First let me apologize for the dark pictures, the rosewood is not nearly as dark as the pictures make it seem. In these pics it could just as well be ebony.
This is what I call my 875-250 smoother. It has very distinctive Norris #13 lines and my very recognizable single 1/4″ thick iron configuration. It is 8.75 inches long, and features a 2″ wide 0-1 iron ground at 30 degrees. This plane is set up at York pitch (50 degrees) a bit steeper than the original Norris. The sole is 3/8″ precision ground steel and the sides are 3/16″ brass. The infill wood is from the log that I featured in a prior posting. It came into the U.S.A in the 1950s, I’d say it is well seasoned. The mouth was set using a piece of Home Depot receipt paper, I believe this is about .003.
I just finished this plane about 2 hours ago and have already given it a test run and then had to make myself leave the shop and go into the house so I wouldn’t have to sweep up shavings before I quit.(grin)
Thanks for looking,
Ron Brese
Replies
Beautiful, I love seeing the pictures.
Thanks for sharing.
Troy
Ron-
That's enough to give a middle aged man like some serious "wood"
Sean
Ron,
What a beautiful plane! I don't see any dovetails. How is the sole connected to the sides?
Neil
The assembly method I use on my planes is referred to as an integrated rivet. The brass pins are integrated into the sole of the plane and fit thru holes in the plane sides which are counter sinked. The top of the rivet is peined into the counter sink to secure the sides to the sole of the plane. The attachment forces are at right angles to the sole and it makes for an extremely rigid and accurate assembly and an almost invisible attachment method. Actually they are more visible in these pictures than in person.Ron Bresehttp://www.breseplane.comIf you're too open minded your brains will fall out.
How are the rivets integrated into the sole, what holds them. A lovely plane, real nice.
Nicely done Ron. I'm curious: what is done by CNC, power tools, and hand tools? I mention CNC because that's my guess as to how the sole is machined.
Chris @ www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Edited 7/25/2008 1:22 am by flairwoodworks
Chris,There is a judicious amount of machine and hand work involved in a tool of this nature. I do not have cnc machinery. Sometimes we forget there was plenty of good machine work done prior to the arriving of cnc machinery. Having a mill is a tremendous help, however there is still very much a human hand element in creating bespoke tools that include a lot of woodworking elements. What many don't realize is the wooden elements are many times more involved than the metal parts of these type tools. Once all the parts are made then there is a very precarious assembly process that is still required and then there is still the tuning of the plane ahead of you. One can easily amass many hours in a tool.Ron BreseIf you're too open minded your brains will fall out.
Ron,
I think you should do some more photos and show them again- I can't see enough there-very dark. (This time try sweeping away the shavings to below window height to allow more light).
Questions:
You say "precision ground steel" when referring to the sole- to me this is synonomous with O1 oil hardening tool steel flat stock-is this what you are using, or is it a mild steel (non hardening)?
What would you say to the use of Aluminium for the cap of this type of plane and other bespoke types? I mean virgin ali, so it would polish up smoothly.
Is the iron made by you and what do you do about the heat treatment - is it done by a specialist firm?
I think I can detect the makers name on the cap- is it stamped , or fly pressed or what? Are you doing it yourself?
Philip,The sole material is 1018 precision ground bar, using this material helps immensely when it comes time to flatten the sole of the tool. Using this material and paying particular attention to accuracy in assembling the plane body can save one lots of time in the tuning segment of building a tool of this type.For the lever cap I think I would still prefer bronze or brass. Right over the cutting edge is where I want some of the mass that these materials bring to the tool and I think going to aluminum would change the balance that I enjoy in this particular configuration. The lever cap in this tool is made from 1/2" thick brass but my preference is bronze when it is available and affordable. Lately it has not be the latter.I do make my own irons (thanks for asking) and have them heat treated by a mettalurgical company in Atlanta that has state of the art heat treating facilities. I always get consistent results from their work. Lately I have taken to having my irons precision ground by a company that specializes in this type of work. This saves me tremendous amounts of time that had been dedicated to working irons from the state they return from the heat treaters to working sharpness.The one aspect of this tool that is done by cnc machinery is the engraving on the lever cap. I work with a local jeweler this get this work accomplished.Ron BreseIf you're too open minded your brains will fall out.
Hey Ron--another nice one!
I'm looking forward to meeting you in Kentucky this November and seeing the planes in the flesh.
Take care, Mike
Philip - An off-hand opinion from someone that's trained as an engineer, though not in mechanical engineering. I'd have serious reservations about buying a plane with an aluminum lever cap.
There are at least 2 reasons - I've had the unfortunate experience of stripping the threads of the spark plug mount in an aluminum head on an auto engine - the sickening give when tightening the new plugs is enough to make a grown man sink to his knees in the driveway and cry, because it usually means removing the entire top half of the engine and sending it out to have an insert put in to take care of the stripped threads. It doesn't take much force to do this, and I really don't think many users would take to the idea fo having to use a torque wrench to tighten the lever cap screw on their plane to ensure the threads don't strip in a similar manner.
The second reason is metal fatigue. Aluminum is notorious for this, and I'd think there would be significant danger of developing stress cracks in the lever cap near the attachment points after a few years of use.
That said, it might make for a nice piece of shelf jewelry. ;-)
"Philip - An off-hand opinion from someone that's trained as an engineer, though not in mechanical engineering. I'd have serious reservations about buying a plane with an aluminum lever cap".
That means that you would be shy of certain well known popular planes made in Canada?
It depends on the type of ali and the thickness of material at critical points.You would never strip the thread of say 1/2 inch Whitworth properly threaded, certainly never by repeated finger pressure alone, as used on a cap screw. For a well constructed cap system even light finger torque is sufficient to hold the blade firmly.
Don't confuse virgin ali with cast "pot metal", and avoid flying in virtually any aircraft (;).
I made a plane with an ali cap recently mainly for experimental purposes-see it here. You have to admit it looks good, but I still prefer bronze or brass for appearance.
Re your auto engine disaster- you must have been naughty fellow on two counts- firstly not installing plug all the way in finger tight, and then over tightening or failing to notice that you may have cross-threaded .....Something around only 10 or 12 foot pounds is all that is needed (to compress the special washer).Philip Marcou
Philip - I'll admit I've few (though I do own some) of L-V's offerings. I much prefer the looks of L-N's products and the antique Norris and Spiers planes.
And I will not contest that there are a bewildering variety of aluminum alloys (the same can be said of steel and brass). Nevertheless, all alloys with high fractional percentages of aluminum are subject to stress fracturing. This is, as you noted, a problem in aircraft design. A modern jet aircraft must be made primarily of aluminum because of strength and weight ratios (though titanium is an alternative, though frighteningly expensive). Stress fracturing in aluminum is a big problem for the civilian aircraft industry - many millions are spent each year inspecting, x-raying and repairing of cracks. These stress fractures are known to have brought down quite a number of aircraft, one of the more famous of examples being the very early British pressurized aircraft (the dehaviland comet) which disintegrated in mid-air in 1954 after metal fatigue from repeated pressurization/depressurization compromised the structure.
A more recent example is the mid-air removal of the front 4th of the roof and part of the fuselage (with consequent explosive depressurization) of Aloha Airlines flight 243 in 1988.
My concern with a plane made with a lever cap of aluminum is primarily with the attachment points between the cap and sides of the plane. Eventually, the lever cap will stress fracture at this point from the force of the blade back against the cap when planing, it's more a matter of "when" not "if". Given that's the case, I don't understand wanting to use aluminum for this purpose when there are no significant advatanages to be gained (after all, most of us that buy a high-end smoother want a heavier plane, not a lighter one).
Thanks Ron,
Drooled another keyboard into oblivion. The IT guys are getting upset!
The plane is another WOA.
Is this the first one from the rosewood log?
-Chuck
Thanks Chuck and everyone else for the comments. Yes this is the first one from that log but it will soon be joined by others that I have in process that will also utilize this infill material. This is not the easiest material to work and is one of the hardest to plane woods that I have run into. Fortunately I have the necessary tools to make it behave. I'm finding the 55 degree pitched planes with tight mouth openings to be the tool of choice for this material.I have also traced the journey of this log back and found another log. To say I was excited to find another log from this source would be an understatement. To make a long story short I bought the other log.Ron BreseIf you're too open minded your brains will fall out.
Ron,
I think what little is left of my brains just fell out. Not from being open minded but from dehydration! Thank Gawd I don't have to deal with an IT department as does Chuck.
Another gem and that wood is beautiful. I don't have any money so ya wann swap something? OK, gotta go get my lottery tickets.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Hey Bob,What you got to trade? Last time I got asked that question I ended up with the rosewood log that supplied the infill material for this plane. (grin)Ron Bresehttp://www.breseplane.com "Making Planes Everyday and Loving It"If you're too open minded your brains will fall out.
Edited 7/29/2008 4:02 pm ET by Ronaway
Ron,
What little I might have would pale in comparison to that Rosewood I'm afraid. I do have a Stanley Type3 #3 though........
Sounds like you're making some real progress marketing your wares and that's a great thing. Maybe FWW might want to get an article from you in the mag.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Ron
I notice this isn't listed on your site yet. Is this another of the prototypes or the first "production" model?
If you build it he will come.
Doug,This is the first production plane, a prior customer saw pictures of the prototype (wonder how those got into his inbox? (grin) and ordered this plane with the rosewood infill. I will be adding this plane to the web site this weekend. I was just waiting to finish this plane so as to get pictures.Ron Bresehttp://www.breseplane.comIf you're too open minded your brains will fall out.
Hi Ron
That is just beautiful. I know that the infill is not as dark as it appears, but this just goes to show what a dramatic effect ebony has. Or would have if you used it. What other local timbers give this effect? I saw a tote in Wenge the other day and it was dark and rich.
Now I promise to get to my (Brese kit) plane soon. It has been a little crazy in my neck of the woods - even more so recently - and time has been in short supply.
Regards from Perth
Derek
It has been a little crazy in my neck of the woods
Derek,
As a psychologist, are you allowed to say that? ;)
Cheers,
Lee
Lee
Some days I think that I am at the wrong end of the couch! :)
Regards from Perth
Derek
Derek,I was showing some planes at a Woodcraft Store today in Atlanta and I had a look at some wenge while there, it appears it would make nice infill and would be quite dark. As far as local timbers that might have this effect the only material that comes to mind would be some particularly dark black walnut, which is the material I put in the prototype of this plane.I hope you find time to complete your kit. I'm interested to see what you do with it and besides I think you will enjoy that little plane immensely once it is set to making shavings. I use the prototype of that plane everyday and I get great pleasure from it's use.Ron BreseIf you're too open minded your brains will fall out.
Ron,
Maybe you already know but Wenge is also known as Panga Panga when it comes form Mozambique and surrounding area. I have both of them - strangely enough I found some 2 inch billets of Wenge right here in NZ.
I confirm that it makes mighty fine tool handles and plane totes, but I would be wary using it as infill because it not the most stable of timbers- it may just walk right out of the plane.
If you are looking for another darkish, rich timber you could consider Imbuia, which comes from next door to you there on the southern island (;). Since you mentioned a need for lightness in weight this wood is relatively light (less than Walnut), and can be found in many colours, in the same board. The curly stuff looks like burr walnut, but better I think.Philip Marcou
That's some pretty striking stuff in those pics Philip, I will investigate. The aluminum does look to polish up nicely, but like you I prefer brass for mass right over the cutting edge at least until bronze becomes affordable once again. I did notice bit of a weight difference between the prototype infilled with walnut and the first production plane infilled with rosewood, however they are both very well balanced tools and I think the weight ratio to iron width is very comfortable, the tool is very pleasurable in use if I say so myself. I really enjoy the 8" and shorter smoothing planes but sometimes I think the balance is just a bit better on a slightly longer sole length. I'm thinking this is an opportunity for more refinement in regards to the shorter sole length planes.Ron BreseIf you're too open minded your brains will fall out.
Ah, Imbuia. One of my favorite woods.
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The owner may or may not chime up in the thread, but he's one of my all-time favorite Knots posters...
Take care, Mike
Indeed yes- and it is a pity that folk can't smell that delightful scent that Imbuia has.... definitely a good way to start off the day when working this wonderful timber.
As a matter of interest: the groove for the thumb-are you doing this by hand or routing or a combination? (In the absence of a dedicated handle making machine I would want to be using an overhead pin router machine), or finding out about cnc stuff....
The customer? What a sterling fellow!Philip Marcou
Edited 7/27/2008 4:44 pm by philip
Hi Philip,
Yes, the smell is wonderful. I would hate to tell you what it reminds me of the most. It would give away my hippie past...
I do like working it. The first woodworking project I have done for nearly 3 years is a replacement stool (an ex employee broke it. Been in the family for over 100 years, but I digress) made from a wonderful plank I bought when I was making furniture. About 20"+ wide, 9' or so long and a healthy 2 1/4" thick. QS, no heart and just a touch of sapwood one one side. Lovely plank.
The thumb groove and the finger groove on the side one cannot see in the pictures are done with various tools, depending on which one of use is making the No.9 handle. My youngest and I use a wide gouge and with a few quick swoops rough it out. Then a couple large curved F. Dick vintage rifflers and it is ready for the sanding. In all, it doesn't take long. The No.9 handles are fully shaped by hand.
We do have several styles that are a blended (machine/hand) shaping process. Truth be told, it isn't faster for the first 3-4 handles. At least for the youngest son. But over the span of several days (he and I did 100 handles last week) wasting some of the material via machinery makes it easy enough for him to take over for further shaping and refinement.
Yes, sterling is apt. Heck, a local newspaper did an interview with us a few months ago and he was kind enough to talk with the good lady.
Take care, Mike
Mike,The design of that saw handle is enticing to say the least. It makes one want to reach into the picture, grab hold and then gently squeeze it so as to feel it's texture. Droooooll, another soggy keyboard.Some have emailed and asked when I would add the new 875 plane to my web page. It is there as of now on the Full Size Smoothing planes page, just scroll down.Thanks,Ron Bresehttp://www.breseplane.comIf you're too open minded your brains will fall out.
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