Replies

1. 
   EdHarrison | Apr 06, 2006 12:36am | #1

   I don't understand the question, but I'm interested in how well it works and what your observations are,...I'm a big fan of the #80, and am interested in acquiring a 112 somewhere down the line.  I think if you've got the bevel straight and at 45 degree, you're there!  I usually sharpen the bevel with a mill file with the blade in a bench vice.  I guage the 45 degrees by eyeball because I don't want to make a science project out of it and I want to get to scraping wood.  I wan't to feel that mill file cutting metal and I want to see metal filings and see a nice clean flat bevel in the course of a minute or two with the mill file.  Then I take the blade out of the vice and rub it on a couple stones a little with my homemade cutting oil (secret recipe), both on the flat side and on the bevel.  Maybe a medium india and then a translucent arkie - but once again it's gotta be quick - I refuse to make a science project out of this deal!  Then you roll the hook a little bit with a burnisher or screwdriver shank and away you go!

   BTW - I know this not because I'm smart or anything - but because some guy - maybe Scott Grandstaff? I can't remember - wrote a treatise on scraper-ology a while back in the old tools mail list.  His whole point was to demystify everything.

   I'm confident enough in my technique and confident enough that I can make those lace-like scraper shavings that it doesn't matter how tough the wood is.  Birdseye Maple?  Bring it!  I will take it on!

    

    

2. 
   Telemike | Apr 06, 2006 05:27am | #2

   I like the 112 sharpened with a slight crown. I'd grind it with a straight edge perpendicular to the sides. Then, when honing the edge (at 45 degrees), I'd alternately put extra pressure first on one edge, then another. It's like crowning a finishing plane blade. Only a few thousandths of an inch.

   I don't care for the 112 all that much. I find that the #80 is the most useful wood smoothing tool I have, especially for wood that doesn't plane very well. When I win the lotto, I'm going to buy the Veritas version of the handled scraper. The wider sole would seem to be an advantage over the #80 which can be hard to start smoothly on the edge of a board.

1. 
   highfigh | Apr 06, 2006 09:40pm | #4

   If you want to save time in honing, look at the Taunton book on sharpening handtools. One article shows that the author placed a small square of material (metal, IIRC) on the face of the surface that the iron is pressing against, and by leaving the center alone, when the screw is tightened, it creates a curve in the iron. The more the screw is tightened, the more it curves.For starting at the edge of a board, have you tried skewing the scraper? If you have and still have a hard time, maybe scraping from the center toward the end will help.To me, the #80 seems like it would be a bit more stable since the handles are a little wider and lower, am I right? The #112 and 112 1/2 are about 10 1/2" wide, I think.
   "I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."

3. 
   derekcohen | Apr 06, 2006 12:45pm | #3

   It has a 28 tooth blade

   This blade is called a Toothing Blade and is used for scraping a rough surface on the wood to enable glue to adhere.

   I have reservations whether the other end of the blade, the previously curved end, will hold an edge since it probably was not hardened for this purpose.

   I have a LN "Stanley Replacement" blade in my Stanley #112. This is much thicker than the original Stanley scraper blade, and the stiffness is a boon in reducing chatter.

   To prepare one of these blades I prefer to grind it to a 30 degree angle (not the common 45 degrees) since this gets "sharper" (more correctly, it has better penetration). I also use it without a burr (unlike the #80 which, as it has a fixed-angle bed, needs to be used with a burr).

   The essential element in honing a scraper blade is that you treat it as if it were a blade for a smoothing plane. This means the edge must be smooth. Whatever you have on the edge will transfer itself to the wood. Thus it is possible to have a sharp (= serrated) edge and get a rough surface. I hone my scraper blades to 8000 waterstone. If I were adding a burr, I use a proper burnisher, not a screwdriver shaft, which is unlikely to be smooth or hard enough, and never a file! The last feature for the #112 blade is to remove the corners so as to avoid tracks.

   I much prefer the #112 to a #80. The #80 is actually very easy to use, but I find that the bowed blade (used to increase the depth of cut) can leave fine hollows in the wood surface. My 2 #80s are reserved for removing glue lines.

   Regards from Perth

   Derek

1. 
   Patto | Apr 07, 2006 06:09am | #5

   Derek,

   Dont have a 112 (tool budget this year is taking the boys to NZ for a band trip - oh well) but do have the repro lee valley #80. I used it last year to finish a small Blakely's red gum slab. It did need regular touching up to keep sharp on that timber, but what a find.

   dave

1. 
   derekcohen | Apr 07, 2006 08:45am | #6

   Dave

   You do not need to feel deprived in regard to the #112. At the risk of sounding like I am contradicting my earlier statement, I actually use my #80 more (I have heard very good things about the LV #80 but have not used one, and Have a Stanley and a Kunz).

   The thing is that I rarely use a scraper plane for smoothing difficult grain since my handplanes generally do an excellent job. My #112 rarely even gets used these days. I work mainly in very hard and grainy Australian woods, and high cutting angles are required. Planes like the HNT Gordon range, with 60 degree bevel down beds, were designed specifically with this issue in mind. Incidentally, since these planes have a 30 degree bevel, reversing them in the plane creates a fantastic scraper plane. The best I have used.

   When you are "fixing" a small section of tearout (as opposed to smoothing a large area), I would prefer the #80 over the #112. This because the bowed blade of the #80 can better target specific sections.

   After chisels, my favourite woodworking tool is a card scraper. I much prefer using a card scraper to my #112 when smoothing large, tear out prone areas (that my planes do not manage), and my technique minimizes the risk of burnt thumbs!. Using a card scraper is a good illustration of the cutting differences between the #112 and the #80: To smooth an area I pull the card scraper towards myself. This has the effect of bending the blade the least and keeping the edge flat on the surface. To scrape a small section of tearout, I will push the card scraper away, since this action forces the thumbs to bow the blade, which acts more like a scoop.

   So if you are using the #80 to smooth a large area, try not to bow the blade too much.

   Regards from Perth

   Derek

1. 
   Patto | Apr 10, 2006 06:36am | #8

   understood, but the 112 looks cool.

   A mate of mine did a bit of mix and match with various irons and chip breakers on some od stanleys. I think he finished up with a number 5 with a bevel up blade (chip breaker was from a different plane so he could set it back far enough. 45* bed + the bevel angle gave an effective cutting angle of say 75*. He says this was very effective on the redgum and much more in his budget than one of Hank gordons planes (he had all the bits for the set up in a box).

   Dave

4. 
   EdHarrison | Apr 07, 2006 03:05pm | #7

   I originally misinterpreted your question about the #112 as being about the #12 - I guess they use the same blade.

   I occasionally make a new scraper blade out of a used-up Disston saw blade (pre-WW II), if I can get a part of it where the taper grind doesn't affect the thickness very much.  I don't know what the hardness of the steel is on the Rc scale, and I don't polish it to mirror finish, but I know exactly what it feels like when I file it, and it seems just "right" for scraper blades.

   I don't know if I am bowing the blade too much or not enough in an academic understanding of scraper-ology, but I will say that I can get nearly full-width shavings with the #80  and they are so thin that the individual variations in grain "telegraph" through to the scraper shavings.  I have used the technique on large flat surfaces such as desktops, bench tops, and the raised panels of doors, to good effect.

   This spring I plan to start building a sailboat, which will be the third one I've built in my life, but the first one in which handtools in the American tradition get a big play - I'm sure the #80's and various shapes of card scrapers will get frequent use.

   Good luck, Ed