I have been making panels from rough cut for 10+ years and I still feel as if there must be a more efficient way for squaring them up. I was taught in the woodworking program ..
1. Joint one edge grain
2. Use that edge to square first end grain .. cut on bandsaw then clean it up with the jointer
3. Cut both opposite edge/ends with the table saw…unless of course the panel is larger than the table saw fence…
Here I am now, I need some advice. Is there a clean, efficient way for squaring up a panel?
Help me experts with your best secrets on this.
Replies
If you have a GOOD radial arm saw with clean cutting blade and reliable fence then at your step 2 you use that and flip for the opposite end grain, then trim to width or long grain on table saw. But I mean a heavy radial-not one of those light diy types.
A sliding table saw. Big enough to hold the panel. What size panels are you cutting?
Rich
Rich,
I am working on large panels for a kitchen hutch, largest dimensions are 24" x 72".
That's well within the capacity of all but the very smallest sliders. The smallest sliding table on the Hammer line has a 49" travel. The next size up is 78" (the one I have) which is still considered small for these kinds of saws, but would easily handle such panels, and give accuracy beyond your needs.Rich
The $$$ to purchase such a tool is beyond my means.. :)
cross,I was just answering your original question, and the sliding table saw IS the most accurate, most efficient way to do this."Here I am now, I need some advice. Is there a clean, efficient way for squaring up a panel?"Yes, some of these machines are expensive, but for their capabilities, they are worth the money. If one has a need to cut large panels very accurately, and can't achieve that with the equipment on hand, THAT equipment is expensive.But to get back to the original question, I don't think a vertical panel saw was mentioned. Carefully set up and used, that could do the job very well.Also, one of the "track clamping systems," such as the Festool, EZ-Smart or the new Dewalt could probably work well, if you had an accurate, large T-square with which to align it. I have an aluminum dry wall T-Square (from either HD or Lowe) that has a 2' head on a 4' body. It is quite accurate, although I've never measured it for the kind of accuracy needed for squaring panels. It could be adjusted, if needed with some effort. Or a suitable one could be made.I would seriously look at one of these systems, especially the EZ-Smart.EDIT - I see from another thread that you just bought a Unisaw. I don't know what table saw you were using before, but you should be able to do all your panel squaring on that fine beast.Rich
Edited 11/24/2008 10:47 am ET by Rich14
cc, You can spend as much as you wish or as little , it's what you know that counts not what you have . Goodness sakes you are talking about one panel here and not an ongoing mass production .
If your TS is set up in a good sized table a crosscut sled may be your answer , I usually cut the end on my RAS and flip it to complete the cut my saw comes out about 16" or so . You can joint the end of a panel , it will be housed in a frame and the end grain will not show .Use a skill saw or a sled or even cut almost to the line and I use my edge sander sometimes .
Tip : when jointing the end grain sand or chisel a small bevel on the edge of the wood where it goes through last to prevent tear out .
This is not rocket science stay safe but get the job done with what you have and know the wood won't know the difference , and when you are done we won't either .
dusty , I sand therefore I am
Sorry, no secret. It's just as Rich says - the right tool for the job is a real table saw, that is, a saw with a sliding table.
David Ring
http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e
44255.4 in reply to 44255.1
Sorry, no secret. It's just as Rich says - the right tool for the job is a real table saw, that is, a saw with a sliding table
I have no REAL table saw that works for me.. Wish I had the space and money for one. I REALLY DO! I have a add on slider but it would not count by your standards.
Just funnin' ya a bit. No hate here...
I have several cross-cut sleds of different sizes. If it will not fit my add on slider I use one of my sleds. I can cut perfect squares IF I pay attention to what I am doing!
WOW! do I detect a touch of snobbery here? Save that stuff for the golf course and the car shows. We are all craftsmen here, just at different levels. I would venture to say that Maloof and Krenov, Marks and others could build just as high quality pieces without a "real" table saw, or using some lower value line saw.
I don't think it's snobbery at all. I spent some 30 years woodworking without a lot of fancy machines, and I think one of the great things about woodworking is the fact that there are often many different ways to get to a similar result. But the OP was asking what is "a clean and efficient way to square panels", and a sliding tablesaw is at the top of the answer list. Whether he can afford it or not is a perfectly legitimate concern, but not knowing anything about his situation, why make assumptions? None of the other suggestions (like the Festool guide, which I like very much by the way) can hold a candle to a slider in being fast and efficient. What's perfectly obvious is that most American woodworkers (not all) don't have a slider in their lexicon, which is quite a shame. For most Europeans, a tablesaw has a sliding carriage. Period. Why the difference? I don't know. But even the obvious answer of economics doesn't really make much sense to me. If you figure that most of us buy a tablesaw and use it for 20 years or so, then wouldn't it be sensible to pay a bit more per year and have all the advantages of a small slider? Let me put it another way - wouldn't it be worthwhile to pay $25 a month to have a slider? For anyone but the very occasional handyman, the answer is "yes", even if he himself isn't aware of it. If you're working in cramped quarters, then you've got other concerns in addition to cost. Where's the snobbery in all this?David Ringhttp://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e
Edited 11/26/2008 9:04 am by ring
Touch a nerve? No snobbery except the "real" tablesaw comment. It isn't about price, or who can afford what. It's as you say, giving an answer to the question. There is no "best" way to do anything. Best for you and your "real" tablesaw is best for you. My "best" way of using an ordinary tablesaw and a panel cutting sled is best for me. Your answer was merely an expression of your opinion, that others may or may not share. That is, I believe, what this is all about; a forum for Q&A based on personal experience and preference. I apologize that my comments offended you; but that was my opinion.
Hello woodbum ,
Ring , in his experienced sort of way was sharing his opinion with you , not being a snob , that's certainly not his style for sure .
Let's face it if we could afford and had the room for the better and a or best type of TS or whatever wouldn't we want and maybe have them ?
I'm a one person shop most of the time and I am still old school on my TS , this could be considered a hardship or more work and less results compared to using a slider saw .It can be done with a non slider just as building a house without any nails can be done as well , sure is more work though !
I use the TS on each job every day in the shop as a rule , there are many other machines that may go unused during some jobs ,shapers,edge sander,planer,band saw and a few others but the main station in my shop is the TS , perhaps like me you are just jealous .
regards dusty
Thanks for the reality check.
not being a snob ..
We all speak the way we do. Snobs.. I was dated one of that. I showed her my old 1940' something split widnshiled Mercury car.. She called her bodygards and had me PUSHED OF the property!
One thought about the Festo/ Ez method.
It's rather slow. I use it very often in the field as it's much
better then a contractor's TS.
But, it is much slower then just feeding material through the TS. Also, if you were doing multiple panels it would be possible to
inject some human error. After all your measuring and marking every
cut twice.
I use my Festool cutting guide and saw for this, but if you have a circular saw, you can make the same exact thing out of plywood. It may give you a little tearout, depending on how well yours cuts, so plan accordingly by scribing the line, or make a zero clearance for your blade on your circular saw.
I also have a shop made crosscut sled, but I only use that on shorter panels, say no more than 4 feet long. After that, it's too easy to introduce a slight angle due to the weight of the panel.
If you want to spend the money, either the Festool guide or the ez guide will work wonders for you without investing in (according to David and Rich) a "real" table saw.
Jeff
cross,
My method is:
Rough cut about 1" over-long, rough rip about 3/8 over-wide.
Face joint and dress to thickness. Glue up stock to make width if needed.
Edge joint best edge.
Rip to 1/16" overwide, joint to width.
Cut to length.
I use a crosscut sled. The length is set by a block clamped to the fence of the sled. I have a spacer of 1/4" plywood that straddles the fence, against the block. First length cut is with the stock against the block. This cut is to the worst end of the stock, and removes about 3/4". Then I flip the stock end for end, and make the 2d crosscut with the stock against the 1/4" spacer which is against the block, to final length.
Ray
I agree with you that the Festool Saw and Guide are a good way to go for cutting down panels. That saw is so accurate and to me, I believe that it's sometimes better to bring the tool to the material than the material to the tool.The Festool Saw/Rail has virtually eliminated my desire to have a slider. Okay... I want a sliding saw, but I have neither the room, the money, nor the need for a sliding saw! But wouldn't it be cool!
What's with all the aggression boys? Dang.
Aggression? No aggression here. I was just saying that the Festool is a nice set up for panels. But a big slider is the ultimate shop bling. For someone like me, all the neighbors would be jealous. Although most would be clueless of what a Martin T74 saw was. That and they'd wonder why it has to sit outside of my garage!
haha, no...not you...I just hit reply to your comment since you were the last one on the forum...I was talking about the other bozo's...
cross,
Still another option for you might be The Ultimate Crosscut Sled in a recent FWW, #197 or sumpin like that.
The one in the article was way too big for me so I made its son, so to speak. It takes a bit of tweaking but it works very well for me. Once set up it is very accurate. Also, I had to make a fixture to set it on when starting the cuts and a hardwood shim that is clamped on me jointer fence to keep it level on the TS.
Kinda like landing an aircraft carrier instead of the plane. :-) I call it a poor mans version of a slider.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bozos? Well Ring, I guess that says it all for me and you. Have a Great Thanksgiving everyone!
Maybe we're all bozos, but "at different levels of expertise" it seems.
I'll claim to be the BEST BOZO if it makes someone else happy.Have a good holiday, all.
David Ring
http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e
Jointer,
Gosh, did I say that? Must have been my evil twin.
Ray
Ugh.. I'm so lost now. Who said what?
Jointer,
You made reference to my bragging on (still with me?) a Festool something or other. I ain't got a single Festool anything, so that couldn't have been me. I did like that Festus character in Gunsmoke tho.
Ray
Ray , I can almost hear Festus " Marshall Dillon "
Yup, and when he was a little confused, "er... Mattheeww?
Ray
Ray,
Doncha just lllluuvvvvvvvvvv them Festus toolies!? Better crank up the production ifn ye wanna outfit ye woodshop with um! But hey, you got the coin.
But don't fret son, I hear tell them Festus folks r plannin a new puter (optional) controlled fetsaw! Comes wid its very own 'tainer sos ya kin stack it wid the odder uns.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob,
I don't recall Marshall Dillon ever trusting Festus with a sharp tool. Kinda like Sheriff Andy and Barney.
Ray
Ray , Don't you think you have gone a bit off subject first squaring panels then Gun smoke and now Andy of Mayberry , I liked Floyd the barber .
dusty
dusty,
I'm pretty sure Floyd used the scary sharp system on his straight razors. After his stroke, getting a shave from him was just scary.
Ray
Ray...
Reading you reply made me think of the Sweeney Todd Movie. Those were some scarry looking razors. Nothing like my Grandpas. His were Gold plated and he had a set in a box like in the movie. I believe they were made in England but I forget the name of the company that was on them. DON'T tell grandpa (passed on long ago) that I opened the box a few times just to look at them.
http://www.amazon.com/Sweeney-Todd-Razor-Prop-Replica/dp/B00139ZD72
Not selling anything. Just a picture I found.
I wonder if they would make a nice marking knife that will not follow the hard grain?
dusty,
'Member back when Festus first joined the show and made Mr. Dillon a cup of coffee?
Festus, aren't you gonna change the coffee.
Mr. Dillon that theyuh coffee's gettin mighty spensive ye know. Caint see wastin it.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Joinerswork,I think that I must have replied to the wrong poster. I just went back through the thread, although I'm still what all happened! Anyway, as far as bragging... I do own a Festool Saw + Rail. That's how a maverick cuts down and squares up a panel!
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