Replies

1. 
   WillGeorge | May 01, 2009 02:26am | #1

   Andersen windows .  I have Pella? windows. I called the Mfg. and they went out of their way to offer suggestions.

   Call them.. They 'KNOW' the woods they use. Just me though.

2. 
   SteveSchoene | May 01, 2009 02:36am | #2

   I don't know the product you mention, but the thing I would be concerned about is that protection against moisture comes primarily from the film on the wood and finishes that are just "in-the-wood" have much less capability to protect against moisture.  It's part of the trade off in choosing finishes. 

   What kind of finishing does Andersen specify in order to maintain warranty on the windows?  That's likely the first thing you should check. 

1. 
   2Paul | May 01, 2009 04:05pm | #3

   Steve,

   The Andersen website how-to literature recommends pre-stain sealer, stain, and either varnish, lacquer, or polyurethane for the top coat.

   I called Andersen this morning.  They don't have any recommendations for any "in the wood" type products.

   At this point my plan is to use thinned shellac sanding sealer, followed by Minwax stain. For a topcoat I'll use either Watco Danish oil or a home-made mix of equal amounts of boiled linseed oil, odorless mineral spirits, and polyurethane - which I've read makes a good "wiping varnish".

   My reasearch has led me to understand exactly what you have said - there is a tradeoff between getting protection for the wood and letting the wood surface show.

   Thanks,

   Paul

1. 
   gofigure57 | May 02, 2009 01:54pm | #4

   Paul, 

   Just a side note, I have Andersens throughout my home, double hungs and casements with pine interior sashes on doublehungs / pine stops on casements.

   For ease of finishing I removed the sashes ( no tools required ) as well as the pine stops on the casements ( only tacked on from the factory ) and finished them in the shop. 

   Following re/install of these parts I then applied necessary  ext/jmbs and casing and finished accordingly.  Just my two cents , hope it turns out well for you.

   Tom.

2. 
   HowardAcheson | May 02, 2009 07:50pm | #5

   Both Steve and Anderson do not recommend an in-the-wood finish. Watco Danish Oil or your home brew are both in-the-wood finishes (neither are "wiping varnishes, they are oil/varnish mixtures) and they will not provide much initial or long term protection. Nor will they work if you first apply a shellac like Zinsser SealCoat. Even thinned, the SealCoat partially seals the pores in the wood. Next, the varnish binder in an oil based stain like Minwax will complete the sealing of the wood pores. Once the pores are filled and sealed, an in-the-wood finish will not be able to be absorbed. When you wipe off the excess finish after 15 minutes, you will be wiping off all the finish. If you are going to stain, you want to use a film forming finish that sits on the top surface of the wood. These film finishes are primarily varnishes or poly varnishes. They offer much more protection than an oil/varnish mixture and will last much longer. If you want to wipe on these film finish you can thin the varnish 50/50 with mineral spirits.Howie.........

1. 
   2Paul | May 04, 2009 03:40pm | #8

   Thanks everyone for your input!  My new plan is this process:

   1. Sand with fine sanding pad.

   2. SealCoat (2 parts) mixed with denatured alcohol (3 parts) according to SealCoat spec sheet.

   3. Sand lightly with 000 abrasive pad.

   4. Minwax gel stain or regular stain - I'm still testing colors.

   5. Minwax wipe-on polyurethane satin finish.  It got a great review for water protection in Fine Woodworking July/August 2005, plus I've read that it allows you to maintain a nice hand-rubbed look.

   I did some test pieces of pine last night with everything except the wipe-on poly and they looked good.  The SealCoat does a nice job, but does lighten the stain a little.

   Thanks,

   Paul

2. 
   YesMaam27577 | May 05, 2009 04:13pm | #12

   >>"....protection against moisture comes primarily from the film on the wood and finishes that are just "in-the-wood" have much less capability to protect....."I only agree to an extent.... Some "in the wood" finishes are quite good at resisting moisture. Boiled linseed oil is a great example -- it adds very good water resistance. In fact, it is the primary ingredient in many of the better deck-protection products -- Flood's CWF-UV is one example.Of course, the original poster is thinking about the need for a sealer before staining. And, IMO, any sealer beneath BLO makes the BLO much less effective.And note that I strongly agree with your final bit of advice -- learn and follow the manufacturer's warranty specs.

   Politics is the antithesis of problem solving.

1. 
   SteveSchoene | May 05, 2009 04:46pm | #13

   All the information I have about boiled linseed oil is that it adds virtually no protection against moisture, either as liquid water, or as water vapor.  Worse in some exterior situations it encourages the growth of mildew. 

3. 
   troys | May 02, 2009 08:53pm | #6

   Are you talking about the inside or the outside? Big difference. Take a look at the article about outdoor finishes in the latest issue of FWW. If your going for a non painted finish outdoors your looking at a long term maintenance issue. I have used the boat "varnish" they mentioned and it is a good product. As for staining I would suggest getting some of the same kind of wood and doing some tests pine and fir can be tricky to stain. If your talking about the inside I just did some mahogany windows in my house an I used amber shellac and was pleased with the results.

   Thanks

   Troy

1. 
   SteveSchoene | May 02, 2009 09:11pm | #7

   I have definately been thinking inside window trim on the assumption that the Andersen's are clad on the exterior.  You would have to be more or less insane to be thinking of a clear finish on exterior windows, given the annual or nearly annual maintenance needed except in rare cases.  For the exterior window trim ONLY an opaque finish makes any sense. 

2. 
   2Paul | May 04, 2009 03:43pm | #9

   Troy,

   The inside is being finished.  The outside is vinyl-clad in forest green.

   Thanks,

   Paul

4. 
   BossCrunk | May 04, 2009 04:16pm | #10

   Sikkens Cetol. Accept no substitutes. This stuff is unexcelled.

   
   

   ---

   Edited 5/4/2009 9:17 am ET by BossCrunk

1. 
   2Paul | May 04, 2009 04:39pm | #11

   Boss,

   I've used it on my boat, great stuff, I agree.  However, it did eventually flake off and required a re-application, but that was after over two or three summers exposed to the sun and salt every day. 

   I was originally going to use it but I didn't want an "on the wood" coating (plus it had an orange color to it)  so I started looking elsewhere.  Now that I am back to using a wipe-on poly for interior water protection, I might reconsider.

   Paul