Question at the end: Am I doing the right thing?
I recently got funding approval from the spouse to make some significant tool purchases – had a pantry cabinet quoted at $4500, said I could do it for a lot less… “if only I had a few tools.”
So I figured I could upgrade my 10″ Delta contractor’s saw with an Incra TS-III rip fence, a 2000 Mitre gauge and a link belt. Bought a Jet 16″ drill press and used the Green Tag deal to put a 16″ Jet band saw on order. Also bought a nice Incra drill press table and fence.
Then I started reading up on how to fine tune the table saw, and when I finally took an educated look at my saw, discovered the motor is direct-mounted on the arbor like a benchtop saw, the throat plate is stamped steel that flexes a lot under my thumb and does not look replaceable with a zero-clearance plate, and the table is only 22″ deep.
I had thought about using the band saw on this project to cut red oak 1x4s down for edge banding on my 3/4″ red oak plywood. Also there are a couple of curves I might want to cut for tilt-out drawers.
But after this table saw enlightenment, I figure I need to replace it more than I need a band saw. The only downside for this project is that I’ll waste more wood in the kerf making that edge banding, and I might have to use a scroll saw for curves. But I’m thinking it will pay off a lot more to have a decent table saw. I can wait for the project that really calls for a band saw, get it quoted, and go back to the wife 😉
So I’m calling Woodcraft and telling them to cancel the bandsaw and replace it with the Jet 10″ contractor’s saw with cast iron wings. By sticking with Jet, I can retain the $100 cash back. The store is also being generous with an additional discount to stay competitive with Amazon, which is offering $25 off with no shipping or tax, plus the same Jet green tag offer.
I have heard some back and forth about Grizzly vs. Jet in this price range. With the store discount and Jet rebate, I suppose it works out to about $675 for the Jet saw.
So what I’m wanting to hear is that (1) I am correct in that I need a real TS, not a junk TS with band-aids all over it, more than I need a new band saw, and (2) The deal I’m getting on the Jet TS is the best value compared to a Griz at no discount.
Or you can tell me I’m all wrong. I can take it.
🙂
Replies
Hey bud,
With a $4500 budget, I could build a pretty darn nice pantry cabinet, with nothin but a few hand tools, non of which are probably less than 60 years old.
Try getting a subscription to Playboy . Trust me, Playboy is way better than the latest issue of toolcrib.
Edited 2/9/2004 10:39:18 PM ET by izac
Proje -
There are those that would, and will, dissagree with me but looking back on my tool purchasing history, I think I would have been wiser to purchase the band saw before the table saw, cabinet, contractor or otherwise. That's based on the kind of work I was doing at the time and over some years. In some ways, I consider a well tuned band saw more versatile than a table saw, But then I don't use the table saw to cut dadoes, tenons and such that others might.
Given that you *have* a table saw, albeit somewhat less than what you might desire, seeing that you got permission to add to your shop "furniture", I'd go with your original decision and get the band saw. Once you get into the flow, it shouldn't take too much to convince the finance department that a table saw would even further advance the cause of home projects! (grin)
A word to the side, though ..... it's been my experience that buying all the tools necessary to save on the cost of custom case work for the house doesn't always pan out economically (hehehe)
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
Proje,
I am a proponent of the band saw. I do more than 90% of my ripping on it. But as much as I prefer it for work that most others would do on the "other" machine, a good TS is a necessity.
You might squeeze the equipment out of that budget by going with a 14" band saw from grizzly rather than a 16" from Jet. Then you could also get an "economy" TS from Grizzly that would still be magnitudes better than your present "toy TS." Grizzly equipment is excellent for the money spent. Especially at the budget you are working on.
VL
Proje,
I struggled with the same BS verses TS for about a year....made my decision to go with the TS 15 months ago. About a month ago I finally bought a BS.
I went from a Skill table top to a Grizz 1023s....words cannot describe the difference...the accuracy, versatility, power....of course, some of the thrill is gone too (balancing a big piece of ply on the Skill with little space in front of the blade). I had looked very seriously at the Jet 16 or maybe even the 18" BS...very nice.
What kept ringing in my ears was nearly everyone's comment..."the TS is the heart of your workshop"....and I think it's pretty true....however, I think the workbench competes very effectively for the heart position.
Anyhow, this year I took a look at the BS again and realized I did not need as big a machine ..and Rockler has a sale on the Delta 14" 28-206 for a net of $409....down from $559....great little BS. It does all the curves and resaws to meet my needs.
IMHO, the TS really changes your attitude...it ups the quality factor and you just insist on better outcomes. I'm using hand tools a lot more now because the TS has given me the opportunity to do nice stuff....crazy isn't it?
I went with the TS for now because it does seem to fit both my immediate and longer-term WWing activities. Right now I'm still at the amateur carpenter stage, meaning I'll be building shelf units and plywood boxes for the time being. I do have aspirations of being a maker of fine sawdust one day... turning rough lumber into solid wood furniture. As I progress toward that goal, the hand tools, the band saw, the jointer and planer will be added to the collection. How quickly that happens depends upon the WAF (wife acceptance factor), which is driven in part by how much she likes this pantry she's getting :)
The one mistake I made in purchasing tools was to get the best darn bandsaw I could afford. I would use it more often. It is safer than a table saw. Mind you I have a nice 1948 Rockwell 14 incher, but it just doesn't have the power or the rigidity to do some things.
Regards,
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
There seems to be a large contingent of WWers who put the BS first over the TS. What I don't understand is how these folks square up a panel, cut shelf dados, long miter cuts, etc. I'm sure there are a lot of BS techniques out there that would amaze me... although I still can't see how you can live without a good TS.
I don't use my bandsaw enough. Mine basically sits there until there is a cut that I can't do on a TS. The table is way to small; the bandaw support arm limits the size of pieces you can cut; the miter guage is cheezy; the fence is really cheezy compared to a Beis; they are underpowered.
That having been said, the are the safest tool in my shop, the blades last forever, and there are just some cuts that can only be done on a bandsaw. Wish mine was bigger. Sigh.
Regards,
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
Make darn sure she likes it a lot and you'll be in tall cotton for a long time to come!!
Enjoy!
Macl
Hi,
The TS is hands down the best option of the two for general purpose cabinet work. After 30 years of cabinet work, I recently purchased an inexpensive ($355) Grizzly G0555 14" BS with riser and I have greatly expanded my capabilities, particularly with resawing veneers. Bottom line, you can get a Grizzly 10" Cabinet Saw and a 14" BS for $1,400. The Incra fences, are, IMHO are incredibly over-priced and over- designed for woodworking, and that money could be better spent to expand your range of tools. $4,500 is a nice problem to have and for that amount you can completely outfit a shop with very functional equipment, including a good selection of handtools. You didn't mention a router and I think most would agree that routers are an essential part of even a sparsely equipped workshop.
Doug
Doug,
Actually I have a pretty nice DeWalt 2 1/4 hp fixed/plunge router, along with a Bench Dog router tabletop & fence for which I have yet to build a cabinet. I have some dado bits and some roundover bits, haven't yet bought the flush trim or rabbet bits. I just got a 4' Tru-Grip Pro clamp guide with a router base plate, thinking that it will be a lot easier and more accurate way of cutting the shelf dados than on the TS.
I also have a DeWalt 12" sliding compound miter saw, mostly for decks, fencing, flooring, etc. Now that I'll have a real TS and a decent miter fence, I will likely do all my critical cuts on the TS.
I couldn't help the Incra fence bit. I'm a gadget freak and couldn't resist ;)
You might want to check out the new Delta 36-655 saw, if it is available in the US. It has recently been introduced here in Canada for a price of C$ 899, which I suspect would translate to about $650 -$700 US. I think it has been designed to compete with the Jet and Dewalt hybrid saws, as the motor hangs directly under the table. It sits on a base much like the Unisaw, has cast iron wings, a good fence and a 1 3/4 horse motor. It also includes 30" rip to the right and 24" to the left, and a utilitarian miter gauge extension with a sliding stop for cutoffs. The only picture I've been able to find on Delta's site, by searching on the model number, is the cover of the French instruction manual.
For the price, it is an impressive offering. I have inspected this saw at a local hardware store in Ottawa, but have yet to speak to anyone who has purchased it, or seen any reviews in the woodworking press.
Regards,
Ron in Ottawa
Go with a good TS, you won't believe the difference over your old saw, and sheet goods for those cabinets are a lot easier on the TS then the BS. Get a good BS when you can too, but TS first. Tough to cut dados on a BS.
I've been contimplating which BS to get to upgrade my 14" Delta, and consensus seems to be for the MiniMax saws. They are selling their 16" saw for a pretty good price now, and it seems to be the best saw in that size range out there. If you choose to go with the BS, might want to check it out.
Go with the Grizzly G1023SL or G1023SLX once you have it you'll realize the $100 is chump change over the long haul.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/item.cfm?ItemNumber=G1023SL
http://www.grizzly.com/products/item.cfm?ItemNumber=G1023SLX
It does look like a good saw, and I've heard good things about it. Not sure where you get the $100 though - the Jet contractor's saw (w/cast iron wings) ended up costing me about $615, and the G1023SL is $970 after freight. I figure even a decent contractor's saw will be a quantum leap over what I had. And I can spend the difference on clamps, hand tools, dust collection...
proje
(1) Table-saw----(2) Bandsaw!!
Regards...
sarge..jt
Proud member of the : "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Another thought is you not just planning to make this 1 project with your new saw are you?
So get a saw made for the long haul. I am just telling you what I wish someone had told me before I purchased my saw.
Buy a cabinet saw & buy once never to replace it again.
There are a lot of proponents of both bandsaws and tablesaws, as you can see. You wouldn't really go wrong with either. I have been very happy with my Jet contractor tablesaw, and my Delta 14" BS.
However, it seems you have some cabinets to build. For that particular project, a tablesaw with a long fence and outfeed table will probably be more useful to you than a 16" bandsaw for ripping sheet goods.
Regards,
Dan
I enjoy having a bandsaw. But I have been woodworking for over 50 years, and got my first bandsaw just a year or two ago. I use it mostly for resawing and play (bandsaw boxes), this still isn't an essential tool for the way I make furniture and cabinets.
For cabinets, a precision saw is important - very straight cuts, parallel sides, right angles, etc. in relatively large sheet goods or fairly large boards. For my way of working, that screams table saw, or at least a good radial arm saw. (Most of my woodworking has been on a RAS, but today I use both, and would choose the table saw if I could only have one.)
So my vote is clearly for a good-size table saw - 10 inch blade (replace the one that comes with the saw), good rip fence, and at least 24 inches rip width. ________________________Charlie Plesums Austin, Texashttp://www.plesums.com/wood
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