Replies

1. 
   polarsea1 | May 22, 2009 09:22am | #1

   I've got a Laguna TSS which I bought used. There are some drawbacks and advantages to both kinds of saws. The TSS does take dado blades but it's not possible to make a zero clearance throat plate and ripping with the rip fence is not as convenient as a conventional saw because the slider pokes out in the back some. Having a scoring blade is very nice when cutting plywood. The riving knife on the TSS is a PITA to remove and realign but fortunately I don't need to do it often. They do a great job of crosscutting solid wood, flipstops on the crosscut fence make it completely repeatable.

   Dust collection is much better than any cabinet saw I've used, the blade is shrouded and connected to the dust port and the blade guard also has a dust port.

   If I was to buy one today, with my budget, I'd buy the Laguna Pro slider which comes with the support arm and a set of electrical controls right on the business end of the slider. Slighly longer slider than the TSS too.

   One thing to keep in mind these saw take up a great deal of room, especially if you get into the 8' range.

   Overall I'm much happier with the slider than with any of my previous saws which included a 1950 vintage Unisaw.

1. 
   jointerman | May 23, 2009 08:33am | #5

   Polarsea,The TSS is the one of the sliders I was considering because the slider isn't that large. I don't work with panels much and can use my Festool TS55 to break those down if I need to. Does the standard dado blade actually work with the TSS? I can only think that the shims that they sell increase the length of the arbor on the right side of the blade. What about service? I know that the sales guy didn't really know anything about the saw. As for a large slider, it'd never fit in my garage!

1. 
   polarsea1 | May 23, 2009 10:02am | #7

   Jointerman, 

   The TSS has the arbor on the right, you remove a large spacer to put a dado set on. I've never used mine because of the inconvenience of removing/replacing the riving knife. It really is a little bit of a project to realign the RK. That may be different on the new saws but mine is a 2002 model.

   The new model looks like a much better saw, I hated the rip fence on mine - kind of like a Beismeyer using railroad track for the rip fence. I replaced it with a Unifence. The controls on the old style saws are on the front left and are hard to reach when there is a panel on the slider - the new style have controls on the side and a Euro type fence.

   If you buy the TSS you should buy the 'positive miter stop table' as it assures complete repeatability when removing and replacing the crosscut table.

   Rick Kerrigan, the parts and accessories guy for the saws is topnotch and the tech I talked to when I was installing the miter table was helpful and knowledgable too. (I've never dealt with the sales staff.) If you need to talk to anyone in particular and have trouble getting them to return your call, just tell the lady who answers the phone and she'll light a fire under them.

   Check out that Laguna Pro 6', there's a review by a customer on the Laguna BB.

    

2. 
   gofigure57 | May 23, 2009 10:11am | #8

   "Does the standard dado blade actually work with the TSS?"

   Jointer,

    I have a tss and use a forrest dado king set, works just fine.  I ordered it with the scoring unit and have yet to use it since taking delivery of the saw over 3 years ago.

    I like the fence mounted as seen in photo on the far end of the table. eliminates the need to lift material over hold down clamp.

   I use this saw as strictly for cross cutting and straight line ripping as seen in photo. I have another saw for ripping . If I had to do both ripping and cross cutting on this machine my only complaint would be having to re-square the crosscut fence, not very  practical time wise as it needs to be removed for ripping. 

                                                           Tom.

    

    

   
2. 
   brownman | May 22, 2009 10:01am | #2

   I upgraded to a sliding table saw a little over a year ago. Besides the obvious advantage in squaring up pane there is also the advantage of having the scoring blade to make flawless cuts in melamine, laminate and veneered sheet goods. I know you can do this without the scoring blade with a good melamine blade. A good melamine blade without a scoring blade in front of it would have to be sharpened much sooner to avoid chip out. You could build cabinets for one kitchen, then you'd have to sharpen your blade.

   The particular saw I own(MiniMax) will except up to a 8" dado blade providing you don't put more than a 3/4" stack on it. Another advantage I like is being able to straighten the edges of boards by using the shoe and hold down. Before I was clamping longer boards to the workbench and using a long straight edge and router to straighten one edge.

   I kept my Powermatic 66 and keep it set up with a dado blade so I don't have to make another blade change. I was like you, I looked at them for probably three years before I finally just bit the bullet and made the purchase. I haven't regretted it! I love the fact that my panels are now all perfectly square and that it's so quick and easy to get them to that point. Making cut offs on larger and longer stock is absolutely effortless.

   As far as making a purchase it seemed like I was on the phone with sales people forever. I didn't care for the Felder line up or their sales people. If you go to their website their listed prices seem pretty good. That's because they sell their equipment stripped and you have to pay extra, a lot extra,to get everything that should come with it. They make quality equipment but IMO I just don't think their equipment is the best value,especially the way things are in our economy right now. The MiniMax people were easier to deal with and their machines were more reasonably priced and seem less complicated in design and operation. And the purchasing process was definitely easier.

   Right now would be a good time to look for a used one since many cabinet shops are going out of business. Find out what company in your town does auctions and check to see if any shops have gone out of business. The problem with this is most of the these are going to be in three phase power, but who knows you might get lucky and find one with single phase. Grizzly has a nice line up of sliding saws now and I wouldn't be hesitant to purchase from them now at all. I have owned several of their larger machines for three or four years now and haven't had any problems.

   Edited 5/22/2009 3:06 am ET by brownman

   
   

   ---

   Edited 5/22/2009 3:09 am ET by brownman

1. 
   jointerman | May 23, 2009 08:47am | #6

   Brownman,Thanks for the insights on the sliders. About a year ago I went out to the Mini-max showroom in Austin when Sam Blasco was still there. He was very helpful and the those machines are really nice. Which machine do you have that accepts dados?The C26 combo is another one of the machines that I'm considering, I don't think it'll accept a dado, but it has a shaper. The Felder shop is close to my parents house in Sacramento and I stopped by their shop. Now I can't seem to get them to stop calling me! The Grizzly G0623 would be in my shop if it was a little smaller. I don't do much panel cutting and it's a good sized slider. Also, the Grizzly doesn't take a dado blade, and I think that I'd miss that function.

1. 
   brownman | May 24, 2009 07:01am | #14

   I have the S315WS panel saw. It has an 110" wagon or carriage and it takes up quite a bit of room in my 600 Sq. Ft. shop. I've had it a year and a half now and just this week hitched up a permanent dust collection line to it. Another person posted in this thread said that he didn't like having to remove his cross cut fence so he could rip, as it was a hassle to remount it. On my saw I just slide the carriage all the way forward to get the cross cut fence out of the way, since I have it mounted at the head of the carriage, then I can rip lumber up to 8'. I've removed my crosscut fence a few times and then remounted it without having to readjust it for square. It was still dead on.

   Edited 5/24/2009 12:24 am ET by brownman

2. 
   jointerman | May 24, 2009 09:29am | #15

   brownman,Just an FYI, you might want to check out the WoodNet forums on the Grizzly G0623X Sliding TS. A new oner of the saw just posted a bunch of photos. It looks like a really nice machine and he showed how it was able to mount a dado blade on the saw. The size of the saw actually looks like it could work in my shop.

1. 
   brownman | May 25, 2009 07:57am | #18

   Jointerman,
   This is the size I was looking for three years ago. Had Grizzly carried it then I probably would have purchased it. This would have fit better in my shop as well. At least you can crosscut a sheet of plywood. I would have purchased this size but everyone that I spoke with convinced me to purchase one with a longer carriage.I'm glad I did in some ways in others I'm not. I would like to have a little more room in the shop and this would have been easier on the pocket book, but I'm glad I can cut full sheets length wise and cut straight edges on longer stock. If you don't mind giving those features up then I say go for it. I don't think you can beat that value anywhere.
   Danny

2. 
   sapwood | May 26, 2009 12:21am | #19

   Have you got a link for that posting on WoodNet? I looked all over for it and cannot find it. Perhaps it's buried within another topic? Thanks.

1. 
   jointerman | May 26, 2009 01:44am | #20

   Here you go, there are some really nice photos on this posting. Especially at the end where everyone is clamoring to see the dado blade mounted. Enjoy...

   http://tinyurl.com/oowkq6

1. 
   sapwood | May 26, 2009 02:33am | #21

   Thank you. It seems as if it's a very nice saw. Sort of an composite of a unisaw type cabinet saw and a euro slider. I wonder about the legs that support the infeed and outfeed tables. Would they be prone to being kicked or bumped out of position.....? I don't care so much about the dado capability but that would be useful especially for drawer boxes. There's much to consider there and the price isn't too outlandish as are the euro machines. (Unless one can justify it for a production shop.... which I don't have, don't want, and am moving further away from such every minute!)

3. 
   Hastings | May 22, 2009 08:50pm | #3

   Greetings Jointerman:

   I have a Felder combination machine (CF 741 P) with 8' slider.

   Advantages:

   • Accuracy and repeatability
   • Safety: riving knife, overhead guard and dust extraction, integral brake, cut-outs (if you open the case)
   • Hands are away from the blade at all times

   Disadvantages:

   • Cost (initial and for extras)
   • Footprint (they take up a lot of space

   In the case of the Felder, you need to specify a long arbor to take their dado and groove cutter. It's insert tooling, basically a shaper head that goes on to the saw arbor. It produces flawless dadoes.

   Felder service and support has been excellent. There are plenty of deals being offered at the moment.

   Good luck with your purchase.

   Hastings

4. 
   ring | May 23, 2009 06:47am | #4

   About once a year I'm tempted to write about the advantages of sliders. For instance:
   http://forums.taunton.com/fw-knots/messages?msg=32763.57

   David Ring

   http://www.touchwood.co.il/?lang=e&id=1

1. 
   jointerman | May 23, 2009 06:17pm | #10

   David,Nice summary of the sliding TS. I'm not sure what you mean when you wrote:"3) Any jig or attachment that you ever dreamed of that rides in those TS slots will work smoother and more accurately when attached to the sliding carriage."Is there a T-track slot on the sliding table? What kind of jigs can be attached to it?

1. 
   ring | May 23, 2009 07:24pm | #11

   My SCMI has a T-track in the carriage. The only original equipment that fits it is a clamp-down and a shoe that's sometimes used for ripping. But over the years I've made a few jigs that sit in the slot and use the carriage to glide accurately past the blade, such as in making tapered rip cuts.David Ring

   http://www.touchwood.co.il/?lang=e&id=1

2. 
   JerryPacMan | May 24, 2009 12:53am | #12

   Jointerman is correct.  Anything you attach to the slider will work smoother and more accurately.  The Felder/Hammer sliders have t-slots.  How about a Big Squeeze air clamp!!!   

   Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans.

   When your ship comes in... make sure you are not at the airport.

1. 
   FrankDrackman | May 24, 2009 01:05am | #13

   My MiniMax has a proprietary sized slot, much larger than a miter slot or conventional T-track.  I had of steel milled to the slot dimensions and tap it as needed to mount accessories.   I also slide T-track into the slot then mount the accessories to the T-track.

1. 
   JerryPacMan | May 24, 2009 03:50pm | #16

   Frank, I am curious as to what the MiniMax slot size is.  The Felder is 33mm and the Hammer is 22mm at the widest part of the t slot.   

   Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans.

   When your ship comes in... make sure you are not at the airport.

2. 
   FrankDrackman | May 24, 2009 07:21pm | #17

   My MiniMax CU300 Smart is 33mm wide.

5. 
   WillGeorge | May 23, 2009 03:07pm | #9

   I have a so called 'thought'.

   I love my slider table BUT not the big boys toys. I got mine bolted to my BigBox saw and I love it! Not sure if I like it more than my wooden 'slider fixture'

   I use it sometimes for angles.. All the other times my wood thing is the best all around. AND the slider table helps as in more surface to hold the stock that is being cut!

6. 
   cigarmike | May 26, 2009 09:25pm | #22

   I have had a Laguna Pro 6 for about 3 months now and love it. I went from a 1964 Delta/Rockwell Unisaw to this machine. Nothing wrong with the Uni; I just wanted to be able to crosscut sheet and solid stock without resorting to homemade sleds which were limiting at best. I am still on a learning curve with the slider, and currently in the process of devoliping some jigs and fixtures to take advantage of the capacities of this machine. Repeatability, accuracy, power, dust collection are all attributes of this type of machine. I often use the edging 'shoe' to rip solid wood without the use of the rip fence. And crosscutting is a breeze with the sliding carriage that attaches to the sliding table. This machine will extend out to shave a hair off the end of an 8 foot piece of plywood if needed. I wrote a short review of the machine on the Laguna message board if you are interested. And if you live anywhere near eastern North Carolina, you are invited to get a first hand look at the hardware.

   Good luck in your search. Michael Wilkins