Replies

1. 
   sschefer | May 29, 2002 12:27am | #1

   Jon, I believe that the WoodWorkers clubs are sponsored in part by WoodCraft. There are currently four or five active ones but none in your area. The WoodCraft stores in CA are in Santa Rosa, Sacramento and San Francisco so it doesn't sound like that will be much help. However, if you're really serious about this you might check out their website http://www.woodcraft.com and look in "The WoodWorkers Club" area. You might be able to contact someone there about how to get one going in your area.

   Steve - in Northern California

2. 
   Ricky_Yu | May 30, 2002 01:21pm | #2

   Yes, the Woodworker's Club recently closed down in Santa Ana, a victim of rising rents and operating costs. Have you considered a school? I know Cerritos College has an excellent program, and their shop is well-equipped. I don't know if you will have access to the shop as much as if you would at a club (what with classes going on and so forth), but I do know that the tuition is considerably less than the initiation fee and monthly dues of a club.

1. 
   user-6950710 | May 30, 2002 06:40pm | #3

   I actually just finished a beginner's class at fullerton college.  The shop is closed for the summer for cleaning, but I don't think I'll take another because of the 6 hours a week time committment.  It's definitely cheap ($45 total) but I wanted more convenient times.  I got to know the teachers at fullerton, so I'll try to use the shop next semester for small things without enrolling.  Too bad about the Club though.  It's a great idea.

   Edited 5/30/2002 11:44:36 AM ET by Jon Tator

3. 
   KurtAllen | May 31, 2002 12:21am | #4

   Check these guys out.  They appear to be as close to what you described as I have ever heard.  Never been there myself... to far to drive from Atlanta. 

   http://www.woodworkersplace.com

   Kurt

   (Oops!  just checked the site to make sure that it worked and it looks like you have less than 24 hours before they close their doors for good.)

   
   

   ---

   Edited 5/30/2002 5:28:48 PM ET by KURTALLEN

1. 
   user-6950710 | May 31, 2002 01:36am | #5

   Yea, looks like they're going under too.  Damn!  Out of curiousity, how did hear of the place.  Internet search?  If so, what keywords did you use?  There's got to be more of these type of shops in LA (not like it's a small place), but having lots of trouble finding them.  Thanks.   Jon

1. 
   Elcoholic | May 31, 2002 02:14am | #6

   Jon,

   I live in FV (Brookhurst and Garfield) so we're practically neighbors.  When the Woodworkers Club Santa Ana went out of business they had a silent auction.  I talked to the owner, Ron, about their Performax drum sander but it wasn't going to be sold because he was putting it in a new co-op shop.  You might be able to track him down through the Woodcraft organization.  Also check with Orange Co. Woodworkers Association, they'd know if anybody would.  They've been around forever.  Get a hold of a copy of Woodworker West (Austin or Rockler for sure, maybe even Barnes and Noble) and they'll be listed.  OCC used to have a wood working program, but I don't know if they still do.  If you have access to 1000' +/1 sf of real cheap industrial tilt-up in HB, FV, or CM I have the equipment and we could possibly work something out.

   John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking

   Life is tough.  It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne

   Edited 5/30/2002 7:15:56 PM ET by ELCOHOLIC

1. 
   user-6950710 | May 31, 2002 03:35am | #7

   Thanks for the info.  I will definitely look into those.  Unfortunately, I don't have access to any spare space, though I still think that the whole idea is sound, business wise.  Something definitely to keep in the back of my mind.  Thanks again for the info.  Jon

1. 
   iloveeva | May 31, 2002 05:01am | #8

   It sure sounds like a good business idea to me.  I would pay good money for something like that in the San Jose, CA area.  -Richard

2. 
   Alan | May 31, 2002 05:57am | #9

   I also talked with Ron the last day his OC Woodcraft/shop closed for good.  It did seem like a good idea (according to Ron) until you actually get into the numbers.  He said that there were too few people using his shop to support it (he had a very large store-front operation in high rent Orange County).  But he said the real killer was the liability insurance.  Small wonder.  I can just picture the insurance agent cringing when he heard "operating power saws" and "the general public" in the same sentence.

   Alan

3. 
   SgianDubh | May 31, 2002 06:39am | #10

   Alan, Insurance? I can't get anybody to quote a premium. It's embarrasing. I'll throw $20, 000 worth of finished goods in the back of my van, and it's all uninsured. My whole business is uninsurable, or so it seems. Sorry to turn this whole topic in another direction, but none of the big insurers seem to want to know about writing wee policies for one man furniture design and make businesses. Now maybe Taunton could do something really useful and talk to a few insurance companies and see if they can come up with some sort of 'group' policy that one-man-bands like mine could sign up for, e.g., liability, insurance of the piece during construction, insurance of the workshop and its contents including tools, insurance of the finished product in transit, insurance whilst we install the piece on the customers premises, etc..

   In the UK, GMC publications, the publishers of Furniture & Cabinetmaking have come up with just such a deal for business's such as mine. Anybody at Taunton interested in taking a look at this issue? Slainte, RJ.  

   Link to RJFurniture site.

   Edited 5/30/2002 11:41:42 PM ET by Sgian Dubh

4. 
   UncleDunc | May 31, 2002 06:56am | #11

   On the other hand, someone reported in an insurance thread on Breaktime, his perception that companies that have liability insurance get sued more often than those that don't. If you can shelter your personal assets from company liabilities, you might be better off without insurance.

5. 
   SgianDubh | May 31, 2002 07:13am | #12

   Dunc, sheltering personal assets? I followed the normal route for woodworkers to become a millionare. I started with 2 million, ha, ha. All this said in jest. Slainte, RJ.Link to RJFurniture site.

6. 
   UncleDunc | May 31, 2002 07:55am | #13

   That's like the one about the farmer who won the lottery. When people asked what he was going to do with the money, he reckoned he'd keep farming til it was all gone. :)

7. 
   ggrager | May 31, 2002 08:19pm | #14

   Have any of you all heard of a PEO?  The company I work for (only 7 employees) couldn't afford group insurance until we found out about PEOs.  They are kind of new but a great alternative for small companies.  They offer health insurance plans with coverage that rival those of BIG corporations, 401Ks, Payroll, AFLAC, etc.  You actually become a co-employee with the PEO company and your own.  That way they have hundreds or thousands of employees that can go together to buy insurance, etc.  Its a little hard to explain in a short message.

   A great web site to visit is http://www.peo.com

   Check it out.  They are pretty cool.

   RAGMAN

8. 
   SgianDubh | Jun 01, 2002 06:57am | #17

   Thanks Ragman. I'll check out that site. Slainte, RJ.Link to RJFurniture site.

9. 
   Alan | May 31, 2002 08:22pm | #15

   Sgian,

   Insurance is always available--at a price.  Even the satellites sitting on top of a rocket, full of explosive fuels, with each part made by the lowest bidder on a government contract are insured--but the premium is generally anywhere from 1/4 to 1/2 the cost of the satellite (several million dollars).  You need to find an agent that wants to work a little harder.

   Alan

10. 
    sschefer | May 31, 2002 08:52pm | #16

    Richard, I work as a technical consultant at Fireman's Fund Insurance Co. The insurance market is extremely hard right now.

    Essentially, Insurance companies are financial institutions and rely heavly on investments to build the assets required to pay claims and produce profits.

    Many of the insurance companies are having financial difficulties because of market changes and invested business failures. In essence, they are simply not allowed to write a policy that has anticipated losses. Some companies have gone so far as to only write policies for the affluent and have completely dropped their personal business insurance lines.

    One alternative is the Surety Bond but these are considered short term and are very specific as to accountability for loss. Sometimes, they are the right choice for contractors.Steve - in Northern California