I am pulling the trigger on a Freud SD508. I will need an insert. I also want to make a zero insert for my PM2000.
What material would anyone care to recommend for making the insert(s) For the zero insert on My PM2000, I will need to allow for my riving knife. If someone has made the zero for the PM2000, Iwould like to know how they made the cut for the knife.
Replies
I make mine from 1/2" thick baltic birch. They are a perfect thickness match to the factory insert. I use double back tape to tape the factory insert to the top of the baltic birch to use as a profile template, and use a hand held router with a straight profiling cutter to reproduce the profile in the birch. Perfect fit every time.
Jeff
Edit: Another material that is supposed to work well, is prefinished factory hardwood flooring. I believe that is a composite material that is supposed to be well suited to use for tablesaw inserts. This is something I read somewhere, as I said, I haven't tried this material, although I plan to one of these days. If you try this, let us know how it worked out.
Edited 1/27/2008 10:29 pm by jeff100
Jeff, thanks for your reply.
Let me make sure I got it right. you double face tape your template blank onto the insert and use a top bearing pattern bit. You said straight profile cutter but I think you mean the standard flush trim bit.
If I am right so far, I assume you draw the profile and cut it close with the bandsaw so the router will operate with little resistance. To cut the profile on the bandsaw, would you remove the pattern material from the insert?
I have not used a pattern bit where the bearings run onto metal pattern. There is some space between the bearing and the edge of the bit. I'm thinking you would leave about 1/32 material and shave it off when done.
I have an excellent router table setup and I am wondering if I couldn't control the cut on it instead of a freehand router.
I have easy access to the baltic birch and will probably go with that as the material for the blank. I am also going to make several while I am about it.
Cool
Yes, you are right in your observations and assumptions. I did as you describe. I also did use a router table, now that you mention it. Funny how quick details are forgotten.I don't think I mentioned it, but I also glue a small tongue of wood into the insert behind the blade slot, to act as a splitter.Last, you might put a small chamfer round the periphery (I think I just sanded a chamfer on mine) on the top side and wax the top side.Good luck with your home made inserts, I think you'll find they work very well...Jeff
I make a template out of plexiglass as I go though many inserts ,I drill holes in my template where the leveling screws go. this allows me to screw the template down ,then use aflush trim bit on the router table & I use mdf for my inserts which is very smooth with just a little wax. plus the mdf is tapped for the leveling screws
Dan, Plexi (acrylic) is not the safest thing you could use to make templates or anything else out of when it's going to be near a spinning bit (or blade). That stuff can shatter in dramatic and dangerous fashion when it gets bumped by said bit or blade. If you get a chance to pick up some Lexan (polycarbonte) somewhere, it'd be a good idea to remake your template out of that and toss the Plexi.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FG, what's a good source for enough Lexan to make a blade guard for my crosscut sled? All I can seem to find online are large-quantity sources.
Norman,
Don't mean to barge in but I got mine at the local hardware store. They had a stack of cutoffs that they gave me enough to make the guard for the crosscut sled and the blade guard I am making. Also, might try a local lumberyard too.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Thanks!
Thank you, Bob, barge away! forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
forest girl, I think I forgot to mention that the plexi I use is a1/4" thick & much safer than running your factory template next to a router bit , whitch could destroy you template router bit &fingers. as well the template for my 1939 unisaw has been with me for 20 years so I doubt I will through it away any time soon. but thanx!
I use phenolic material acquired from scraps at plastic supply dealers. Drill & tap for leveling screws. This is the material PM uses for its zero clearance insert. I made a dado insert for my PM2000, so there was no slot for riving knife. You could probably cut blade slot w/ ts blade and then lengthen it with a scroll saw.
I usually use 1/2" melamine. The low pressure laminate takes wax pretty well and stays fairly slick. Baltic birch works good too but it seems whatever you use gets beat up fast, at least in my production shop.
So, when you get around to making the inserts do yourself a favor and make several.
Paul
I have used 1/2" MDF for my inserts because they are cheap to make and easy to cut. I noticed you used 1/2" melamine which I would prefer to use, but I havn't been able to find a source. Can you point me in the right direction?
1/2" melamine should be available at most hardwood/ plywood retailers. A few phone calls in your area should turn up a source. I use it very seldom in my cabinet business but when I do need it it comes from my regular local suppliers; Lumber Products, Beavertooth Oak, or Hardwood Industries.
One other thing I do when making my inserts is use short (1/2" -) screws on the bottom of the insert at the corners for leveling purposes.
Paul
I'll keep looking locally, and I check the Houston area also.
Thanks
"I will need an insert." Correction: You'll need to make several inserts, LOL. Make a bunch of blanks, anyway, and when you set up a new dado size, you can quickly make a zero-clearance plate for it.
when you set up a new dado size, you can quickly make a zero-clearance plate for it.
Hey, FG, I thought of that first - lol
Hello cool , I just made a dozen today out of 1/2" Baltic Burch , one thing I did not see suggested was to put a 3/4" finger hole for easier removal , which I used a 3/4" forstner bit , I also after sanding I wrote what the insert was used for ( 3/8" or 1/4" ) dado blade then waxed . Just a thought .
Dovetail, I was thinking that I would put the "what this is for" on the bottom side.
Thanks to all of you for an informative discussion. I will get my baltic birch tomorrow and start making inserts.
Thank you!!!
another vote for half inch baltic birch, although i had to put tinny shims on the bottom of mine to raise it up a bit..
But they all work just fine
I couldn't find any baltic birch, so I used some regular scrap plywood. Also used tape for shims. The one thing I did that I haven't seen done anywhere else was to paint them bright orange or yellow (whichever I had on hand at the time). I just wanted to make sure I knew where that blade was. Cut a larger than needed slot for the riving knife, make it good and wide. You need the air going in for the dust collector.
Daryl,
Excellent point about the air. As of now, I have a 1100cf DC dedicated to my saw. I know that is overkill. This is a second DC and I am goning to reconfigure my DC setup when I get a little spare time.
Thanks!!!
cool,
One other alternative that I read someplace and decided to try. I took the metal plate that came with the TS and stuffed some plywood on the backside/underside. Then on the top side filled the opening with epoxy. Works well.
The reason the factory insert has a wider slot is to allow the blade to tilt. You are not going to be able to tilt the blade with the zero clearance insert. Not without ruining the insert and probably trashing the blade anyway!
jeff100,
You're correct...that is the downside, you loose that flexibility of tilting the blade.
Jeff & BG -
Since my TS lets me lower the blade completely below the insert, I was able to make a zero clearance insert for some 45* miters I needed to do a couple of years ago.
I left the insert out and set the angle with the blade at full height. (These miters had to be dead-on perfect, so this took a while.) Then, I lowered the blade, dropped in a "blank" insert, started the saw, and s-l-o-w-l-y raised the blade thru the insert.
It worked like a charm and I was able to cut my miters in 1/2" Walnut plywood without any chipout.
Normally we keep dozens of table saw throat plates around to over all angles of blade tilt and various dado widths. Why folks only have one is beyond me. The best throat plate made was the Wood Dynamics one, which can be completely made of wood with a repacable insert or even better like this. http://www.woodcentral.com/articles/newarticles/articles_893.shtml
It's not rocket science.
Rick,
Yow! That's a process I'm not all that hot to trot with.
Really cool insert though. Replacement wood inserts should be a lot easier though and you could have sevaral for different tasks.
Thanks for posting - it's filed for when I get a lot bolder.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Seems I didn't get my point across. You could make the same thing entirely out of wood and still use the dovetailed replacable inserts. I keep dozens of spare inserts around for different angles, width dado's etc.
I've been cutting nonferrous for years with regular woodworking tools. It's not as bad as you think. That throat plate is really easy to make out of aluminum. One could probably make it out of cutting boarf plastic. HDPE I believe is the type of plastic.
http://www.evolutiononlineshop.com/Evolution_Rage/Evolution_Rage/Evolution_Rage_Saws/Evolution_Rage_Saw.cfm
RickL,
One of the concerns I have with all the home grown solutions is they never fit as tightly as the oem plates. I've had occasion to have the plate start to lift(from the front) when past the saw blade. It's not so hard to control once your aware, but, I do like the springs on the oem plates.
http://www.reidsupply.com/detail.aspx?R=PFB-201&ST=ball%20detente
I've used the small ball detente plungers to keep the throat plates tight. Smaller ones are also available. http://www.mcmaster.com
I have one of the Cental's up north. Tryed to get one here in FL for my Hybrid but Woodcraft doen't carry it anymore. Where do you get yours?
James
"I have one of the Cental's up north. Tryed to get one here in FL for my Hybrid but Woodcraft doen't carry it anymore. Where do you get yours?"
James
This what you are referring to...
http://www.wooddynamics.com/products/dru10.html
Can you be more specific on what part you are referring to. I personally think the Wood Dynamics insert is the best next to just making a stack of several dozen out of shop scraps. Wood Dynamics is out of business at the moment so I can fab up my own Wood Dynamics throat plate out of wood, plastic, or even brass. I also realize some saw plates are very thin on the edges so it's not as easy as grabbing some 1/2" scrap plywood and whipping up something.
Hi RickL,
Wood Dynamics throat plate. That's an elegant solution.
Paul
Rick: The one I have is alum w/ a hardwood insert. I made a bunch of cherry inserts for thin kerf, etc. I want to buy one for my other saw a Delta Hybrid, which is left tilt. My contracters TS is a right tilt.
James
That wide slot doesn't make for a great cut in many materials, hence the habit of making a zero-clearance plate for different angles. I haven't ever used the factory insert for my table saw.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I also used 1/2" baltic birch ply. I drilled through and screwed in 5/16" coarse thread, hex head set screws for adjusters. They will cut their own threads as you screw them in and work just like OEM level adjusters.
Regards,
Mack"WISH IN ONE HAND, S--T IN THE OTHER AND SEE WHICH FILLS UP FIRST"
Good idea with the screws, i guess i sort of just figured that the depth would never change so shims would be fine, More than one way to skin a cat i guess.
Yeah, in practice once the screws are in and set, there is almost never a need to adjust them but due to the possible variation in plywood thickness I think they are a good idea to begin with.
Regards,
Mack "WISH IN ONE HAND, S--T IN THE OTHER AND SEE WHICH FILLS UP FIRST"
I make mine for a Delta Unisaw from 1/2" mdf and cover them with a formica face. I use contact cement to attach the formica. I use the original metal insert as a guide and cut the blanks a little oversize on the bandsaw. I douple stick tape the original insert to the cut blank and use the router table and a flush trim bit to trim the profile to match the original. Drill a 3/4" hole near the operator side of the insert offset from the blade to allow easy removal. I also use screws like the original used for leveling screws and ones in the sides to adjust the lateral fit to fit the tabls saw top opening. The screws came from a fastener supply house locally and are #8 self threading flat head phillips. 50 of them cost about $2. I adjust the fit to be a scraping fit. Routing a half depth stopped dado on the bottom in the blade location allows the insert to be inserted over the retracted blade and then after clamping with a piece of scrap wood, I do not use my unifence to clamp, the saw is started and the blade slowly raised through the insert to form the zero clearance slot.
Different blades require different inserts so I make a bunch at a time. It is quick and easy after you have glued a sheet of laminate to the mdf to cut and trim several at one session. I use the same blank to make inserts for the different width dados that I cut and also have one at 45 degrees for common miter cuts. I can probably make a half dozen inserts in an hour or so after the laminate is applied.
Home Depot locally sells 2' x 4' sheets of mdf and also 2 X 4 sheets of laminate. Color of the laminate is not important so I usually grab whatever is cheap. Chipped sheets or scrap from a cabinet shop work just fine.
Bruce
I just did this over the weekend on my PM2000. It was complicated by the riving knife as mentioned. I used a pattern-maker bit in conjuntion with the OEM insert to get "pretty close" to the finished dimension. I cut a finger hole and marked the general location of the kerf. On the back end, I put a little washer/screw combo so that the probability of the blade catching and throwing the insert was decreased a little. Since I used scrap plywood (5/8? 1/2?) I had remove a little on the bottom side where it rest on the supports, since the OEM insert is quite thin. I also had to remove a little directly over the blade, since the blade is only about 1/8" below the level of the table. After a little trial and error (getting the shape to fit in the hole, and getting the depth of the support bearing surfaces right), I got the insert to fit snugly and flush. Then, I clamped the insert and raised the blade to cut the slot. To get the riving knife slot, I put in the OEM insert, flipped my insert over and used the table saw to extend the first slot. A scrollsaw would probably work just as easy.
One thing that I forgot was allowing space for the blade stabilizer. And I might add some stiffening ribs lengthwise. Last night I noticed the insert flexing a little. It's a long piece of relatively thin wood. The riving knife requires the opening in the table to be longer than on older saws.
For my Lurem I make the inserts from the plastic used in banks to guard cashiers. I went to a specialist and got an offcut at a reasonable price on the promise it would be cut up, it will not shatter.
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