Can someone recommend a setup for sharpening chisels and planning irons. I build furniture!
To date, I have used sand paper attached to 1″ thick lexan for sharpening. This was an economical approach over the purchase of stones but, I feel there is a better way because of the rapid wear of the paper.
My dilemma is what to use and why; diamond stone, water and/or oil stone, flattening requirements and grit or micron sequence has my head spinning. This equipment is expensive enough that I don’t want to go through a trial and error exercise.
Can someone make a recommendation, based on experience, of what I should consider purchasing to get the job done.
Thanks in advance.
Replies
A relatively inexpensive setup might be the following:
My normal sequence is:
Note that I don't normally use the coarse diamond stone or the 220 side of the waterstone. (I do use them for other things, like gardening tools.)
-Steve
Steve,
What do you use the 220x / 1000x Norton stone for? What grits are on you diamond stone?Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
I use the 1000 side as the first honing step after rough shaping with the diamond stone. The diamond stone is 220/325.
-Steve
RonT,
I don't think I have all the answers but I have made it fairly simple. My setup is quick and relatively non-messy and the tools are working quite well.
The components are: 1000, 5000 shaptons, green rouge, 600 W&D paper, a bench hook, 12"x1/4" granite tile, veritas II, piece of 1/4" hard board, windex spray bottle with water.
Mostly I hone, resharpening is infrequent. Everything is stored on the bench hook and can be put into place quickly. The granite goes on top of the bench hook and can accommodate W&D papers for sharpening with a little spritz from the windex bottle. Also, I can reflatten my sharptons on the W&D on the granite...a few pencil marks on the face, rub till gone.
Here is where I get a bit fancy on my setup. I have routed out a space for the shaptons on the bench hook such that the top of the stone is flush with the granite. I do this because I keep the Veritas on the ganite and side-sharpen on the shapton. I really like the side sharpening, my sense is any irregularities in the stone surface is negated. At any rate, with just a spritz of water, the honing is done quickly. I go through the 1000, 5000 and finish up with green rouge on hardboard...all while still in the veritas. Good luck with your pursuit.
Keep it simple.
Medium India Stone and a hard Arkansas. (And perhaps a strop if you'd like -- I'm still not sure I'll keep using the strop, depends on my mood at any given time.)
That is really all you need. I've gone through all the various setups and landed on this one, my edges are as good as any other setups I have used (from Sandpaper to Shapton waterstones).
-Dean
Ron,
My current set-up includes a Norton 4000x / 8000x combination waterstone and a DMT 8" 600x / 1200x combination diamond stone. This combination works well, but if I were to do it again, I'd get two individual waterstones as opposed to the combo and a 325x / 1200x diamond stone. I use O1 steel blades and hone them regularly. Use the diamond stone to flatten the waterstones.
To hone the blade, I use either the Veritas MKII honing guide or go freehand, honing only on the pull stroke.
Chris @ www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
It does kind of depend some on what you're sharpening. Theres a gamut of simpler answers for flat tools like plane irons than there is for gouges or curved tools. All the above works.
My own setup, I have a regular grinding wheel that almost never gets used because it has to be bad to need it. I have a Tormek which I like pretty well and use a lot for almost everything. It will flatten backs to a degree, and it puts a good bevel on just about everything. But I also have, and use, a DMT and 3 separate waterstones. Depends on what you're sharpening and how far. I really like the results after 4000 grit but they're short lived on something like a mortise chisel.
I have also used wet/dry paper and a jointer bed for flattening plane bodies.
I guess what I like most about the Tormek (especially since it got paid for over a decade ago!) is the versatility. Its not "perfect" but it will get everything you use it on passably sharp, and everything that you need to go further on, its pretty quick, and consistant, leaving you just a few strokes on higher grits if you want to go there.
Real trucks dont have sparkplugs
Ron,
I have an old Norton combination India stone, which I use right after grinding and then I follow with 800,1000,1500 and 2000 grit 3M wet and dry paper. At each step, it only takes a few strokes (the bulk of the time is spent at the coarse side of the India stone), so the paper lasts a long time. I think I have changed paper only once this year, twice at the most.
Rob Millard
http://www.americanfederalperiod.com
Thank you all for your input.
I conclude that I may using the wrong technique in that I push on my W&D instead of pulling and I'm shaving off the grit.
I do like how quick W&D works and will give it another try.
I think the problem now and forever is the coarse abrasive. The fine abrasive is the easy (and fun) part. You have to decide about getting a grinder if you don't already have one and how you will use it. You need a really coarse abrasive stone of some sort- take your pick- diamond, a synthetic oil or water stone, or sand paper. The problem I have with the carborundum or water stones is that they must be flattened. They cut great and if you are careful with them will require only minimal maintenance. Carborundum is an excellent inexpensive choice that doesn't get the attention it deserves. The diamond and sand paper solve the dishing problem, but each has its own troubles. I'm not sure what grit the extra coarse diamond is. I know that some of the diamonds come off and the resulting grit is higher than what you started with. But that's true of sand paper. (actually it may not be grit that changes but how aggressively the media works).I think the reason there are so many opinions is because there's no clear winner. If you stick with the sand paper route, switch to micro abrasive films with PSA backs like those my friend Joel sells at toolsforworkingwood.com These are a major improvement over paper backed abrasive sheets. But they aren't available in very coarse grits.Lastly, you mentioned only chisels and plane irons. I don't care for sand paper for carving tools. I find I cut the paper. Also, I don't mind and may even benefit from the dished shape of the oil stones I use. I don't use water stones for this because I don't have any at present. But I suspect they would be a fine substitute.Adam
Ron
Lots of great ideas, I use a Jet/Tormek to set my edge, then go to the 4000/8000 norton stones. I have a 1200 japanese water stone I use occasionally. Choping a bunch of maple dovetails today and using the 8000 to maintain the edge once or twice keeps it sturdy and sharp. As always no, right or wrong, just getting it sharp when you work is essential.
AZMO
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-------(*)/ (*) http://www.EarthArtLandscape.com
Like another person mentioned, I use the diamond stones for the initial prep then on to waterstones. I keep a fine/exfine dmt diamond stone for quick touch up and found it to be handy.
My addition: I use diamond past after 8000 honing. It is great for carving tools. You can put a little on any size dowel and hone the inside of a gauge very quickly. I was a little hesitant to use/invest in the stuff but after talking with G. Hack I decided to give it a try. I'm impressed. Just a thought.
dan
Simple. A 6” high speed grinder with a 60 grit white wheel for a good hollow grind. A fine India oil stone, (not used much), and a hard white Arkansas oil stone, (used all the time). That’s it nothing more. Sandpaper is for wood, diamonds are for rings and jigs are a crutch.
Edited 6/2/2008 3:06 pm ET by Napie
"and jigs are a crutch" and jack daniel,s is a wheel chair...
No, Jack Daniels (no apostrophe or comma required), is not a wheel chair, but one may be needed after consuming it….
<!----><!----> <!---->
“Jig free and proud of it!” <!----><!---->
no,i'm looking at jack daniel's memorabilia and its spelled daniel's.
this is from a robin williams stand up act in which he says "if alcohol
is a crutch, jack daniel's is a wheel chair"
Your right. And that was a great stand up routine!
42007.14 in reply to 42007.1
Simple. A 6” high speed grinder with a 60 grit white wheel for a good hollow grind. A fine <!----><!---->India<!----> oil stone, (not used much), and a hard white <!----><!---->Arkansas<!----><!----> oil stone, (used all the time). That’s it nothing more.
Hi Napie
No arguements from me about your set up. I developed a comparable one(although it involved a cheap honing guide) for a teacher friend to use in his primary school class: 600 grit wet&dry, Veritas green rouge. http://www.inthewoodshop.com/WoodworkTechniques/The%2010%20Cent%20Sharpening%20System.html
My preference is a set of 3 Shaptons, 1000/5000/8000, and an old barber's leather strop (which I use between honings). Much of the time I get by with just a leather strop (I have two - one loaded with green rouge and the other plain).
Sandpaper is for wood, diamonds are for rings and jigs are a crutch.
I can tell from this that you do not use BU planes with high cutting angles! :)
I find sharpening an irritating interruption of my handwork. What I like about BD planes is that I can quickly freehand them (on a hollow grind primary bevel) with little concern about the angle of the secondary bevel. Unfortunately, few BD planes (and I own and use quite a large number) have a bed high enough to provide the planing power to deal with the highly interlinked and hard Australian timber. So I turn to BU planes for this area. Now BU planes, as you know, obtain their cutting angle from the bevel angle (in conjunction with the bed angle, which is low). One has to hone a secondary bevel at a (near) specific angle - you don't just guess at this. So the efficiency of this process lies in using a honing guide. This is not an issue for those who use honing guides anyway. As I noted earlier, it is not my preference (I am not patient enough), but the proof of the pudding lies in the eating, as is said, and the performance of the BU planes is there for all to see. The situation/choices may have been quite different if I only worked with relatively easy grains. Then I may have stuck with BD planes and a simple honing system.
Regards from Perth
Derek
I own only two BU planes, my low angle block plane and a L-N low angle jack and it is used primarily on a shooting board. For the timbers I use, including some pretty gnarly crotch cherry and walnut my weapon of choice is an L-N 4 ½ with a <!----><!----><!---->York<!----><!----> pitch frog. I suspect the woods you use are far more difficult to get a good result on.
Hi Napie
I have the LN Anniversary #4 1/2 (with York pitch). It is a wonderful plane, but it still will fail on some of the stuff I work. I need an even higher angle of attack. I'd love to see LN come out with a 60 degree frog. That would be a killer!
As am experiment, try your LAJ with a 50 degree microbevel (= 62 degree angle of attack) on the mangiest board that dares call itself wood, and report your findings here! :)
Regards from Perth
Derek
I think waterstones suck, but that's what I use, and I have too much invested in then to change to a power sharpener. They suck mainly for the time it takes to break them out, soak them, flatten them, go through the various grits with whatever you are sharpening. I need to come up with a stand alone sharpening "station." I've seen the plastic tackle box approach for sale... not interested. Anyone have any pics of a dedicated table or bench where they have their water stones set up on a permanent basis? I have an idea, but looking for a nice example. thanks.
Yet another reason to stay with good old oil stones!
Sykesville,
I don't know how frequently you use your waterstones, but I use mine quite regularly. I keep them submerged in a tray of water and take them out and sit them on my bench when using them. I also keep my blades in good shape, so a quick honing (2 min, tops) is all that's needed. As long as I stay on top of keeping the stones flat (which I do after every tool) it takes very little time to reflatten.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Ron -
Two set-ups. One is the one I use, and the other is the one I'll recommend.
What I use:
1) Tormek for a hollow grind on the bevel (this is required - flat bevels from the factory will only be flat a very short time, after a couple of sharpenings, they'll be convex, which makes further honing w/o a jig very difficult)
2) Coarse (220 grit) diamond DMT for initial back-flattening.
3) Norton synthetic japanese water stones: 1000 grit, 4000 grit, 8000 grit
4) Inexpensive chinese-made granite surface plate from Woodcraft for flattening the waterstones with wet/dry sandpaper.
What I'd recommend (to cut down on the cost, mess and learning curve):
1) Standard bench grinder with coarse, open wheel for hollow-grinding.
2) Set of DMT diamond grit stones from Woodcraft - special offer this month, three stones in fitted box, $100 (600, 1200, and 8000 grit - http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=20916)
One of the reasons you find that the wet/dry wears out too quickly may be the hardness of your irons. Wet/dry is silicon carbide, which is not as wear-resistant as aluminum oxide (or ceramic in the high-tech 3M papers). I find that I can effectively flatten the back of new Lie-Nielsen and Veritas blades on Wet/Dry, but Hock irons (either the bailey replacements or infill replacements) is a whole different story. The only effective way I've found for these super-hard irons is the 220 grit diamond stone - even an aluminum oxide belt on my belt sander is very reluctant to take anything off the hardened Hock blades. In use, though, they're superb - I find that I sharpen/hone them about a third as much as LN or LV irons.
I have been woodworking for three years and I have wasted a TON on sharpening. In the end here is what I have found works for me.
I dont use a motorized grinder becuase it takes a long time to learn how to use without "bluing" your blades.
I use an eclipse type "side clamping" honing guide. I also have a Veritas honing guide for shoulder plane blades, and skew chisels.
I grind on a two sided diamond stone, it has the very couse "black" on one side and the coarse "blue" on the other. I use the blue mostly for the tools. I use the black to flatten the honing stones.
I recommend that you get the Norton waterstones they have a two sided stone that is 1000 grtit on one side and 8000 grit on the other.
That kit should get you going. For a really good description of the process, read Chris Schwartz' sharpening article from the web.
i like to use this sharpener. the stone moves side to side keeping your edge true and the resevoir at the top drips water on the stone keeping your blade cool.
Every day is a gift, that's why it's called the present.
here's a shot. i hope it's small enough.
Every day is a gift, that's why it's called the present.
To avoid risking mineral oil on work in progress, I switched to water stones a few years ago and have been satisfied. I tried sandpaper but found that after only a couple minutes of use a piece of sandpaper was cutting much less aggressively than when new.
Between grindings on a soft white 80 grit 8" wheel, I'll get 3 or 4 honings on 1000 and 4000 grit waterstones.
One tip I picked up from a Rob Cosman video was to buy a pair of 1000 grit water stones. My tupperware box has room for both on edge as well as a 4000 grit waterstone during honing (stored dry between uses). After a few minutes of use on one surface of a 1000 stone, I'll use the other side. When I'm concerned about an uneven surface, I'll crosshatch with a soft pencil and "hone" the four surfaces against each other until the hatch marks gone.
No better or worse approach than anyone else's.
I belong to a woodworking club on Long Island NY.
We have about 300 members. Most of us prefer the Work Shop WS3000
It really does a great job
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