I started with 3/8″ plywood stickers, then upgraded to 3/4″ plywood stickers for improved airflow between layers. Now I am looking to take it up another notch. I have heard of dogbone stickers but I think that cove stickers would be easier and quicker to make and just as good. The cove would face downwards. Does anyone see any advantages dogbones have over coves? Also what materials are best and which are the worst?
Chris @ flairwoodworks
– Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. – Albert Schweitzer
Replies
The "dogbone" stickers are intended for kiln drying. They make minimum contact with the lumber an are inert, in that they don't stain the boards during the process, like solid wood does. These are not issues with dried lumber that you may sticker in the shop. You could make some cove stickers if you want, particularly if you saw up logs for air drying. You need to choose a species that will not contribute to staining. High tanin species like red oak may not be a good choice.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Chris, While this seems like a good idea for keeping the sticker stain down, there is a trade-off. That would be the weakness of the sharp corners. I don't know how high you would be stacking your lumber, but I would bet that you would start having some splitting / collapse if the stacks start getting very high.
What kind of wood are you drying up there?
I'll dry whatever I can get my hands on as long as it appeals to me. Right now I have a few hundred feet of maple (some spalted) as well as some ironwood and holly. I also have turning blocks of black walnut and acacia. Most of my wood is stickered in a two-level shed (old playhouse). Each level is about 4 feet high. Stacks don't usually grow to be taller than 3 feet.Chris @ flairwoodworks
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Well, as I am sure that you already know, the weakest property of most wood, is tension splitting across the grain, so as you add the weight of the lumber on top, the inside of the arch of those stickers will be under tension. Since the weight from above centered over the arch, so I would suggest that you use something with high numbers to the cross-grain split resistance. I am not sure which soft wood that would be.If you are stacking four feet high, then you could estimate the weight by determining the cubic feet of lumber on top of each row of stickers. So if your stickers were placed every two feet, and the lumber was 4/4, then you could say that the bottom stick would have the equivilent of four cubic feet of wet wood on to of each one foot of length. I would use a rough estimate of water a 62.5 # times four, so you will likely have over 200# ~ 240# on each foot of that cove.If they snap, that will mess up your stack straightness.
I use Massandubra stickers with a dog bone profile or plain rectangular, whatever is availaable at the time and priced about 38 cents each. The problem with your cove model is it's going to break with much weight. yours= <( Dogbone= )(
The Massandubra are perfectly clear and durable...also called ironwood and are comparable to Ipe, but we use them over and over in a commercial shop.
RickL's opposing )( makes me wonder if you can cut a cove on one side, then couldn't you just do the same on the opposite, which would end up being the godbone.
)( My point exactly. We use 7/8" tall x 1-1/4" wide stickers. Other standard sizes are available. Sometimes the dogbone is available other times it's not. Got an order infor another 10,000 stickers so will see what I get.S
I don't see any point in going beyond a rectangle for most stickers. They do have high velocity kilns where they have stickers with raised flutes going at 45 degrees to the length of the sticker. Stickers can get very high tech and expensive, not really necessary on a small hobby or small commercial kiln. We use a Nyle L200 dehumidification kiln.
Chris, the plastic stickers below are popular with kiln operators in the UK and other parts of Europe. They're about £2 each + VAT. The company where I photographed this pile has something like £20,000 to £30,000 worth on hand. They do have the advantage of being inert, and how you orientate them depends on the timber being dried.
View Image
An acquaintance of mine in the US, Bill Tindall, photographed the grooved style of bearer shown below that goes at the bottom of a stack. Narrower versions with the same angled grooves are used for stickers.
Both are used to reduce the chances of sticker stain, but I imagine you might want to avoid the cost of buying the plastic stickers, although making your own might cost as much in time and labour as buying a bunch of stickers. I guess that depends on what your time is worth, and how much you have to pay for the wood to make your own.
You might notice grey marks running perpendicularly across planks if you use plywood stickers as you say you're doing now. I've found that the formaldehyde glue usually used to make plywood stains timber. Slainte.
View Image
Richard Jones Furniture
"how you orientate them depends on the timber being dried"
I don't quite understand why one would put the stickers the other way, opposite to how they're shown in the picture. While that would create more space between each layer, it looks like it would support less weight, as there is less support running vertically.
So far, I have not encountered any stains from the plywood that are not removed when dressing the lumber.Chris @ flairwoodworks
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
You might be right Chris, and I'm reasonably sure the timber yard I where I took the image uses them as pictured nearly all the time. If airflow isn't needed under and around the sticker to prevent mould growth and sticker stain I think they use wooden ones. Wooden ones are cheaper and made from suitable dry pine, mostly offcuts and scraps. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
I have to think that using the same specie for the stickers as what's being stacked will keep staining to a minimum, and since they don't need to be large, just vertically aligned, 5/4 square should be about right, They could be coved, if that is absolutely necessary. Why don't people use plastic dowel or pipe for air drying? I haven't seen PVC stain wood before.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Round stickers would roll making a very unstable pile.John W.
It can but common sense would cause someone to make sure it couldn't roll off. Wait- what am I saying?
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
No offence guys, This is pick nicking to the extreme.
Maybe, but you may live in a hot dry climate. If you live in a port town in BC, I doubt there are a lot of hot dry days. Maple and holly are hard to dry quick enough to avoid s-stain. Same for the iron wood, if it is hornbeam. So even if chris is buying the green lumber cheap, by the time he loads it, unloads, stickers and waits for it to dry. The wasted labor for handling firewood that much becomes costly fuel.
"The wasted labor for handling firewood that much becomes costly fuel."
I'm not quite sure what you mean by this.
I get my green lumber dropped on my driveway from a guy whom I trade my labour for milled green lumber. I am beginning to understand the challenges of dealing with lumber from its green state, namely acquiring wood years before you are ready to use it. Lots of planning and anticipation involved! No, not many hot days. In the summer (July - August), temperatures range from say, 18 degrees celcius to a high of 30. I don't know what kind of ironwood it is - haven't checked.Chris @ flairwoodworks
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Just that if you don't get it stacked with some drying air moving around it pretty soon, it can go bad pretty quickly. You mentioned having a shed or playhouse for the stacks, but do you get enough air moving through it, and then exhaust that air out etc. There is plenty that you can get wrong when it comes to drying lumber. If you don't get it right, then at least, you can use it to burn, but then you already have a lot of labor in handling it.
Keith.
The bottom level has no walls - just four posts holding the upper level up. The upper level has a back wall and two sides which span 2/3 of the way towards the front, which is completely open, for ease of loading/unloading. Each wall has a 30" square window which provides a little more air. I plan on removing the back wall so air movement can flow right through.Chris @ flairwoodworks
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
In my shop, I use mdf strips. It's cheap, and I've had no issues.
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it.
And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled