Replies

1. 
   bones | May 30, 2008 08:51pm | #1

   My Grizzly 1023 is great no issues. 

   Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases:
   If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it.
   And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
   
2. 
   philip_r | May 30, 2008 10:52pm | #2

   Can you tell us what your current setup looks like?  Pics are great.  What DC setup are you using?  Any idea what the CFM rating is?

   Almost any cabinet saw with an overhead collector/guard will do the trick.  If your current PM has an open base... have you tried to close it in?

1. 
   lynnroy | May 31, 2008 04:53am | #3

   I have a cyclone, over blade dust collection.  If you are advocating an over blade dust collector - you are either a salesman, company rep or someone that does not do alot of woodworking.  They are more trouble than they are worth.  If you are not a serious woodworker do not answer my questions.   

1. 
   philip_r | May 31, 2008 10:10am | #4

   ... Seriously?... you gett'n snappy... grumpy-pants?  I'm going to type my response to you    r e a l l y    s l o w    so you can understand me.

   (first, let me say that I have never been rude to anyone on this forum- until now)

   What kind of question is "Are there any Cabinet Saws with good dust collection?" Um, yea, I'm pretty sure there are a few out there... 

   Then you ask "My Powermatic65 is not very effective at dust collection but it is still accurate and a dream to work with."  On this saw, when was the last time you changed the "oil" and checked the "spark plugs"? 

   Your profile indicates you are a "beginner"... and it is you, not me, that needs help.  In the future, you should show some respect to the others on this forum... particularly when they are trying to assist you.  Show some class.

   You should include detail as to your current setup so others may provide relevant information. 

   What kind of DC do you currently have? (I'm guessing a cyclone trash can lid and a shop vac)

   If you have a "real" cyclone - how long is your run? 

   Do you have 85 feet of duct work with fourteen 360 degree bends?

   Have you turned your "cyclone" on?

   What size port?

   How many HP's does your "cyclone" have?

   How many tools are hooked up to it?

   Are your blast-gates open?

   What is the cfm at the saw? (Can you spell cfm and do you know what it is?) 

   Do you have a blade guard with DC?  If so, what kind?

   PM65 is a open stand contractor saw, is it not?  If so, have you enclosed the base to improve your collection? 

   You should provide a detailed description of your dust problem and let everyone know what your collection expectations are. If not, we will have to leave it up to our imaginations...  

   Oh, and for the record -

   I am not a sales rep (check my profile)

   My hobby is woodworking (15 years)

   I am not a beginner

   I have a Jet 1.5 HP Canister DC - attached to a 3 HP SawStop 

   I DO NOT have any dust problems!  But then again, I'm not a "serious" woodworker :0)

    

   Have a fabulous day,

   T

1. 
   dgreen | May 31, 2008 11:26am | #5

   It's plainly obvious you are not a serious woodworker! You don't have 4 smoothers, two jointers,three rabbet planes and three spokeshaves you can't use!

   I must not know what I'm doing either, my cyclone and blade guard collector also work just fine on my Unisaw. I wonder what we are doing wrong to have such success?

   I wonder if the reason he has 4 smoothers is the same reason he has 3 spokeshaves, can't make it work better buy another one?

   Maybe he'll buy another tablesaw he can't get to work right, it will make an impressive addition to his collection.------------------------------------

   It would indeed be a tragedy if the history of the human race proved to be nothing more than the story of an ape playing with a box of matches on a petrol dump. ~David Ormsby Gore

2. 
   lynnroy | May 31, 2008 10:05pm | #9

   Just as I thought.  A jerk.

1. 
   philip_r | Jun 01, 2008 12:06am | #10

   Now you did it... you went and ruined my whole day!  First, you say 'I'm not a serious woodworker... then I'm a sales man... and now I'm a jerk'.  Are you always this loving when people try to help you out?  Are you mad because you just figured out where to put the spark plugs?

   Advice on this forum is free!  You can take it or leave it - but you should always treat people with respect.  Your profile says your 63 - everyone reading this post would appreciate it if you acted like it.

   I think someone needs a hug!

2. 
   potomac | Jun 01, 2008 05:39am | #11

   As a concientious ? observer/sometimes objector, I declare you the hands down winner. You also sound like a nice guy, so don't even waste your time or energy. This has inspired a new carving, "rudy".
   Let em suck dust
   John

3. 
   PADDYDAHAT | Jun 01, 2008 06:27am | #12

   T, maybe we can reclaim the ethic of the primary question. I am in the midst of rebuilding a 1985 Unisaw and have already figured that the factory patch on the rear base board @2x4" that fits the 5" duct tin from the factory does not work as the bottom of those saws is the floor.

   I removed the base , installed a sturdy sheet metal floor on top of the base, reinstalled the base, installed a "new" metal motor cover with gasket and am now contemplating where to cut a 5" or 6" DC port in the lower case, either lower right past the motor cover or lower right on the out feed side.

   Another consideration is the louvered access door on the infeed side of the case. Should it be blocked or does it provide the flow thru required for proper DC to the exhaust port?  One must also consider the leakage under the table top but little from the zero clearance insert unless I cut some holes in it.

   These early saws have no "dust chute" -a simple u channel against the front wall -so they need help to remove the dust. Paddy

4. 
   Dave45 | Jun 01, 2008 04:43pm | #14

   Paddy -

   Try leaving the louvers open.  DC systems operate by moving a lot of air pretty quickly and sealing up the cabinet may actually reduce the airflow which would carry the dust to the port.

5. 
   philip_r | Jun 02, 2008 01:40am | #15

   I think everyone else has way better advice than I do... but I'll take a stab at it.  If I were trying to retro-fit a table saw, I would want to do two things:

   I don't always turn on my DC when making a cut or two.  Therefore, I would want to build some sort of ramp that could direct the saw dust to the dust port.

   Maximize my collector's CFM by allowing air a reasonable amount of air to move through the table.  Typically, 3 or 4 hundred CFM is recommended.

   If you seal the cabinet too much, you will likely end up air-starving your collector - thus reducing its effectiveness.  With that said, there is also a flip side - too much openness will also reduce the effectiveness of your DC - as is the case with most open-based hybrids.  Good luck!

6. 
   nazard | Jun 02, 2008 04:10am | #16

   T,

   I have COPD so dust collection has become a serious (that dreaded word again) aspect of my woodworking.  Several recent changes to my setup have made a significant improvement.  I had been running a 4" line to my Unisaw with a 2 1/2 to the overhead guard.  I had partially blocked off open spaces around the saw's cabinet. Increasing the line to 5" and the overhead to 4" made a major difference.  After reading your post,  opening the cabinet back up was another plus.  Thanks!

   Someone a few months back posted that directing a jet of compressed air at the front of the blade just below the table would clear the blade's gullets of sawdust.  I haven't gone quite that far yet, but would be interested to hear more about it. 

   Best!

   -Jerry

2. 
   nazard | May 31, 2008 12:07pm | #6

   "I have a cyclone, over blade dust collection.  If you are advocating an over blade dust collector - you are either a salesman, company rep or someone that does not do alot of woodworking.  They are more trouble than they are worth.  If you are not a serious woodworker do not answer my questions. "  

   That was uncalled for.  Do you seriously expect anyone on this forum to answer your questions after making a post like that?  The purpose of the Knots forum is for free exchange of ideas and information, not insults.

   -nazard

    

3. 
   jointerman | Jun 02, 2008 07:56am | #17

   WOW! lynnroy, how about an apology to all of us here on the forum? That was quite the rude response.

1. 
   user-1119429039 | Jun 02, 2008 03:57pm | #18

   Everyone in this thread,

   Too much nastiness and name calling.  Thanks to those who tried to calm things down. But we have to shut down this discussion.

   David HeimManaging EditorFineWoodworking.Com

3. 
   Dave45 | May 31, 2008 05:08pm | #7

   In your profile, you say that your Powermatic 65 is an "older" model and that may be part of the problem.

   Although it's been around for a while, small shop/hobbyist dust collection is relatively new and tools specifically designed for effective dust collection are even newer.  A dust port in the enclosure under a cabinet saw really isn't all that effecient.  It's really just a way to contain the sawdust and only some of it will actually get removed by your DC system.  Newer saws have a shroud around the blade and seem to be much more effective.

   Another consideration is your DC system.  There's a ton of literature about small shop DC and you might want to do some research.  Everybody's situation is a little different, but generally speaking, you want the largest diameter duct you can get, the smoothest walls, minimum turns/bends, and the shortest possible run between the tool and the DC.

1. 
   philip_r | May 31, 2008 06:33pm | #8

   Snap and double-snap.

   Okay, sorry... I'm done.

   T

4. 
   Knotscott | Jun 01, 2008 02:49pm | #13

   The DC effectiveness of any tool is largely dependent on the dust collection system itself....the DC unit, the ducting, leaks, length, bends, etc, plus throat plates and blade used all make a difference. No doubt, some saws are better than others...take a look inside to see how steep the dust ramp is, the location of the port opening, and any type of dust shroud, etc....a saw with a relatively flat bottom won't be as effective as one with a steep ramp aimed at the port.