The floor of the front porch on my 1910 house is the original 1 by 4 T&G Fir, and it needs replacing. I’m thinking about using Ipe 1 by 6, milling a 1/4″ groove in the edges to carry a spline, and screwing it down, plugging the holes.
What I need to know is if there is a lot of movement with this material with changes in temperature & humidity (shrinkage or expansion), or can I install them tight & expect them to stay that way.
The porch is covered, open on two sides, but is on the lee side of the prevailing weather. We live in Vancouver BC, so it never gets really cold or hot, but it can get wet.
I plan on prefinishing the material on both sides, probably with a coat of tung oil before installation.
Does anyone have any experience with this material in this kind of application?
(Also posted in Breaktime)
Replies
Ipe is a wonderful materials with a couple of caveats:
The price has been shooting up in this area, probably because it's generally a Brazilian wood and there is increased pressure for sustainable harvesting.
This wood is HARD. Place a piece in water and it sinks like a stone. If you haven't worked with it, you may be surprised. This presents a couple of issues. All fasteners must be pre-drilled, to proper sizes - don't think you can get away with the occasional "ah close enough" If you are using stainless steel fasteners in any area, this is especially important because they snap and are difficult to remove from Ipe. Although it may not be as hard on your tools as a wood with silica such as teak, because of it's density, it takes its toll on cutters.
The dust, which ranges from dark to bright yellow can be difficult to deal with if you happen to be sensitive to it. It can be dealt with, but try it out first.
Also because it is so hard, it generally doesn't take finish well. This leaves you with some options - let it gray and it will last, keep up with an oil product on a regular basis ( and quadruple your normal dry times), or use a topcoat, such as a spar varnish and go through tedious refinishing every few years. I am trying to come up with a hybrid of an oil product with some added spar/marine varnish for a little more build, while avoiding the cracking of a high build product. I haven't tried epoxy, because it's so expensive.
Recently, i have noticed some cracking/checking on end grain of comercially made imported Ipe furniture, but my projects have lasted fine. This may be a very similar wood though and not Ipe, as it is generally marketed as "amazon teak" etc... Perhaps someone knows if "cumaru" is one of these woods - I haven't read the wiki in a while.
Ipe is also somewhat brittle and you have to allow larger tolerances on joints such as a tongue and groove because if you smack it home it may crack.
I love it's look and durability, but due to cost increases and workability, I'm looking into a suitable replacement from the lot of new imports being used for decking. Any suggestions are welcomed.
Good luck
edit: to be more specific to your question, The plug holes and plugs will be a bitch to cut. Weather is not going to rot it, or at least your children won't live to see it, and expansion/contraction is minimal but check the moisture level first, as it varies and I don't think it's generally kiln dried. Also check some of he fastening systems such as "ipe clip" and Eb-Ty fasteners - might be easier than milling splines if this fits your app.
Edited 7/4/2008 1:41 am ET by steverichards
my deck is ipe and that checking is pretty normal. Ipe does move but pretty minimally. Not sure about tung oil, I've used Penofin with great results but you will have to reapply annually to retain the finish. Unlike teak, ipe doesn't weather to a stately silver, instead it get muddy brown if left unfinished.I wouldn't do splines, not only will the milling process kill your tooling but it's probably overkill. I used Eb-ty fasteners and 7 years later, no problems. Lastly a note about safety. The dust from this stuff is miserable, wear a respirator. Also, wear framing gloves because the splinters are like steel shards except you don't feel them until they get infected (and they will).
Ipé moves, not a huge amount but enough to cause gaps between the boards. I wouldn't bother with splines unless you absolutely positively have to have an "airtight" surface. Don't use tung oil or boiled linseed oil or any other finish that isn't specifically intended for outdoor use, or else you will have mildew within seconds (well, weeks or months). There are a number of penetrating finishes designed for outdoor use; the worst of them will be better than the best indoor finish. You will need to use something like Anchor Seal on the end grain cuts to minimize checking.
-Steve
Steve: After reading your treatise on Ipe, would you care to comment on what would be a much better (from an ease of cutting, availability, finishing, durability standpoint) wood from which to make an outdoor table? I purchased FWW "outdoor table project plan #4" and the recommended wood is Ipe. The plan skill level is marked "advance" and after reading the comments on Ipe, that likely has a lot to do with the "advance" skill level requirement. The adirondak chairs in a recent issue of FWW suggested white oak which is plentiful and long-lasting. That being one of your recommendations, does white oak take a tung oil finish or is there something that will make it more weatherproof, or maybe a combination of finishes? Or maybe you can suggest a better wood than white oak? Thanks for your response. Jim
This is just my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt.
IPE = The biggest pain in the rear to be foisted off as "outdoor wood" in the last 20 years.
"Hard" is the understatement of the century. It's pretty much impossible to nail with a pneumatic gun, and drilling holes in it is, in my opinion, best accomplished with carbide drill bits designed for metal and concrete applications. It cuts OK on a table saw, but plan on sending the blade out for sharpening when you're done. Make sure you buy hardened screws - normal, run of the mill deck screws will snap off like they're made of cardboard.
Do yourself a big favor and reconsider your wood choice. While not nearly as hard, some of the domestic species such as redwood ($$$), heart pine ($$) or cypress (cheap) wear pretty well as outdoor flooring material, and will easily accept the paint or clear finish of your choice. If you have to have superior rot resistance, then mahogany (genuine, not african) or white cedar won't rot in your lifetime, and age beautifully.
If you can get reclaimed redwood, by all means do but the crap that lumber yards are passing off these days as redwood leaves me shaking my head as I walk away.
Thanks for all the input. It sounds like it might be more labour-intensive than I first thought, but given that the porch is only 10 x 10, it might still be manageable. I think I'll pick up a piece from our supplier and try a few things out, just to see if it's really the way I want to go with this.I'll keep you posted.
No problem, but don't get me wrong... I'm not suggesting you don't go with it. If I were to rebuild my deck (26'x15' with 2 runs of stairs and a landing... lot of ipe) I'd still go with it. I can imagine anything else in this price range holding up so well and looking so good while doing it. I'd just emphasize that taking your time and a good pair of tweezers for the splinters is a good idea! Definitely go with the Eb-ty fasteners, it's quick work laying this down with these fasteners.
I put custom milled 5" T&G ipe flooring on our sunroom two years ago, and it has held up great. I knew better, but ran it up all the way to the side of our house without a gap. It doesn't seem to have moved a lot, but did mess up the floor in my kitchen. 1/4 to 1/2" gap would have worked much better (duh!)
I also tried to glue the planks & fill the gaps together with superglue, but those opened up 1/16 or 1/8" anyway. The gaps aren't a problem, but the glue was a total waste of time. I finished it with polyurethane, which worked fine.
The biggest surprise for me was the difference between the wood as it arrived - full of wild yellow/green/black/brown, to a very dark rich brown.
And yes, the splinters...
No regrets, and I get a lot of compliments!
Does Ipe have good ground contact properties? We are putting in fencing and I am thinking of using Ipe for the posts.
I haven't been able to find definitive test data, but all of the anecdotal stories I've come across suggest that ipé will last pretty much forever in the ground.-Steve
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