Replies

1. 
   user-83153 | Oct 21, 2007 04:40pm | #1

   This schedule works well. The process takes more than one step.

   http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/htdocs/mission_oak.htm

1. 
   WillGeorge | Oct 21, 2007 06:06pm | #2

   Or get better lighting!

2. 
   flake | Oct 23, 2007 02:59am | #5

   Appreciate the link and info. I am still unsure how the old phone box has rays that are a different color to the surrouding wood.  If I understand correctly a dye is going to color all wood while a pigment stain is not going to shade the denser ray areas.

1. 
   user-83153 | Oct 23, 2007 03:20am | #6

   The idea behind Jewitt's method is that you use a fairly light colored dye to establish a background color and go over that with a darker pigment stain to color the wood outside of the rays.

   The dye will color everything, but the rays (being denser) will still be lighter than the surrounding wood. The pigment stain, which colors using tiny grains of solid pigment, will lodge in the open pores of the surrounding wood and, to a lesser extent, in the rays, provided it is wiped off properly. This combination will give a pretty significant contrast between the two.

   It would help to know what color (colors) you are trying to achieve in your finished piece.

            Rob

   
2. 
   SteveSchoene | Oct 21, 2007 09:37pm | #3

   You want the flakes to pop.  Therefore you want to use a stain that does not include dye, but is pigment only--a true wiping stain.  (By the way, the fume oak mission finish was designed so the flakes didn't pop.  Using dye as a first step also tends to reduce the pop.)  You may also want to sand to a bit finer grit (perhaps as much as 320) than usual so that the harder flake material captures less pigment. 

   Finding stain that is only pigment is a challenge since some lines have colors that are pigment only and some that are pigment plus dye.  After a stain has had enough time to settle the pigment look at the liquid in the top of the can.  If this is nearly clear and won't color a wood sample then it doesn't contain dye, if the liquid is tinted and will color wood without stirring up pigment from the bottom then the stain includes a dye. 

   You can make your own stain by mixing japan colors, artists oil paints, or even dry pigment into some oil based varnish and thinning to a workable consistency.  If you want a longer working time, that will also increase the curing time before applying the topcoats, add some boiled linseed oil to the mix. 

    

    

1. 
   flake | Oct 23, 2007 03:24am | #7

   I believe all the stains I have are a mix of dye and pigment. I primarily use lacquer base stains (ML Campbell- Wood Song stains). Does anyone have an opinion about lacquer base stains? I know I like how fast they dry. I have tried one of ML C. new Minwax match stains and compared it side by side with the true  oil based Minwax stain and could not tell any difference.

1. 
   user-83153 | Oct 23, 2007 05:44am | #8

   I was wondering how to tell which stains are pigment only so I looked at Flexner's book (amazing how often I consult that book!) to see what he had to say. It seems that the only way to tell if a stain is pigment only, pigment and dye or dye only, is to open it up when it has settled and test it with a paint stick. You put the stick down to the bottom and try to shovel up some pigment. If you get a pretty clear stick with a scoop of pigment on it, you have pigment only. A scoop of pigment and a colored stick is pigment and dye, etc. You can have three different shades of the same brand of stain and each one might be a different type.

   So if someone wants to keep track of every can they buy and make a list of what is what that would be cool. A pain in the ####, but cool. Another way is to only use gel stains when you want a pigment only stain. According to Flexner, "Nearly all gel stains are pigment only".

   I just got done with an arts & crafts style fireplace surround that I finished with a dilute coat of dark mission brown Transtint, shellac washcoat, and Valspar premium dark walnut gel stain followed by thinned McCloskey heirloom semi-gloss varnish (wiped on) and there is a significant difference between the rays and the surrounding wood.

3. 
   PeteBradley | Oct 21, 2007 10:11pm | #4

   I can't say I'm an expert but I can at least share some actual experience. I've had good luck sanding to 220 or even 320 (which smooths out the flakes so they won't take much pigment), then a light colored water based dye (typically TransTint colonial maple mixed with other TransTint colors) followed by a pigmented gel stain.

   As with all projects and especially with this recipe, test the entire schedule on scraps of the same wood used in the piece and get it right before you commit to the actual piece. Note also that recipes like this and the ones at homestead finishing can be tricky if you're mixing quartersawn parts with flat/plainsawn as pieces with different grain patterns register as a different color to the eye. No problem if it's all QS.

   I'd stay away from homemade recipes on this one. You want whatever goes into the pores to stay there and to dry in a reasonable amount of time.

   Pete

   
   

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   Edited 10/21/2007 3:14 pm ET by PeteBradley

4. 
   PrettyMuchIRock | Oct 25, 2007 04:44am | #9

   I have been using a finish that a fellow woodworker told me. Sand to 150, then apply a thin coat of golden oak stain, then a 2 lb cut of amber shellac, sand, thin coat of brown mah. stain, sand, 1 lb cut amber shellac, sand, another 1 lb cut of the shellac, sand, and two coats of dark liquid wax. I will take a picture of the outcome tomorrow.

5. 
   Shello | Oct 25, 2007 11:56pm | #10

   We've come across the same problem befroe and this is how we solved it (I'm in South Africa so the terms might not be familiar).

   Sanded down to about a 180g. Stained with a penetrating stain (very light - depends on the color you trying to get to). Sprayed on one coat of laquer (kept thick).

   Once 100% dry, sanded with a 220 (basically to get the shine out). Then used a selection of 'fabric paints' mixed to the right color. This was rubbed in and left to dry for a few minutes. The unit then was cleaned of the excess paint with a wet cloth. I ended up doing this twice.

   Once dry a sprayed laquer with a hint of matching stain in the laquer till the color was spot on.

   So far this has worked perfectly. Hope it helps.