Hi all, I’m usually over at Breaktime so please bear with the remedial finishing questions. I’m about to put up a red oak handrail in my stairway. I plan on finishing it with amber/orange (regular zinsser canned) shellac. My house has amber shellac’d pine woodwork so I’m hoping this will be a decent match.
Besides sanding the piece smooth, what do I need to do for finishing? I’m pretty much a shellac newbie. Do I need to fill the pores with something first, and if so what? I’m thinking like 7 coats of shellac and then, maybe some wax. What sort of wax should I be using here?
Thanks for your help.
Bob
Replies
Bob,
My worst nightmare in finishing wood was in using a Minwax sealer-stain on red oak chairs. A phenonenon called "bleed back" ocurred in which the sealer "leaked" out of the chairs for weeks after I put it on. There were a lot of tiny puddles,which I would wipe up and which would return. I did put the sealer on very liberally and wiped it down very well. I then did a literature search on this, and I called Minwax. I was not the first to discover this problem with red oak. Its cellular structure is like lots of little straws. I solved the problem on the remaining red oak chairs by putting only small amounts of sealer-stain on.
So that is one solution - small amounts of a Minwax stain that is similar to the color that you are looking for, followed by two or three coats of Minwax polyurathane varnish. The last coat I put on is the satin finish. Polyurathane will hold up to just about any abuse, except being put in the sun for too long. Shellac will turn white if water puddles on it, and alcohol will dissolve shellac. I have done handrails and steps, and successfully used the Minwax sealer followed by the varnish, as I described.
If you want to start with the shellac, you can use that insted of the Minwax sealer, and follow it with three or four coats of polyurathane. I don't have any experience with using shellac on a handrail.
If you decide to go the Minwax route and to use the sealer-stain first, you should call Minwax first and ask if they have any suggestions for its use on red oak. You might use Google and check for problems with finishing red oak (and the problem of bleed back). When I talked to the Minwax folks, they told me not to use their polyurathane over shellac, but I have never had any problems with it. I called another time and that Minwax person said that there is no problem with putting their poly over shellac. "Life is hard." By the way, I am not "pushing" Minwax. My brother suggested it to me decades ago, and I have become familiar with it and some of its problems, but it works for me. Now I always do a test piece if I am doing something unfamiliar (eg new type of wood to me).
I am sure that you will want to get advice from folks other than me. I hope that my personal experience is of some use to you. If you are going to use a sealer-stain on the red oak, try it out on a scrap piece first and check to see if you get the bleed-back. Putting more coats on lightly will solve the problem. Putting one soaking coat on will probably not go well.
Best of luck.
In my opinion, shellac is not going to withstand the hands that will go over it on a hand rail. You can put a coat of shellac on your wood to match up with your other wood, but a more durable finish such as varnish will hold up better as a topcoat. If you use non-poly varnish over your shellac it will adhere fine.
Gretchen,Thanks for your input. I know shellac isn't all that strong and I'm okay with having to touch it up every so often - but that's why I was contemplating a wax top for durability. Zinsser amber shellac is not dewaxed anyway, so putting poly or varnish over it would, theoretically, not work out so well - though I've heard some have gotten it to work in practice.The wood pore filler is my main concern as I have no experience with that.
First you can buy dewaxed shellac--Seal Coat is dewaxed.
Second, you can put non-poly varnish over any kind of shellac.
I think the wax will get sticky from hands running over it.
Gretchen
Edited 5/9/2006 7:43 am ET by Gretchen
BobS,
I think there is a special color that evolves when shellac is applied to pine..that pumpkin pine look..and your oak can only hope to be kinda close. Assuming your talking about a single pole grab rail, it might be wise to think about making it much darker...like an antique cherry or mahogany with the shellac on top...and wipe on varnish on top of that.
There is an existing shellaced railing and newel post on the opposite wall that I'm trying to mimic. So I can't make it much darker. I will try the shellac on a test piece first. I don't really expect to match all the trim, but I'd at least like to match the other railing - or get close. I guess everyone here is pro varnish.
I don't think varnish is necessary on a stair railing. This is one place where you don't set a glass, or use nail polish, etc. It's so easy to touch up dings that there is a real advantage.
Steves right. 4 or 5 coats and wax. Will hold up fine. If you're worried apply non poly varnish as a finish coat over waxed shellac...JImmy.
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