INTRO – I do volunteer work for Household Goods Recycling Ministry. Some furniture, especially antiques, are sold at auction to help pay for the overhead. I do some repairs and refinishing to enhance the value under the guidance of an auction wizard. Certain items that don’t quite make it as antiques (design, flaws, a finish beyond saving) are painted green to look like “New Hampshire Cabin” furniture. I’ve done several pieces and they sell quite well (even though I sometimes hate to paint over beautiful wood grain).
PROBLEM – When I paint a piece, I always sand the top down to 320 grit with an orbital sander. The finish is glassy. Then I paint the top using slightly thinned latex paint. The result is never anywhere near as glassy smooth as it was. I don’t really want to do lots more work (pieces usually sell for $100-$200), but it sure would be nice to improve the finish on the top.
Any suggestions?
The Wood Loon
Acton, MA
Replies
Floetrol additive will allow the latex to flow. I've used it with a cheap Wagner electric paint sprayer and gotten a flawless surface.
Rick, which cheap Wagner do you have? Is it the cheap HVLP, like this one? I have a much older version, am interested in any tips for spraying latex, as I've mostly used it with lacquer.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
http://www.acehardwaresuperstore.com/wideshot-power-painter-308-66-gph-p-2475.html?keywords=wagner%20spray%20gun
Nothing close to HVLP. It was a $60 plug in electric Wagner. Did a great job. My buddy was painting houses and would get 2 houses from a $60 cheap Wagner. Just thin latex with Floetrol and go. I paid $15 for mine at a flea market, never used. Still use it on occasion and it's fine. Do have a HVLP with turbine and a Binks Conversion gun as well. Expensive isn't always thje best.
http://www.amazon.com/WAGNER-SPRAY-0272062GE-Paint-Sprayer/dp/B0007UP576/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1220969306&sr=1-3
Actually, it's more like this one. I sprayed the doors on kitchen with white latex and it came out better than you could imagine.
Edited 9/9/2008 10:11 am ET by RickL
Thanks, Rick. We'll be painting our house next year, so this info will come in handy!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
You will also find you will get better results, both in applying and in use afterwards, if you don't use ordinary latex paint. A 100% acyrlic waterborne enamel will flow better. Ordinary latex will also exhibit "blocking" where even after it has dried, objects left setting on the top can stick to the surface. The acyrlic won't block like that. It's really not much more expense, for considerable benefits.
Could you use a finish sander. Then use shellace with a color in it. Or very thin oil paint with a color.
I can picture the furniture, and wish I could (in years past) come buy it. I wish you would work on a finish--and not use the orbital!
My Rigid 5" ROS doesn't leave ANY scratch marks that show through the paint. But I will probably try the Flotrel (sp?). When I finish the gallon of latex I have, I will definitely try the acrylic latex. Thanks all.Doug
The Wood Loon
Acton, MA
For a kitchen or bath use oil!Gretchen
Firstly all currently marketed latex paints ARE acrylic. The true latexes are historical only. That said the lower end acrylics are more likely to be labeled as "latex" and the higher end ones are generally better quality.
Secondly 320 grit is too fine for prepping for your base coats. 150 grit is about right. 320 is okay for slight scuffing/deburring between coats. I'd brush your latex on then scuff/deburr and recoat. If you want that glassy smooth look you have to apply at least three coats and then sand and clearcoat. I suspect that you are having beading/fisheye problems caused by the overfine prep sanding and the natural tendencies of the latex (acrylic) paints.
A good primer (such as XIM UMA) would be a big upgrade for this type project.
Edited 10/9/2008 8:36 am ET by bigfootnampa
A 100% acrylic doesn't act the same as other latex paints as it hardens better. Perhaps they are all acrylic, but the way they are marketed does seem to differentiate the ones that harden better as 100% acrylic.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
Yes they are ALL acrylic. I guess that paint companies couldn't bring themselves to give up a label that people were used to and sometimes asked for... but for some years now there have been NO actual latex paints manufactured. There ARE differences in quality and performance though and they do tend to use the "latex" label on the lower priced and lower quality formulations.
I've been making some painted stuff lately and have experimented with a variety of finishes and teqniques. I don't like making painted things and I don't like painting, so I'm always after a faster way to acheive good results with the least effort. The one I like best starts with a coat of sandable primer. Once dry, I sant the primer and re-coat if I sand through. I then topcoat with Sherwin Williams Pro-Classic thinned with a Wagner product called Paint Easy. Paint Easy is similar to Floetrol, but thins the paint also, making it flow out by taking longer to dry. I've been spraying also; makes it go really fast and makes a smoother finish. The only problem is that the thinned paint does have a tendency to sag if you're not careful spraying.
I've discovered, after much experimentation, that thinning latex with denatured alcohol and then shooting with an HVLP gun, 1.8 tip, gives a beautiful smooth surface. The alcohol flashes so rapidly there is little problem with sags or drips.
That's great to know. I've often wondered if alcohol would work.
under the guidance of an auction wizard. I have no idea who he/she is.. I'd stain one and paint a similar object..
Maybe at bidding time walk up and say... I will finish as you want it if you buy another!
I would think Acrylic paint is the way to go.. Acrylic is safe as far as I know.. Even for children.. Somebody correct me if I am wrong... Acrylic is easy to work with and a wonderful paint!
Edited 8/23/2008 8:15 am by WillGeorge
Try priming the surface twice, hand- sanding in between coats. Then apply the first coat of latex paint, let dry and sand using 800G emery. Apply a second coat of paint. Spray finishing works quite well.
Another thought is to use a few coats of waterborne poly on top of the paint after it is dry to protect it. The advantage is that if it gets scratched the paint is not and it can be touched up.
And if it gets scratched through the paint it can't be matched/patched.Gretchen
Hey Joel,
Thanks for the reply. Water-borne finishes are great, but I would not do it for two reasons.
1. Although waterborne finishes work great, it is more time consuming to repair the finish if the surface has been scratched over the surface thickness of the film and into the paint.
2. With that in mind, repairing the surface would mean applying both paint and clear-coat, and the only way I know to do that is to apply the paint to the entire surface, followed by the clearcoat. See where the cost adds up !
After you've sanded I'd spray it with an acrylic poly. Who cares about super easy touch up--the piece should be repainted if that's an issue.
Flotrol will be helpful and should probably be used on all your coats to cut down on the sanding.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
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