I have a pretty complete set of hand planes, but I do not have a scrub plane. I have a lot of wide black walnut boards that I can not joint with my machines, I’m thinking that a scrub plane might just be the ticket to flattening these wide boards. I’m thinking about making a scrub plane or should I just bite the bullet and buy one???
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Replies
Please don't everyone flame me, but "scrubbing" is the only success I've had with old Stanley planes. You might find one relatively inexpensive, and grind/hone a curve on the blade. Get it as sharp as you can, to make it easier to push. Scrub plane needs wide mouth opening.
Just my two cents, please no personal attacks.
I bought a Lie Nielsen, and absolutely love it. Scrubbing is one of the most enjoyable woodworking activities I do. Total blast. That said Chris Schwarz over at Woodworking Magazine knows a lot more about woodworking than I do, and he swears by using a BD Jack with a highly cambered blade for this application. I believe he uses an old slightly restored cheap Stanley with great results. His argument is that the longer sole of the jack reduces the risk of creating one problem while trying to solve another with a scrub. I haven't had this problem, but your mileage may vary. See:
http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/cSchwarz/z_art/scrubPlanes/scrubPlanes1.asp
Best,
---Pedro
Pedro!
Wot a pleasure to see you back here. Whare been? What doin'?
Lataxe
PS Have ye not got a lovely big Ypean planer-thicknesser yet then? Still, you will have a splendid scrubbing muscle instead.
Sire,
It's good to be back. I've been wallowing in countless excuses for not finishing any of several ongoing woodworking projects. That is, until my better seven eighths began another project of her own. He's due December 27th, and I promised her hardwood floors in the back of the house. Of course I can barely afford lumber, much less the installation, so I'm doing everything myself. Wouldn't be so bad if we hadn't decided to facenail all the boards with 3" wrought iron square nails... and if I hadn't decided to install the floors on the diagonal.At least it's coming out well.In any case, that's gotten me back into the shop, and I'm now seriously considering finishing the cabinet I began last year! In addition I've found a new use for Philip's plane. Turns out the floors (which aren't really hardwood, but rather 12" wide pine planks), can't be sanded post installation. Ruins the look. Anyhow, and in spite of my greatest care, I've put in the occasional scuff mark, which I've then removed by hand planing the floors with a Marcou S20A! Works fabulously well, and with the mouth tight, and the blade as sharp as I can get it, I don't even worry about the grain direction.As for power tools, I'm getting better from my previous hand-tool obsession. Partly as a result of noting that it led me to feel very superior, but not very productive. I recently bought a 12" sliding compound miter saw for the floors, and fully intend to use it for everything else as well.Still no planer-thicknesser, though I'd get one if I had the funds. Same for a band saw. And a better workbench. I'll probably be getting those in reverse order from the one listed. But first I need to finish the floors, and a couple other promised pieces of furniture, before the ladywife will believe that woodworking is about working wood rather than acquiring toys.And you sir, how go things in blighty?All the best,
---Pedro
p.s. What happened to Mel's 5,000 post thread?
Pedro,
You are a brave chap to do that floor diagonal-like. But as I remember, you were ever setting quite ambitious goals. I wonder how that exceedingly interesting research and development of yours is going?
Congratulations (I think) on the prospect of a new snapper. I confess to preferring children after they get to age 2, when they turn from small gooey, wailing thangs into small human beings asking interesting questions. Also, that is when you can start buying the trainsets and other fine father-toys. :-)
Philip, I think, will be pleased that you're not treating that S20A like a piece of china and using it to dominate even the everyday carpentry jobs. What are tools for, after all, if not to do any job we demand of them? I know, I know - to gloat over, boast about, fondle and otherwise stroke the psyche with. But that to the side......
Perhaps Philip will lend you his proper old Dewalt radial arm saw, now you have got over your power tool inhibition? I could just imagine you getting addicted to Big Iron from 1927! There are some awesome old cast-iron machines from prewar days and I'm told that chaps do become enamoured of them. I like modern German ones meself, as they are blue and yellow.
***
I too have been neglecting the woodwork of late as there is guitar (and now also a piano) to larn; lots of arrows to shoot from a nice high-tech bow and 23 gazillion training miles to rie on a bicycle. It's my method for preventing death and thereby getting full benefit from the pension scheme; also, I am awaiting your special "keep ole gimmers alive" technology that you are developing. Lataxe the cyborg!
However, there is A List, which is growing apace so soon I must return to the shed.
***
Scrub planes. One with a powerful motor attached? In truth I have avoided them so have no advice to offer the OP and offer apologies for this bit of a thread tangent.
Lataxe
Sail in here and hijack MY thread will ye? This isn't Somalia sir, post piracy is to be condemned. May a thousand beetles eat all your figured hardwood...;-)
Jeff,
I have noted your curse of my precious things but so far the beetles are holding orf. We must avoid black magic in the shed as who knows what may happen. Possibly there will be animation of sharp tools which, employing new minds of their own, will turn on us.
It will be all your fault.
I hope you have found a scrubber you like; although me mammy said I should avoid scrubbers, especially old ones with too much makeup and a sinister cackle. She was always correct in her advice.
What is wrong, anyway, with a 20" planer-thicknesser for the wide planks? I am sure that the Germans will make one for only 53,789 euros, although it will also require its own elecricity substation and a small crane for installation purposes.
Lataxe, too tired from that bicycle to scrub off shavings with mere Lataxe-power.
Lataxe,
No sooner do I undertake to stop purchasing tools then I give the lie to my resolution. Case in point:
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&cat=1,42936,64321&p=64321
In the mail as of five minutes ago.I am a fraud.In other news, the research has been going splendidly. I've attached a recent paper to give you an idea. I need to update my website which is now woefully out of date, but things have been progressing splendidly on epilepsy, cardiology, and glaucoma fronts. Let me know if you have problems in any of the three areas and I'll do the surgery myself. Dave Jeske can make the scalpel and Philip the spreaders. I'll use an Eccentric Toolworks saw for any amputations that may be required. I played with one of these saws at a recent handtool event I went to in Indianapolis and LOVED it. Never seen anything cut that fast (by hand that is).I am impressed by your new musical undertakings. You'll be building guitars next. I like that you're going classical rather than modern. When you can play the Concierto de Aranjuez, let me know and I'll come visit.
All the best,
---Pedro
Pedro,
Thank you for that paper (I think). When I am brave enough to look at the pictures I will attempt to not just read but understand - well- a small percentage of it at least. :-) Meanwhile, all that talk of surgery has caused me to double the training miles on the bicycle as shurely this will cause the pumping organ to become immune to all frailties (I hope).
The geetar larnin' is indeed of the classical kind. I have a local tutor but also this excellent book, which I recommend to all who wish to acquire the art:
http://www.amazon.com/Solo-Guitar-Playing-Book-Classical/dp/0825694000/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1256991661&sr=1-1
Meanwhile the ladywife has bought a lektrik piano, which is a Phantastic Machine albeit something of a distraction from the plucking. However, not only will we eventually play duets, the larnin' of the pi-annee is also helping a lot with the reading of music. No guitar (or piano) building yet for me though. The list is long enough already!
LV also sent me their inducements to buy that mini plane and marker. (They must know what suckers we are for gleaming thangs - we are on their "gleaming-thang sucker mail list). It did strike me that Jeff might, in the true tradition of creating endless WW hard-labour, buy the pair and scrub with them. He will soon put a big camber on that 1/4 inch blade; and the marking thang will show him where to plane-down to.
He will pleased that the board-flattening will now take several aeons instead of one and require 34 gazillion joules of man-push rather than 1 gazillion. As we know, people only do scrub planing these days as a form of religious self-punishment, leading to Fundamental Revelations about timber that are denied to planer-thicknesser users. I don't know what is revealed myself as there is no scrubber in my shed.
Lataxe, a little plucker.
Lataxe,
I'll let you know my thoughts when the LV inducements arrive. At $40 I just couldn't say no. I don't imagine I'll use them for scrubbing, but I'm not sure what I'll use them for. Maybe I'll get a LN #1 and put it with the shoulder plane and marker in a toolbox for one of the little ones for Christmas.I confess I'm completely inept when it comes to making music. Played the violin for seven years and was, by all accounts, terrible. I wish I'd picked the piano, which is more forgiving for those of us who are moderately tone-deaf. You must make a recording of yourself and post it here for all to listen to.
---Pedro
I wasn't the fastest music learner, but I'd a thunk that learning piano and guitar at the same time would slow down the ability to read music. You can't use regular piano sheet music to play guitar, you have to transpose it. Mozart could do that in his head without thinking, but I always had to take the piano score on 2 staves and translate it onto the one stave for the guitar. Horrible job, but not as horrible as the sounds I produced if I didn't do it. Nice to see that old Noad is still going strong. I bought the 1973 edition, and it was the umpteenth reprint then. Hard to see how it could be improved.
Cheers, Jim
>recent paper TMTT Cardiac XMT<Sweet !rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Well, I must say that I suffered a mild dose of arrhymthia after reading that, but soon recovered as we do know that the plane mentioned is extremely versatile, rugged and good looking, just like the others from the same stable.
I will add the floor smoothing capability to the portfolio.I almost forgot to mention to Jeff: forget about scrubbers and invest in a portable power planer.....
Edited 10/31/2009 3:58 am by philip
Hi Philip,
Indeed, it would be even better if you made an alternate tote that could be swapped in and out for this application. About the length of a broom handle, so I could push it from the standing position.I know I've seen them in old drawings, but I can't seem to dig one up.Yours would be made of rhodesian teak, when unscrewed would double as a walking cane, and would contain a sword in the hilt.
---Pedro
Well, I have the excellent LV Scrub plane, which I like very much. It certainly wouldn't be hard to make a scrub plane, due to its loose tolerances, but I find that since scrubbing is usually done on the rough cut board, it's nice to have a plane that won't be damaged by any dirt or grit left in the fuzzy grain, or get beat up by bouncing along the rough surfaces.
In the past I think I wasted some time by scrubbing too much, and then having to much smoothing to do afterwards. Now I progress immediately to my home-made 18 inch jack plane after scrubbing, and then I just need a pass or two with a jointer.
Scrubbing by hand is fun and immensely satisfying, and why I only have a thickness planer, with no need for a jointer.
Jeff,
I took a flea-market #3, sharpened the blade with IIRC a 6" radius camber, and went to town. The mouth on this plane was already open enough. It's a "quick and dirty" little plane that gets used frequently. Have fun!!
-Jerry
Jeff,
I started a large thread a while back here:
http://forums.taunton.com/fw-knots/messages?msg=41337.1
I converted a #4 into a scrub by radiusing the blade, setting the frog back as far as it will go, and removing the chip breaker. It works great and cost me about $15.
and www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Hi Jeff
I really depends on the condition of the boards you want to flatten.
If you have severely twisted boards, then it may be best to cut them up first, and rejoin after some judicious flattening, otherwise you will lose a lot of thickness.
If you have thick stock that is mis-shapenep, then a scrub plane can be just the ticket. I like and use the LV as it is longer and heavier than all the rest. This benefits the harder woods.
On boards that are just needing moderate work (which is probably most boards), a jack plane with a moderately cambered blade is the go. For years I used a Stanley #5 1/2. Cheap and cheery. This is not work that demands the precision of jointing or smoothing. More recently I built a jack woodie, and I really like the balance of this plane. I'd recommend that you find a vintage version and clean it up.
View Image
Regards from Perth
Derek
Jeff;
Definitely make one. Using the Krenov method of plane making it is an easy four hour project, not counting glue drying time. Hock and Lie-Nielsen offer 1 1/2" wide with 3" radius replacement irons for scrubs. Another option is to make a 16" to 20" fore plane and put an 8" to 12" radius on the iron. Either way, you will end up with a better tool than any of the metal scrubs on the market. He are a couple of examples to get you going.
gdblake
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