Replies

1. 
   JohnWW | Sep 21, 2004 01:45am | #1

   Bill,

   A lot sound problems can be prevented by choosing quieter tools, portable thickness planers, skilsaws, and routers generate the worst types of noise when it comes to annoying the neighbors.  Installing the router in an enclosed router table and using a cast iron planer would help as much as added soundproofing and probably cost less. 

   Dust collectors generate a fair amount of noise but the DC can be enclosed inside of a separate room, with added soundproofing that is located on the side of the shop building that is furthest away from the nearest neighbors.  Of course having air conditioning so you can keep the doors closed in hot weather would help.

   You can get brochures from the drywall manufacturers that tell you how to achieve various levels of soundproofing using commonly used construction materials.

   John W.

1. 
   Hochar | Sep 21, 2004 04:28am | #2

   Thanks John, you're right. I may re-think things a bit and keep it on the simpler(and cheaper, I'm sure) side of things.

2. 
   AlbionWood | Sep 21, 2004 06:31pm | #3

   Foam panels under the drywall help a lot.  My old cabin/new shop is built that way and there is very little noise transmission either way - all of it through the windows.  It's kind of a pain having the drywall separated from the studs, makes it more difficult to install shelves etc. but thermal performance is greatly improved.

   "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler."  A. Einstein

   http://www.albionworks.net

1. 
   JohnWW | Sep 21, 2004 07:26pm | #6

   Bill,

   This is a moderately expensive solution to the shelf hanging problem, but you can back up sections of the wall where you expect to hang a lot of shelving or tools with sheets of plywood mounted on top of the foam directly behind the sheetrock. 

   If you wanted to cut the material costs, but add to the labor, you could run strips of the plywood, each around 4 inches wide, on top of the foam and screw the strips into the studs before you hang the rock.  The strips can be run vertically or horizontally depending on what will be hung on the wall later.  The advantage to using full sheets of plywood is that there will be a good backing anywhere you want to hang something. 

   I've used this trick in several situations where I knew that later on I'd be hanging a lot of things on the wall, when using continuous sheets of plywood the freedom to hang anything anywhere securely really pays off.  This is also a good trick to use on bathroom, kitchen, and utility room walls. 

   John W.

2. 
   Hochar | Sep 21, 2004 07:27pm | #7

   Thanks for the response. I think I'll need to really think about to what extent I'll want or need to take it...

3. 
   tufenhundel | Sep 21, 2004 07:08pm | #4

   Bill:

   I am in the exact same spot you are.  And soundproofing is going to be a major concern, as my shop will be in a residential area and I will end up doing much of my work during the evening/night hours.

   I am sure you'll find soundproofing will require consistency in approach, e.g., you can't build up insulated walls and use single pane windows.  From my reading on the net and especially at Breaktime, two main methods for walls are staggered studs, so that the inside drywall is decoupled from the sheathing outside. 

   The second is probably your method, as you already have a shell.  Use resilient channels on the studs prior to mounting drywall.  This gives you decoupling that you need.  For mid and low frequency noises, you'll need to decouple the inside walls from the outside, else the walls will vibrate like a drum.  Also adding an additional layer of drywall will add mass to attenuate the noise.  Don't forget about insulation between the studs.

   Then there's sealing ALL the gaps with acoustic sealant (some silicone based product, I guess).  This includes drywalls at the floor, all the plumbing and electrical inlet/outlets.  I also plan on orienting the doors away from the house side, as the garage door will be the worst leak.  I don't plan on having any windows, for noise and security, so maybe a skylight will be called for.  Finally, I plan on using landscaping (tall bushes and trees) to shield the shop from the homes.

   Soundproofing individual tools will be considered, but I think most of the noise comes from the cutters, where it is difficult to soundproof.

   Let me know what you decide to use.

1. 
   Hochar | Sep 21, 2004 07:25pm | #5

   Thanks for the response. A lot to think about.

4. 
   chatobob | Sep 22, 2004 01:08am | #8

   In building my studio, I used homasote instead of drywall on the interior walls (2 X 6 studds) and the ceiling.  http://www.homasote.com It's more expensive than drywall, but goes up easily, no "mud" needed, no sanding, no dust.  Can you tell I hate drywall?

   Best attribute for you:  it has the sound deadening attributes you need.  Plus, whenever someone comes into your workshop, they will say:  "What is that funny stuff on the walls?" 

   -Bob

1. 
   JohnWW | Sep 22, 2004 01:21am | #9

   Homasote as an interior wall, without sheetrock under it, is illegal in anyplace that has building codes because it offers no fire protection.

   John W.

1. 
   WayneL5 | Sep 22, 2004 02:35am | #10

   Homosote makes a fire rated product.  This page does not say it's suitable for a fire rated wall assembly, but this is as far as I looked.

   http://www.homasote.com/nch.html

1. 
   JohnWW | Sep 22, 2004 04:54pm | #11

   Thanks for the information, I didn't know there was a fire rated Homasote.  I suspect it costs a fair amount and would be a special order item, but it would be useful.

   John W.

1. 
   mitch | Sep 23, 2004 04:15pm | #12

   i'm going with sprayed foam insulation.  haven't yet decided if it will be icynene or poly-isourethane, but i'm leaning towards poly-iso.  looks a little less expensive in my area.  both have awesome insulating qualities and excellent noise abatement, too.

   m

2. 
   Hochar | Sep 23, 2004 07:02pm | #13

   Thanks for the idea Mitch. I'll check into that also.

5. 
   splintergroupie | Sep 23, 2004 11:58pm | #14

   Dense-pack cellulose insulation will be a lot better than FG bec it seals around outlets and holes much better, and is much cheaper than icynene, since you can easily DIY it. Rent the blower for free when you buy cels at a HD or Lowes--should take you less than a day. You can loose-fill the attic with the same machine while you're at it.

   I've done two houses/shops now with a layer of foam over the studs, and would highly recommend it. One was layed with foam on the interior walls, with SR over, and the other with foam on the exterior (interior was already plastered) under furring in a rain-screen assembly. The thermal break makes the room a lot more comfortable and eliminates telegraphing of the stud locations, as well as aiding with heating/cooling costs.

1. 
   tufenhundel | Sep 24, 2004 04:44pm | #15

   What is dense-pack cellulose?  How does contractor installation cost compare with fiberglass in the midwest?

1. 
   splintergroupie | Sep 24, 2004 08:28pm | #16

   Dense-pack uses the same type of blower used to fill attics with blown cellulose, only a smaller tube is snaked into the bay through an opening in either the drywall from the inside or the sheating on the outside to feed cells into the cavity at a higher density. The idea is to blow cels under higher pressure to fill every nook and cranny with insulation. This is done by shutting down the ratio of cels to air while filling the bays. For an example, i used 30 bags of cellulose to fill the bays on a house with 156 linear feet (inc. openings) of 8'-tall walls in a remodel, at $8 a bag. I blew 52 bags loosely into the attic to about 10" deep. I'll go back when i put down the attic floor and dense-pack the rafters eventually. Insulating the walls, once the sheathing was drilled with access holes, took two days, while the attic took a couple hours. As you can see, dense pack takes a bit longer to burn through the bags of insulation. You need two people: one on the blower and one feeding bags of cells into the hopper.

   http://www.us-gf.com/retrofittingsidewalls.asp?Type=CR

   That's a website for Cocoon, which is the DIY brand of equipment and cels that places like HD and Lowes uses, with a sketch of how it's done. (There is also a LOT of information over on the Fine Homebuilding side of Taunton.) One of the things you need to be careful of, using 1/2" drywall, is to not fill so tightly you pop the DW off the wall. You'll find differing advice on where to drill the holes for inserting the hose, but i found that one 2-1/2" hole midway on the wall was sufficient: i fed the tube down, blew the bottom half, withdrew the tube, ran the hose up to the top plate, and filled the top of the bay.

   One of the problems with FG is that the batts are standard sizes, so if the studs are a bit off center, or you have some odd angles or wires traversing the wall, you can get spots that aren't as well covered. The little openings act like chimneys for air to go through. In a shop it might not be so critical, but in a house where you have moisture sources, this can lead to condensation and rot as moist air cools on its way out. The cells just do a superb job of sealing around openings.

   You'll have to do some calls to local stores/contractors to find your square foot cost of FG for whatever depth of cavity you need to fill, and compare that with the cels. There is a handy table on the bag of Cocoon cels itself that tells you how many bags to buy, depending on how deep and how dense to fill. I do all my own work, so have no idea what a contractor would charge you, but you might ask on Breaktime if anyone has an estimate of what it would cost.

1. 
   tufenhundel | Sep 25, 2004 12:09am | #17

   thanks for learning me