Replies

1. 
   MarkRD | May 09, 2005 02:28pm | #1

   Found it. I was searching in the wrong forum. If anyone is interested, here is the link.

   http://www.cycloneseparator.com/index2.html

   Mark

   Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.

1. 
   forestgirl | May 09, 2005 07:04pm | #2

   Wow, does that thing really work?  Between the 2 180-degree turns and all that flex-duct seems like the little DC in the picture would have a heck of a time keeping up.

   Sign me just learning about dust collection.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   TomMGTC | May 09, 2005 07:36pm | #3

   I can't imagine it works very well as shown in that picture.Tom

   Douglasville, GA

1. 
   forestgirl | May 09, 2005 08:40pm | #4

   Question for ya:  Even if the ducting was efficient, is that unit going to work all that much better than a trash can with the separator lid attached (especially given the space the big one takes up)??forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   Harryd | May 09, 2005 10:00pm | #5

   See

   http://www.cycloneseparator.com/8751.html

   for the design performance.  This is basically a classifier to remove the heavies from the dust.

   I worked with a process development group in the sixties on a large chemical plant and materials handlong facility.  We had cyclones dropping out about 90% of a dense organic dust in the one to five micron range, and that required about 15 inches WC pressure drop. A 2000-bag collector with a dirty pressure drop of six inches WC cleaned up the rest.

   I don't believe a small system for less dense wood dust is feasible.  Blower HP would be very high.

   HarryD

2. 
   forestgirl | May 10, 2005 07:17pm | #11

   I'm familiar, second-hand, with industrial cyclones (hubby is an engineer who works on similar projects; retirement impending).  The woodworking cylones such as those made by Oneida are impressive (Tom showed his off at the Knots Fest in Seattle). 

   I guess if you took the set-up pictured above and took out that 180* turns at the top of the cyclone and at the top of the blower, it'd work pretty OK.  Just a funky way to set it up for demonstration!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

3. 
   Harryd | May 11, 2005 01:45am | #16

   Woodworking dust consists mostly of large -relatively speaking- woodchips unless the source is a sanding operation, so high effiency is not that important.  The cyclone I mentioned had an 1800HP syncronous blower motor and, if I remember correctly, 120 thousand cubic feet per minute.

   I hear that a major problem with woodshop dust control is material settling out in the conveyor lines.  In that case, a cyclone only has to be a wide point in the line to separate solids from the air flow. Removing very fine wood dust with a cyclone separator would require very high G-forces which requires high pressure drops.  Static delta-p on small blowers with induction motors (limited to 3600RPM)  usually is in the range of a few inches water column and thus the blowers do not have the necessary performance characteristics. 

   Home vacuum cleaners use a wound rotor-wound stator motor to get high RPM and blower delta-p of about sixty inches WC and greater at cutoff.  I am still reluctant to believe some of the bagless vacuum cleaner claims.

   HarryD

4. 
   TomMGTC | May 09, 2005 11:15pm | #6

   Since I have never used a trash can type seperator I can't really comment on their efficiency. I do have a 3hp oneida cyclone thet I added cannister filters to and i must say that it does an excellent job. Very little dust even makes it as far as the filters. I am redoing my whole system right now and I am using the 2729 pvc and I must say I like it a whole lot better than metal ducting. The whole installation is much easier and building custome blast gates and such is easier as well. I did have a heck of a time finding a local supplier of 6" duct. The whole system will be under the floor and should be a very nice installation complete with homemade automatic blast gates.  Tom

   Douglasville, GA

5. 
   nicobie | May 09, 2005 11:28pm | #7

   Hi Tom,

   If you get a chance, I'd sure like to see a pic of your automatic blast gates.

   I made one for my table saw using a air cylinder that's controled by a 24V solenoid. It works good but takes up alot of room. 

6. 
   TomMGTC | May 10, 2005 04:34am | #8

   I will try to get some pics when I get everything up and running. I am also using air cylinders. The gates aren't real small but most are mounted under the flooor so it isn't a big issue.Tom

   Douglasville, GA

7. 
   forestgirl | May 10, 2005 07:24pm | #12

   The 2729 PVC is what I plan to use when I get around to a "permanent" place for the DC.  Looking forward to seeing pics of the blast gates you're making! 

   What type of supplier did you find who carried the 6" stuff??forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

8. 
   TomMGTC | May 10, 2005 10:55pm | #14

   I was able to find the 6" 2729 at a plumbing supply house that is in a more rural area. I assume they use it in agriculture for something. It took a lot of phone calls to finally find a supplier though. The price was very reasonable at just over $1.00 a foot. I have found that just slipping th joints together and taping them with metal duct tape makes a perfect seal with no leakage. Goes together fast and should be fairly easy to disassemble in the event of a clog although I have never had to deal with that situation with any previous system so I don't envision ever taking it apart. Tom

   Douglasville, GA

9. 
   MarkRD | May 10, 2005 11:36pm | #15

   " I don't envision ever taking it apart"Famous last words :-)Thanks for the background on the pipe. I'm still in the DC scoping stage and this helps...mark

   Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.

10. 
    Jimma | May 10, 2005 04:39pm | #10

    Just for your amazement, here's what I do.... I have the one-horse Oneida cyclone unit. But, the unit is installed in a separate room off the shop which makes it a pain to empty the 50-gallon collector drum. So, whenever I'm jointing or planing and creating a big volume of chips, I put a trash-can separator next to the jointer or planer and hook the Oneida vacuum to it. It's a lot easier to empty the 30-gallon trash can and almost 100% of the bigger chips are caught before being sucked into the Oneida system. Works great!

11. 
    forestgirl | May 10, 2005 07:32pm | #13

    Consider me amazed!  Seriously, sounds like a fine idea to me, making things easier.  I'm considering one of those separators if for no other reason than to avoid the problem reported last week (who was that?) -- the DeWalt planer/cannister DC fiasco where the big stuff stuck into the cannister filter like pins in a pincushion!  I don't have a DeWalt, more's the pity, but a short run from the planer to the DC.

    In the meantime, I'm thinking about lining the heavy plastic bag under the cannister with a lighter bag.  The dust/chips that are in the bag swirl around whenever the DC is running, seems like they'd wear the bag out prematurely.  forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

2. 
   none | May 10, 2005 06:47am | #9

   I have built several (30+) of Wood magazines cyclones. Despite what Bill Pentz says all seem to think they do a great job. Mine has the blower from a Delta barrel top dust collector on it. For filter, I use socks from Onitea. Blower is 1HP unit originally made by Cinci. Fan.  Under the trash can I have a plentum chamber with  six openings, five of which contain socks, and the other is inlet from blower unit. Total size- 42" wideX 30" deepX 84" high. It is rigged to automatic sensor in power panel, so when the saw comes on, it does too. I added a cube timer (delay on  off) so unit would run 10 seconds after saw to clear pipes which are 4" PVC schedule 20. Sensor originally from FWW Aug 2000. The sensor cost about $100.00 total and is worth every cent of it! Turn on saw, dust col. comes on; turn off saw, dust col. shuts down after ten sec. Socks are 6" X 65" and can be bought from both Onitea and American Filter Fabrics- stock items.