Replies

1. 
   BOBABEUI | Jul 27, 2004 03:08pm | #1

   Greetings Dave,

   You do have your work cut out for you, building all the cabinets for your home, sounds like an interesting project but my better half would never allow it to happen, I mean what would we do with a cabinet-less house for 4 years anyway :-).

   I would take a look at Garrett Hack's 'The Handplane Book', I believe it would fit the bill for all the questions you need answered about scrapers.

   Best of luck

1. 
   dbidle | Jul 28, 2004 01:25pm | #5

   Thanks - I'll buy a copy today!

2. 
   dbidle | Aug 24, 2004 11:23pm | #13

   Well - I have read Garrett Hacks book.Great book, well written and very informative. I practiced all of his recommendations on my Stanley bench planes with great success. The article by David Charlesworth in the most recent Finehomebuilding also included some nice additional tips.

   Anyway....I have been searching on the net and have come the conclusion that I would probably like to have a smoothing plane. The difficulty is deciding which one. I have found two (there are probably more) kit companies. Shepard makes the dovetailed infill plane without the adjuster. The St. James Bay Tool Co makes cast bronze infill smoothing planes that are alot easier to put together, heavier, include an adjuster, and are cheaper. I can't afford the one of the high end $2600 imitation Norris smoothing planes but could get one of the kits. There are also the Lie Nielson smoothing planes and the Veritas smoothing planes...etc.

   It goes on and on.

   Scrapers are less of an issue, I think I will simply start out with a set of rectangular blades of different thickenesses and start experimenting.

   I expect to be working in cherry and American Beech woods over the next couple of years. For the most part they will not be highly figured woods. Beyond that - who knows. The best value seems to the St. James Bay kits. But can I expect a high quality plane if I build it myself with no previous experience.

   How do I go about deciding what to get?

   Thanks,

   David

1. 
   Clay | Aug 25, 2004 10:43am | #14

   Dave;

   Before you make any big investments in new planes try dampening the surface of the wood that you are planing with a moist rag or sponge.  This will dramatically decrease tearout.  The technique is also useful when powerplaning.

1. 
   dbidle | Aug 25, 2004 02:09pm | #15

   Thanks - I'll give it a try.

2. 
   BOBABEUI | Aug 25, 2004 03:33pm | #16

   Hey Dave,

   Glad Garrett Hack's book worked out for you, it has helped me more than enough to justify the cost of the book.

   I am no expert on handplanes by any stretch, for what it's worth, I have great success with Lie-Nielsen planes. I purchased a 4.5 plane with a York frog for use as a smoothing plane.

   There are many other brands that would do the job as well as a L-N such as; Knight, Clifton, Vertias, ECE, Stanley Bedrock, Clark and Williams to name a few.

   Best of luck.

   Edited 8/25/2004 11:50 am ET by BOBABEUI

2. 
   BG | Jul 27, 2004 04:35pm | #2

   Dave,

   I think most of the pros on here put their completed floating panel style cabinet doors through a wide belt sander before finishing...saves a lot of greef on getting the joints looking clean.  You may have a local shop that could accomodate your needs.
3. 
   Alan | Jul 28, 2004 02:14am | #3

   David,

   IIRC, both the Tools For Working Wood web site and Lee Valley's site have a blurb on tuning and using scrapers.  If not, go over to Wood Central and check the archives; you'll find it there for sure.

   But I'd like to hear more about you getting tear out when you're using your plane.  It does happen, of course--and softwoods seem to be especially susceptible to tear out.  But with a sharp iron and a properly tuned plane, you shouldn't have trouble with tear out.  IMHO a plane leaves a nicer finish than does a scraper; and a plane is faster and easier than a scraper. 

   As above, maybe you should re-visit the idea of using your plane.

   Alan

1. 
   dbidle | Jul 28, 2004 01:23pm | #4

   Alan,

   I like the idea of using a plane. I have done a lot of joining with the plane quite successfully. However, at times there is a small amout of tearout. which I usually don't mind in the middle of a joined surface. But on a flat exposed surface I would like all the tear out removed. I have always done this with sanding. But I am curious to know if scraping (or as you suggest maybe planing) are reasonable alternatives to sanding.

   I will look up the articles that you suggested so I can learn what it is I may be doing wrong.

   Thanks,

   David

1. 
   Alan | Jul 29, 2004 12:15am | #6

   Dave,

   I misunderstood what you said about the tear out you were getting.  I got the notion that you were consistently getting tear out all over your stock.  Now I see that's not what you meant.

   With that in mind--that you're only occasionally getting little patches of tear out--a scraper is what I would use if I couldn't eliminate the tear out with a plane.  Still, I would persist with a plane, trying the usual tricks, until it left me no option other than scraping.

   Alan

4. 
   SEBDESN | Jul 29, 2004 04:45am | #7

   Well, I guess I will lay myself open...

   If you are going to build a house full of cabinets using hand tools, you best have your divorce attorney on retainer. If you dont have a goodly amount of powered equipment you will need him/her... 

   Just my opinion... 

1. 
   dbidle | Jul 29, 2004 01:04pm | #8

   I have not made myself clear - I have plenty of power equipment that includes among other things a 15 in planer and an 8 in jointer. But I am also a perfectionist and want the final product to look nice. I like working with hand tools, but realize that I don't have an unlimited amount of time to complete the project, so I am exploring alteratives to long hours of sanding with a belt sander. Also, I don't plan to finish all the cabinets in the house before we move in. I realize that this will gone on for a number of years. My wife, by the way, has considerably more patience that I!

   David

1. 
   DougF | Jul 29, 2004 04:36pm | #9

   Dave,

   Four years ago we completely renovated a house and I built all of the bathroom, kitchen, pantry and built-in buffet and china cabinets from white maple.  All of the upper doors were built to hold art glass.  All of the drawers were dovetailed.  I hired an unemployed cabinet maker to work with me about 15 hours a week.   This project took about 4 months of every night and long weekends. 

   This was the fifth kitchen I have built so I had few illusions about the effort it would take.  And, it was worth it.  Stay at it and good luck!

   Doug

   PS: There was point in the project where I would have traded my soul for a wide belt sander: locally, (it was a very small town) none were available. 

2. 
   AlanTurner | Jul 29, 2004 05:51pm | #10

   If the tearout from a plane is only light (not deep), then in my experience a scraper, prperly tuned, will take care of it quickly, much quicker than with abrasives. As to tuning, I built (cut) a piece of ash, with a slot for my flat file, and rebated it. The file fits snugly in the slot, and with the rebate, the scraper rides on the rebate (1.5" high) and thus keeps the edge a perfect 90, with no rocking. Only takes a couple of minutes. After filing, I flip the jig,, all 90's on the jig, and use it on top of a diamond stone to hone the edge. Then back bend, and bend, with a burnisher. My vise is toed in at the top, so I can use that to hold the scraper vertical for the final hook. I get 3 to 6 burnishings per filing, depending upon the wood.

   I am just finishing a pair of shaker style tables, tapered legs, and tried to plane them, but the Bolivian Rosewood is too tough on tearout for my Bedrock, and I didn't feel like tuning up my Gordon, so just went to the scraper, and they are now done. Very quick. Nice shavings from the scraper. They actually looked like those from a finely set plane.

   Alan

   http://www.alanturnerfurnituremaker.com

1. 
   Patto | Jul 30, 2004 03:13am | #11

   I have just been using the veritas scraper to finish some very difficult and brittle pieces of Casurina (fortunately small pieces for a box). started with a finely tuned 4-1/2 Stanley so nothing fancy in my shop.

   I have used hand scrapers as you describe for years and regard them as pretty much essential - but this tool is an absolute treat. (my first from veritas and has set me to looking more seriously at their block planes) 

5. 
   pritcharded | Jul 30, 2004 04:14am | #12

   Dave,

   Seeing as you have a big project in front of you, if you want to use a scraper I suggest you have a close look at the Veritas range of scraper accessories.

   They make three excellent aids to using a simple card scraper:

   • a file jig
   • a carbide tipped jig to generate a consistent burr
   • a holder to give the scraper the right shape (and to relieve the stress on the fingers!)

   I have all three and can attest to the fact that for amateurs like me, they make scraping the finishing method of choice. These days I even use a scraper to level lacquer between coats (it's very quick and effective).

   Just follow the instructions that come on the Veritas packaging and you will get a first rate result every time.

   My steps to a perfect preparation are:

   • machine the stock with sharp planner/thicknesser knives
   • remove the machine marks with a very sharp handplane (set to take a very thin shaving) -  frequently give the sole a wipe with an oily rag
   • remove the handplane marks with a hand scraper as above
   • start applying the finish coats

   If the wood I'm planing has a tendency to tear, I use a handplane with a 60 degree bedding angle vis-a- vis the usual 45 degree.

   Cheers, Ted