All ,
Maybe some will share some scary moments all in the idea we can learn from mistakes ours and others to prevent incidents as form of continuing education .
There are so many ways to hurt yourself while woodworking . Of course there are the big meat eating machines , TS , Shaper and other cutting and drilling tools .Those are the machines we expect to cause injury but others are just as capable .The drill press can cause a rash of spinning excitement in a hurry and should not be taken as harmless .
Accidents only happen when you least expect them , so trust your gut , when it doesn’t feel right just STOP .
Well , I have not kept count but hitting my digits with a hammer has been an ongoing injury source . The common chisel for me was my worst injury in over 30 years of shop work .
I got whipped by a offcut of Lexan on the TS that was not nice as well as a few kickbacks over the years .
It was late and I slipped the chisel did slice into a thumb and I looked deep into the cut and saw White looking stuff , my bone .I thought they would find me in the morning in a pool of blood with a chisel in my hand .
Really one of the most dangerous tools is the dull one , especially a chisel . We tend to push much harder with a dull one and when we slip ,a blunt cut perhaps .
I have had a few award winning splinters some worth using as kindling , usually a smashed finger a bump in the head or a few splinters is my normal day , my hands would not win any beauty contest .
” knowledge without experience is simply information”
dusty
Replies
You shared up enough scary moments so I think I’ll skip lunch today, have to call the wife tell her to plan for something else then hamburgers tomorrow.
dusty,
over the years and through more than just working wood with sharp stuff, the biggest mistake i ever have made, and one that challenges me at every turn of my little doings is, as you say, not listening to my gut. in good old clear hindsight it is easy for me to see that, had i listened to intuition, i'd not be in this current pickle.
eef
Eef
Well it is real easy to look back and see what we should have done but the next step is to make the best of the hand we dealt ourselves or was dealt to us . The alternatives are grim .
Life can be more about problem solving instead of living sometimes .
Even in the darkest place we can , one match at a time make it brighter .
best to you
dusty
Amen.John
My two cents (or maybe it ought to be "sense"):
1. The drill press is not your friend when it has a large bit installed. Keep your hands away and clamp down the work.
2. Don't crosscut a large dowel or tree limb or anything else that's round on the bandsaw. But if you do it anyway, use a big clamp to hold the work and keep your hands waaayyyyy away from the blade.
I was curious about #2? I don't thin k I've ever needed to cut something round on thw band saw but it seems pretty safe. i must be missing something.
When the blade contacts the outer circumference of the round object, it will cause it to roll. Inevitably, this will both surprise the operator and jerk his/her hands forward.
I have had this happen once. It caused the blade to dig in, twist and jam in the wood and jump the wheels. Fortunately nothing more serious, though the blade was ruined. Even with a nice blade, it was a very inexpensive lesson to learn...fortunately.
Sapwood,
I had it happen cutting 4" PVC. The first cut I made went okay. The second time it did just what you describe. Fortunately the only damage was to the PVC but it could easily have been worse. I've developed other ways to cut PVC.
GeorgeYou don't stop laughing because you grow old. You grow old because you stop laughing. - Michael Pritchard<!----><!----><!---->
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The blade will cause the work to roll VERY FAST, that is, at the speed of the blade. It feels like a table saw kickback (except downward), not merely a 'roll'.Brian
Hi sapwood ,
As far as cutting round stock on the band saw goes , you are sure correct about the dowel wants to rotate from the blade and gets dicey .
I use a Vee block when I have repetitive cuts to make on any saw .
It can be an auxiliary base longer then you need , yes you cut through the bottom part way , like many jigs .
You can line the Vee block with sandpaper to me this works best to stop things from moving .
regards dusty
Oldusty,
The woodworking machine that always gives me pause is the jointer. I've never seen an accident on one, but.... In the early fifties I attended 8th and 9th grades at a very small school in central Iowa. They didn't have a dedicated shop instructor so the biology teacher did double duty. Shortly after the start of the year he put a board face down through the jointer without using a push block. His fingers and palm were on the trailing edge of the board but the heel of his hand was riding on the input table. I wasn't there when it happened but, after almost 60 years it still gives me the willies when I think about it.
George
You don't stop laughing because you grow old. You grow old because you stop laughing. - Michael Pritchard
In the sixth grade in Lima, Ohio I was in the shop class for the first time. Us young uns were only allowed to use power tools with close teacher supervision. While in the shop one afternoon another older student, 14, came into the shop and turned on the jointer. As the jointer spun up, I and the teacher looked up at about the same time to see this student swing the guard back and start to move his wood pencil toward the cutterhead. The teacher screamed and took off running and the kid stopped. The jointer was quickly turned off and we all found out that his intent was to sharpen his pencil on the spinning knives. I could just imagine, even at 12 years old, what the results of this stupidity could have been. It still makes me shudder, and it's been 52 years. That was the last time this kid was seen in the shop. I guess some actions are so stupid that you aren't going to get a chance to repeat them.
I still treat the jointer with more caution than any other shop tool.
Bruce"A man's got to know his limitations." Dirty Harry Calahan
Way back in print shop in Junior high school a Boy wanted to see how sharp the big guillotine paper cutter was ,, all he did was drop the handle he didn't even press on it .
It cleanly severed 3 fingers off on an angle , in those day's the technology was not as available to sew them back on .
Snce then and I suppose other incidents the paper cutters require 2 handed operation , so unless you have a helper or a third hand your safe .
dusty
I've used a guillotine paper cutter to cut full reams of paper, even 110#, and it really doesn't take much effort. I worked at Lane Furniture in Virginia years ago and the veneer cutters were all guillotine type electric powered machines. There were a couple of old hands that were missing fingers from the days when the 2 operating switches were not required. These machines would make a clean cut through a 2" stack of veneers like a razor through paper. Cutting flesh and bone would be no problem.
I don't fear tools, or electricity, but I do respect what they can do to my body if I do not follow proper safety procedures. So far I have not had any machine tool injuries except for a couple of minor cuts from a drill press catching a piece of metal and spinning it around. I learned to clamp down the stock when drilling even a small diameter hole. I've had several cuts over the years from a sharp chisel, I used to be a gunsmith and stocks are almost exclusively hand tool projects, but I've learned to avoid most of them also. :)
Work safe, make chips, without unintended red stain.
Bruce"A man's got to know his limitations." Dirty Harry Calahan
Bruce,
I just read your reply to this post regarding workshop safety after returning from my own shop and drilling a piece of sheet metal for a repair I'm making to a piece of ductwork.
I had a drill bit chucked up in my drill press and a 3x4 inch piece of sheet metal placed on the wood table that I had screwed to the top of the cast iron table. The wood table means I have no way of clamping anything through the holes in the cast table. So my plan was to hold the sheet metal in place with my left hand while the right controlled the spindle's descent via the column's lever.
Then I stopped. I don't know why, but maybe it was the memory of having a drill bit punch through sheet metal and then having the metal rotate around madly like the blade under a lawnmower.
So I stopped, removed the bit from the drill press chuck, and mounted it into a cordless drill. Then I clamped the sheet metal to a piece of scrap wood lying on my bench and went to work. The result was clean holes and no gashed hands. And all it took was a little thinking things through beforehand. Man, I've got to do that more often!
ZoltonIf you see a possum running around in here, kill it. It's not a pet. - Jackie Moon
Zolton ,
Now that is what I mean , listen to your gut .
work safe
dusty
Dusty,
I did listen to my gut that time - and probably saved my hands some grief. As I get older I'm starting to do this more and more. Experience, I guess, is still one of the best teachers...
ZoltonIf you see a possum running around in here, kill it. It's not a pet. - Jackie Moon
Maybe my story prompted you to think about the dangers, who knows. I'm just glad you did think, and change to a safe way to drill the holes. Sheet metal is dangerious to drill, it's too thin and flexible to stay on the table when the bit breaks through, and the bit grabs it and gives it a spin. And man can those thin edges cut!
Any time I perform a task that raises the pucker factor before the tool is turned on, I try to think of a better way to execute. As my tag line says, "A mans got to know his limitations", Harry said it, so it must be true!!
Bruce"A man's got to know his limitations." Dirty Harry Calahan
Bruce ,
We can only hope that sharing information that contributes to safer work habits and leads to fewer injuries will be heeded by those who need to know .
Sometimes just re hearing something we already knew or forgot is not bad for refreshers for old dogs either .
Jammer's point about the injury not being this topic or issue but how it happened and how to avoid it is a good point but often it comes out .
Not for grusome reasons but when a guy tells me he cut his finger on the TS , I ask if its o.k. to ask and what were they doing when it happened . Imo I have learned a lot from others mistakes as well as my own .
I hope through forums like this and others sharing safety can be promoted organically also ( that ought to get the SS folks oops ! )that was humor , not a conspriacy .
regards dusty
Way to go!We should all think more often. Congratulations.Frosty"I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922
Yes, when the jointer takes something off, there is no doctor in the world that can re-attach it.
GeorgeYou don't stop laughing because you grow old. You grow old because you stop laughing. - Michael Pritchard<!----><!----><!---->
<!----><!---->
Yes, if you look at the product of a jointer it is just small chips of wood. The body parts would be in the same condition, and no doctor can sew up the little shreds of flesh or bone. What's gone is gone!
Work safe, respect your tools.
Bruce"A man's got to know his limitations." Dirty Harry Calahan
Joiner Accident
My husband had an accident with a joiner at work (cabinet shop) 7 weeks ago. He has no idea how it happened - he was taking all safety precautions and is very experienced with the machine. It did not completely sever the two fingers but almost did. Now all the fingers on that hand are the same length (happened to two middle most fingers) and the middle knucle is gone from those fingers and bones are fusing there. At least a 1/4-inch width was scooped out of each finger by the machine. Gruesome injury and permanent injury to his dominate hand. Be VERY careful.. and then even more careful!
Consequently, I am on this forum looking for tools and ideas to help him continue to be a woodworker with one permanently disabled hand.
Ouch
Sorry to hear of your husband's accident. I suspect he may need to wait until everything is healed, and then assess what movement and dexterity remains. The doctors may also be able to recommend exercises to improve dexterity, or ones to help transition "dominance" if that is necessary. Positive attitude and perserverance may be as important. I wish him both, along with good luck, in the process.
oldusty
there used to be a website where people could report their woodworking injuries. Maybe its still out there and I just can't find it, but it was amazing the number of ways you can hurt yourself. What was surprising was the large number of injuries from handtools - dropped sharp screwdrivers, catching sharp blades falling off the bench, etc. I learned the hard way that you should never put your off-hand in front of a moving tool. A sharp chisel I was pushing with my right hand, slipped out of the workpiece and into my bracing left hand.
Stan,The Accident Survey is no longer. I believe it was on Woodcentral.com. EDIT: Actuall Woodworker's Central http://www.woodworking.org/AccidentSurvey/search.htm - thanks to Don for the correction) Your comment on the number of hand tool injuries brings me to my greatest cause of workshop accidents: complacency.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
(soon to be http://www.flairwoodworks.com) - Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Edited 3/20/2009 11:34 pm by flairwoodworks
It may be back eventually. Link
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
Hopefull it will be. I valued (enjoyed isn't quite the right word) reading the experience and advice on how to avoid the accident. When I found that the survey was no longer, I evidently deleted it from my Favourites.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com(soon to be http://www.flairwoodworks.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
It was an interesting read, I hope he gets it back up.
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
Hi Dusty,
The worst injury (thank god, knock on wood) that I got from woodworking was from a brand new 3/8" straight solid carbide router bit. Now here's the most ironic part of the injury, the bit wasn't even mounted in a router!
The router bit manufacture must have press fit that damned bit into the plastic base. As much I tried I couldn't get the bit out, so while I am tugging like crazy on the bit, I stop and remind myself that I might get cut by the bit. So I grab a rag, wrap it around the bit and start tugging again, that damned bit was so sharp it cut right through the multiple layers of the rag and opened a five star gash on my thumb..
I have seen an accident with a 14 inch 5 horse radial arm saw, not good for fingers, and a couple of jointer accidents. One old timer told me to look at a woodworkers hands, if they are full of scars it tends to indicate that the person takes risks with tools. Safety is first and foremost a state of mind, taking the time to do the operation in as safe a manner as possible.
bushman ,
Not so sure that by looking at the hands you will be able to determine the risk level one takes , nor his or her ability nor much else , except they work with their hands ,
After much of a life time of working with my hands , first in the automotive field then woodworking I honestly would have to say that my hands have been through quite a bit and certainly have there share of scars and crooked thumb from pushing wood through the TS .
But the scars and wear and tear on my hands are not caused from taking risks with my tools , no it's from the normal and abnormal amount of time and years my hands have spent working and from everyday tasks a cabinetmaker / homeowner/ plumber/ electrician/sanitation engineer/father/husband/landscaper/trust me it is not from hobby woodworking.
dusty ,a boxmaker
Maybe some will share some scary moments all in the idea we can learn from mistakes ours and others to prevent incidents as form of continuing education .
Generally speaking, accidents isn't something most tradesmen discuss, with the two exceptions of safety meetings and one-upsmanship.
Perhaps they do but you have them on your ignore or as you put it your killfile list.
Shut enough people out and pretty soon you will be thinking nobody is discussing anything.
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
I'm not speculating, Green, I'm telling.My trade is one of the few things I'm qualified to speak about.You are welcome to listen or not, as you see fit.Regarding my killfile, as you wish.
Edited 3/21/2009 2:29 am ET by Jammersix
It is getting difficult to pick the diamonds out of the piles of dog shat you've been leaving.
There's just too much shat and too few diamonds.
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
Back in the early years of FWW, I recall there was an article about injuries, written by a an ER doc who was also a woodworker. 2 things struck me:1) injuries related to machinery hardly ever happen during the first 10 or so years after someone takes up the craft. They always seemed to occur when someone had made that cut a thousand times, got careless, and said to themselves....." I can make this one cut without the push stick........"2) By far, the greatest number of injuries came from hand tools -- especially chisels and utility knives. shortly after reading the article, I was with a guy who had been a carpenter for 20 years. He picked up a chisel to finish off a hinge mortise, and ...................... you can guess the rest of the story.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
I remember that piece. I try to keep it in mind out in the shop. Was it an article or a letter?
My most frequent injury is all things considered not too serious but certainly painful and irritating. I use a 1 horse inflatable drum sander with 60 grit sleeves to sand the concave parts of corbels. It only takes a split second to remove a lot of skin.
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
Pretty sure it was an article.I looked for it a couple of times in my back issues, but never found it. I don't know if they ever got around to it, but Taunton was going to digitize all the early issues, so maybe it's available online. Maybe the most useful article I ever read in FWW.Can't tell you how many "old-timers" I have seen get hurt because of carelessness that comes from over-confidence or "too much" experience.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
I found it on the FWW CD. The authors name is Dr. E. Jeff Justis.
The article is
Woodworking Injuries
A hand surgeon looks at how accidents happen
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
Don,
Issue #36. There's also a Survey of Hand Injuries conducted by FWW, the results of which were provided in #38 pg. 10. Beat me to the punch.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 3/21/2009 8:01 am ET by KiddervilleAcres
Hi Bob.
When I was a boy, me and grandpa (god rest his soul) were in his workshop. He was at his workbench about to start making me a box and I was in the loft after he sent me up there to find some timber. Anyhow I moved some wood and frightened a big hairy huntsman spider that dropped down and landed on the back of grandpa's hand. In his surprise, he swung his hand violently straight into the steel bench vice. The box was finished about 3 months later after his broken hand mended. Not sure what safety category that accident comes under :)
Kym
Hi Jammer ,
To be honest with it is how we learn , sometimes what not to do or how to avoid it in the future.
Several local cabinetmakers I know both got bit on the TS while making the same basic plunge cut for a bread board slide in a face frame member.
I also was making the cut much the same as they did but have since developed several options.
When I talk to someone who was hurt I do ask how it happened and store it away in my memory to learn from .
One upmanship would be like showing off battle scars mine is worse then your's stuff , I think that is very different then sharing and learning and possibly preventing incidents before they happen by experienced folk teaching the less experienced .Talking about these things are not everyones cup of tea so to speak .
regards dusty
I think it's good to talk about this sort of thing. I know that I've learned a lot from an accident I've had and from talking to others about it. I used that accident to re-think how I do things.A few years ago I purchased a set of Lincon Logs for my grandsons. Of course, that cardboard box is not good enough, so I was making a simple pine box with a hinged lid. The sides were rabbited together and I had made a jig on my cheapy table saw to cut them. I clamped a board on the fence over the blade to hold the side peices down as I pushed them through. One of the pieces caught and kicked back knocking the board off the fence, and one of the clamps hit the spinning blade. I got a face full of metal shavings including one in the iris of my left eye. Since then, I've had multiple eye surgeries trying to fix that mistake and will probably never see really well from that eye.At first I blamed the cheapy saw for the problem, so I got rid of that saw and got a much better one. Then thought, well maybe I hadn't tightened up the clamp enough, so let's double check any jig I put together for stability.Later, talking to another hobby woodworker here locally, he asked me Why were you doing the rabbits on the table saw when you have a very good router table?The good that came out of this situation is to think of the risks of what I'm doing and try to see if there is a safer, better way of accomplishing the same thing.By the way, I never did finish that box (this happened about 7 years ago). I do have that clamp with a big chunk of metal missing on the wall of my shop. It's a good reference to keep me thinking.Chuck
In one of my former occupations I was a RN and worked on the orthopedic ward then OR for 6 years. Well hobbiests of all kinds get hurt ie blowing up a kiln full of ceramics, Snap off blades snapping off, ladder falls, chainsaw and lawnmowers, and the snowblower.
Agro injuries from augers to chemical burns, High school football and weekend hockey warriors.I have also worked as a prosthtic/orthotic tech , custom shoemaker, all kinds of spinning things that can remove flesh and bone. The most dangerous tool is the brain, if it ain't workin' the numbers of proablity creeps forever forward,
Doing WW for almost all my life I have got a couple good kick backs, couple drill press kisses and a few band saw moments. A chisel that went from palm to finger tip underskin, very sharp, shook that one off.
Proudest moment, was running some stock over a new 3/4" cove bit and hit a soft spot. Right index finger got whipped around and out. I looked at it before it started to bleed, it looked like a green onion that was smacked. I went and got some tape and then ran it under water for a minute to clean it and get my bearings, Wrapped it like it should look like. and thought should go see the doc. then realized they would probably just remove the tip. well I pursed. I carefelly managed the finger. and after about 6 weeks I had a normal finger. But it is very tender and a constant reminder.
i would agree with you, Dusty, except for one point: it's not the injury that requires discussion.Given a reasonable human being, (even an apprentice) the practice in question, the danger and the solution can all be addressed without mentioning a specific injury. Furthermore, there is one more important point. Speaking with a lifetime in construction, (although it IS a shorter lifetime than some of the truly old folk here...) speaking as a man with many injuries from bandaids to aid cars, and speaking as the witness and first-on-the-scene to dozens of crippling injuries and one death, I tell you true: you do not need to be injured to correctly analyze safety issues and arrive at prudent practices.Speaking of injuries, however, implies just the opposite: that one must be injured to know what is and isn't safe.If that implication is removed, then so is the requirement to speak of specific incidents when what one wants to discuss is safety.Tradesmen don't discuss injuries. Tradesmen don't have "Injury Meetings".Tradesmen discuss safety, and hold Safety Meetings.
Jammer ,
Sounds like we basically agree , and I'll agree you don't need to be injured to talk about safety issues and practices .
For what it's worth the title of this thread is the " source " of ww injuries .
Not what injury did you get , the injuries are the unfortunate results .
As an example: If you just tell someone not to crosscut small pieces on the TS without telling them the consequences or reasons it may not have actually educated them to what can happen and how to avoid it .
Sure the mention of the injury will usually come up but the source and knowledge to avoid the things you should are what is more important .
I never heard what trade you've lived , sounds like you had your share of life on the job and then some , I hear that and respect it . Were you a Union man ?
regards dusty
Yes, I believe we do agree.I'm a Carpenter (note the cap) by trade. Yes, I served my apprenticeship in locals 131 (Seattle) and 1797 (Renton).I've been a contractor since 1983, but am no longer in the business.
Dusty,
Some moments: not so much scary as bloody. I had a record 52 1/2 vise with a quick release. It was in closed position or so I had thought and the release was in normal position or so I thought until scrounging around non the shelves with my forearm near the vise -whap! The spring release released and a plug the size of a .22 cal. disappeared from my forearm. I look at that divot every time I'm at the bench - and I check the tension on the release :)
Other things are the routine gouges of my hide by shop machine edges, Every machine I have, starting with the table on the Band saw now has fully radiusesd corners and edges. TS table edges and miter slot entry point edges, overhanging arms. If I can bump up against it and get gouged ( or even if it's rough) -- it's filed or sanded. I even have tennis balls installed on things that are extruded and could spear me - like arm extensions on table saw guards- carrier rods on Band Saw tables....
On some days the shop felt more like Bre'r Rabbit's blackberry patch.
BB
My worst accident to date came from a 3/4" sheet of plywood. It slipped out of my hands while I had it lifted about 18" off the ground and it came down on my foot. Needless to say I could not fit a shoe on that foot for a while.
Matt
Dusty,
Thank you for this topic. I know it's and old saw, (pun intended), but safety should always be first in our minds.
Here's something to think about: Be aware of change.
Many times I have seen accidents result when something, or someone, changes on the job. I often know exactly what I plan to do. But then something will change, (different material, different size, different tool, or even different day).
That is the time to STOP and re-think the job. If you think a five minute review is going to put you behind, just how far behind schedule will you end up after that emergency room visit?
I've been fortunate in that I've not been injured on the job since 1975. (tapping a 1/2 inch hole with a 5/8 tap because I didn't want to walk back to the tool box and get the correct tool. Eight stitches in my thumb for the effort...)
I hope every one of my fellow "knot heads" will take the time to be safe in the shop, on the job and on the road.
Regards,
Fred
North Guy ,
You are very welcome and thanks for sharing your insightful words .
regards dusty
Completely unrelated, but the drift of the conversation reminded me.Human nature is a funny thing.My father, who was a REAL contractor, taught me this, and I've had it happen to me many times, enough that I agree with him.A worker can injure himself. He (or she) can injure himself severely, and then human nature tries to take over.You run up to a guy who has just fed two fingers into his tablesaw, and he's standing there white as a sheet, with the fingers laying on the saw and blood pumping out of his hand, surging a little bit with every beat of his heart.Then human nature makes you ask "are you okay?"And what's amazing is that most people will answer that yes, they're okay.So Dad's point was this: they'll lie. It's almost like they have to. The guy is standing there with eight fingers where sixty seconds ago he had ten, and he's trying to tell you that he's okay.He's not okay.It's okay to ask them, hell, it might even make them feel a tiny bit better to lie about being okay, and they need every bit of better they can get at that moment. I'm not a shrink-- maybe there's a real need to state that in spite of what just happened, they're okay. I guess no one wants to come out and say that they just lost two fingers/a hand/a foot/all feeling below the waist, and their life has just changed forever.But you can't rely on any answers you get from them. You have to check their hands for yourself, you have to look to see how much of them is actually covered by the cave in, you have to try to see what part of their boot the brick(s) hit. You have to look to see if they're leaning strangely to one side, if they're favoring one of their legs or feet when they take a step or if they all of sudden can't straighten up all the way.You have to decide for yourself, independent of their claims whether or not they're really okay.It's one point where I've consistently seen men I know to be honest lie.
I would imagine that they are in shock to a point that they wished they were OK.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Yeah. I'd buy that.Dad taught me to go ahead and ask them, then ignore their answer if they try to tell you they're okay.
I've been thinking about sources for WW injuries over the weekend and discovered one that I don't think has been mentioned - dust. Also been thinking that maybe we could offer some suggestions as to Prevention of WW injuries? Might give new meaning to IP (Injury Prevention)?
Somehow dust may not seem like a source for injuries until you start thinking about your lungs. Dust inhalation in my opinion certainly can cause an injury and there is a solution or at the least a way of minimizing an this injury.
I think there is a perception that injuries are caused by mistakes, taking risks, etc. whereas dust collection is thought of more in the context of a preventative measure. If that's true then would you consider sharpening/maintaing our tools to be injury prevention? How many times have you read, "A dull tool is dangerous" or words to that effect.
Hey for that matter I suppose cleaning the woodshop might also be considered too?
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Hi Bob ,
The problems that dust can cause are real as we know however Imo they are a more of an accumulated condition like Arthritis it's real but not an injury .In other words a single incident did not cause an injury .There is a difference .
Dust collection should be addressed to provide a healthier environment , this certainly is a preventative measure .
Studies have shown that with as little as a week or two some people can develop nasal cancer from exposure to certain hardwood dusts that they are more sensitive to .Either it will bother you or not some folks are not as affected by dust as others , the traditionally bad to breathe woods like Mahogany , Cedar to name a few .
sharpening our tools should give us better results with less efforts .You did make the statement a while back about maybe a dull chisel would be safer , until you are pushing so hard that you slip and stick yourself with that dull chisel .
Dust is an issue that causes lung conditions that could be prevented so it is something that should not be taken lightly ( no pun intended )
Man I just cut and milled some Jatoba , whew that stuff stinks .
dusty , I sand therefore I am
dusty,
You did make the statement a while back about maybe a dull chisel would be safer
Yikes, I musta been hittin the shellac hot and heavy that day! Are you shure I said that? I've pretty much adopted the philosophy that a dull tool is the one that'l cut ye.
There is one reflex <non reflex?) reaction that I developed whilst a barber - If ye drop sumpin don't try to catch it. Mebbe in that case a dull chisel might be better, but it'd havta be duller 'n a hoe though.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
I've only been woodworking for about 3 years, and thankfully only have a few knicks and scratches that would be routine for any of us.
I don't necessarily enjoy reading all of the grewsome stories, but they have certainly caused me to rethink the way I use my tools. They serve as a great lesson to all of us, assuming we have the sense to learn them.
It seems developing habits that are safe and knowing when you're getting a little too tired are just two steps that would go a long, long way for keeping all of the digits intact.
I usually ask myself before making a cut, "Am I confident enough in the safety of this cut to bet my hand on it?"
I haven't seen a piece of wood that I would trade my hand for yet.
Dusty, Marti, I see your point.And Dusty, after re-reading the thread, you're right. This thread could (should?) have been about the causes, not the stories.Maybe we should start a thread about the urban legends.
Yea I'm still looking fir the 67 "Vette" that the guy died in for $100.00
I was thinking about the roofer on a 12-12 slope, nailing shingles with an air gun, who started to slip and stopped himself by putting one through his hand. I spotted that one as an urban legend right off the bat.It would take at least two, one would tear out...
Edited 3/24/2009 10:58 pm by Jammersix
On the topic of injury prevention, this winter I built a table for my drill press with T slots in the table top and a fence, even if you do not adjust the fence up to the material you are drilling through, you can rest the tail end up against the fence and it will prevent it from spining around when you break through. I think the fence is a very good safety feature, I think there are probably a lot of people out there that have been bit by the drill press at one time or another.
This is a good topic it makes you think of how to do things in a different or safer way.
More to the story-- talking with a couple of friends, and they say the real value in stating, publicly and for the record that they're okay when they're clearly not, comes later.Later, after the injury heals, everyone will talk about what a stud he was-- he lost two fingers, he said he was okay, and all he wanted was a bandaid to go back to work.I think they're full of it, and I observe that between the two of them, they have twenty fingers, twenty toes, four feet, four hands, and no extra zippers or holes.I also offer this: the most common injury, across the board, in construction (I realize this may or may not apply here) is stepping on a nail.There are two solutions. One, everyone must wear boots, and anyone showing up without boots gets sent home without pay to get them.Two, no one is allowed to walk away from a scrap on the ground with a nail in it. If they created the scrap, they are to pull the nail before they leave the scrap anywhere. If they are walking past the scrap, they are not allowed to walk past it-- they are to stop, and pull the nail. Failing to pull either nail is a firing offense.It never ceased to amaze me how no one could believe that I was really going to fire them for a safety violation...
Another one that may have more application here is this: if the rip you're about to make is narrower than your clenched fist, you need a push stick.
I was watching a medical reality show on TV and they showed how a surgeon cut off a few of his fingers on a table saw. He was cutting a 2x4 at an angle without a fence or a miter gauge...just grabbed it with one GLOVED hand on either side...and pushed it through. When he reached down to turn off the saw his glove got caught in the blade. It gave me the willies watching him use a saw like that. I think my worst injury was stabbing my hand with a chisel.
Jim
To all:
If one is in the habit of wearing a shop apron, a sewn in breast pocket is where we usually carry pencils, or in my case some years back, a deburring tool ground to a point on a triangular file. In a sewn in breast pocket, it's no more dangerous than carrying a pencil there. However, the shop obtained these cheaper aprons in which the pocket was merely sewn to the rest of the apron along its top, kind of like a pouch. I spotted a cut off piece of tubing- very hazardous- and stooped down to pick it up. The pouch styled pocket dropped down, and I caught the butt end of the deburring tool on my thigh, driving the point into my chest. I sustained a pretty serious puncture wound triangular in shape. Had it not stopped on a rib, I could have been in real trouble. As it was, it was kind of bloody and hard to staunch, but I was left to recover with a sore pectoral muscle for some days afterward.
Afterward, I realized we didn't really need to grind those tools to a point, so I at least squared mine off, but I never wore that kind of apron there again.
All,
Once I spent part of a weekend working on the dust collection set up for the bandsaw. Subsequently I was cutting a piece of wood on it and was impressed how little dust was on the table. I reached under the table to feel how much suction was there with the saw running. On myDelta 14 in bandsaw there is about 2 inches of exposed blade under there. I cut a 1/8 inch kerf in my thumb. No stitches were needed, butitcould have been worse.
FB
Router lesson
This is an old thread with unfortunately new relevance for me. I was recently using a router with a bottom cleaning bit and a jig to flatten a big slab. The jig was sized to span the width of the slab, sized to keep the router base from falling off to the inside and had guides on the outside and ends to keep the base on the jig. Taking very shallow cuts, I would take passes across the width, moving the jig to the side between passes until I had a complete pass across the length of the board. I was partially through the third pass over the length when the router kicked out of my hand, cutting my left wrist as it fell to the floor. This is a very common technique for flattening a board, was well thought out and was not caused by inattention. To this day I am not really sure why it happened but these are the lessons I took from the experience:
Only use “small” bits in a handheld router. I don’t know how to define small but I was using a 3” bit and I think that is too big.
Do not use a bit extender. I was using one and one possibility is that it introduced additional shaft flex which in combination with the big bit caused it to dig into the wood in a gnarly area and kick.
Have a device in your shop to dial 911 without using your hands. I had a telephone but could not dial it due to damaged tendons and a cut artery in the left wrist. The right hand was busy trying to stop the blood from the cut artery.
It was obviously not my best day of woodworking but I lived. It took a 5.5 hour surgery to repair the damage; I am just into 3 months of physical therapy and won’t know how much feeling will return to some fingers for about a year. I hope this experience will help someone avoid having a similar one.
Sorry to hear that
I'm sorry to hear about your injury. Hopefully you'll make a full recovery soon. My brother got hurt a few years ago using a slot cutting bit in a hand held router. He almost lost his finger but got lucky.
You may want to post your topic over at The Burl http://www.theburlforum.com as there a couple of injury threads going over there now. The more info we can get out about injuries maybe the less likely it will happen again to someone else.
Mike
As long as they don't ask me for my name.
Sawmilll Creek didn't believe my name is my name. I haven't decided yet if it's racist or just plain, vanllla ignorance combined with a small view of the world.
But I'm not taking another name just to get on Sawmill Creek.
Sorry to hear this, Tom
I hope you heal quickly and completely.
no name needed
They don't need your name. You can be ProjectX if you want.
I feel the same way about Sawmill Creek. Post a photo of your brand new shop and someone can Google your name to figure out where you live and rip you off. No thanks.
Mike
Mike,
Some of the discussions I have read lately on Saw Mill Creek have been seriously informative. And was thinking I would sign on at least so I could open the posted photos which won't open for me now.
I argee with you, i don't need everyone in the world showing up at my door, not that I have anything anybody wants, a five hundred pound welding machine (probably not much chance of anybody running off down the alley with that under their arm) and a bunch of hand tools no body wants or knows how to use anyway, but . . . you know . . .
i have always enjoyed creative monikers and was surprised to see NONE there. What is the deal? If I entered Wow Bagger for my name I would be rejected ?
Happy Thanksgiving by the way !
rejection
If I entered Wow Bagger for my name I would be rejected ?
Yes you'll be rejected. You must set up with your real first and last name at Saw Mill Creek. I've pretty much go between The Burl and Woodnet for forums.
Actually, your "real" name
Actually, your "real" name might or might not do it.
They also need your name to sound like something they've heard before.
My "real" name didn't pass muster.
Oh now . . .
I wonder if you didn't contact the moderator they might wise up to the name you need to use.
(hey . . . if you get yours in I would like to use an alias so maybe I will tell them my real name is Wow Bagger the infinitely prolonged.)
Actually the name of the character in the book is called Bowerick Wowbagger. Every body shortens it and calls him Bow Wowbagger. His dad knew they would when he gave him the name. His father had a sense of humor .
: )
But I don't want to push it THAT far.
Underestimating
I know this is old, but posts about injury in woodworking nearly always make me cringe and give me an odd feeling deep in my gut. I'm still whole, but not for trying, doing dumb things and coming oh so close. Maybe that is why the odd feeling in the gut.
I find that my close encounters often come from underestimating the power of the machines I'm working with. I mean how much could a 1/3 hp drill hurt you until it whips something round into your fingers. I once thought of a big box small table saw as a toy until it threw a chunk of 2x6 into my gut leaving a lot of swelling and the end grain of the wood embossed on my stomach. And last night I manage to nick my finger almost stitching through the flesh with a sewing machine. It hurts. It's so, well innocent and harmless a machine.
The other times I've come close is after doing repetitive work making the same cut, the same moves many time. I find I get careless. It's just a rhythm, and then I become aware of the blade spinning way too close.
peter
Good thoughts, Peter
We are, after all, much softer than the materials we cut, drill, chisel, etc., and certainly softer than those tools we use.
The Odd feeling in the Gut !
Hi Peter & All ,
When doing any task and I get that feeling , I stop , I did it today .
Trust your gut , you'll be right at least half the time .
regards dusty
I get that feeling from heights-- I don't think I've ever gotten it from tools.
Gut Feeling
Hi Jammer ,
Long time no see glad you are up and at um .
O.K. some clarification with me it is usually on the TS and a piece is too short or starts to move wrong or with any power tool or machine when it feels wrong it usually is wrong , and thats when I get that feeling .
keep your dry side up
best regards dusty
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