Replies

1. 
   hammer1 | Mar 04, 2009 05:48pm | #1

   I've owned a lot of different scrapers. I don't really know what the differences are in the steel. Some sharpen up easily and hold the curl fairly well while others don't. The thickness and size of the scraper makes a difference in the feel and in the ability to bend and control it. I think the Sandvik/Bahco .030 is one of the best card scrapers available.

   Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

1. 
   cwalvoord | Mar 04, 2009 09:17pm | #2

   hammer1,
   I have a Sandvick/Bahco 0.030 scraper and I have never had much success with it. I have tried several methods of preparing the edge and only occasionally get curls as opposed to dust. I have not given up on it - in fact I used it last night to smooth some inlaid banding on a circular table apron, but about half the material I removed was dust as opposed to shavings. Any tips on this paticular scraper?
   Thanks
   Chris

1. 
   hammer1 | Mar 05, 2009 06:47am | #7

   I could show you how I sharpen a card scraper in a couple of minutes but explaining it in words is more difficult. I don't think there is necessarily a right or wrong way, it's all about the cut. If you are getting a great cut, that's really what matters. My method isn't the conventional way you read about in the magazines and books. They didn't exist back when I started learning. I have used any method I have become aware of but this is what works best for me.First I lay the scraper flat, usually, on the table saw. I keep it back from the edge of the top about 3/16". I then do what I call burnishing. I run my burnisher back and forth on the edge of the scraper. This flattens out and smooths the edge. You can actually see that it becomes bright and polished. The next step is to put the scraper in a vise and draw file the edge. I call draw filing the method where you hold the file perpendicular to the edge and push it down the length of the scraper. One or two passes is enough. You will see the swarf come off in a little spring like curl. Just light pressure and a nice even stroke. I have a hand saw jointer but I like the edge I get draw filing better. The jointer is handy for straightening the edge out every few years or so. I don't use a stone, can't seem to get the same sharpness with them.I take the scraper out of the vise and put it back on the table saw and repeat the burnishing, flat on the scraper. After this you should be able to feel a very sharp edge on the scraper, Don't run you thumb down it unless you want to bleed. It will be razor sharp. If you don't feel a real sharp and pronounced edge, you haven't got it right. This is the edge you curl over and it does the cutting.Next I move the scraper, still flat, so it overhangs the table saw top. I make one or two slow, deliberate strokes, almost holding the burnisher straight up. I then take two, three or four strokes with the burnisher tipping, maybe 15-20 degrees. I'm trying to slowly bend over the sharp edge without dulling it. I can feel it. More strokes and added pressure will turn a heavier curl.When I burnish on the flat, I work up to firm pressure. The burnisher works similar to the way a butcher's steel reshapes and smooths out a knife edge. Since I keep the scraper back a little, I almost bend that edge over. I took a couple of pictures today but I can't do macro with my camera and the edge that you can see in person, doesn't show.Card scrapers don't work well on softwoods. They are best with open grain hardwoods. The angle you hold the scraper to the work can make a difference in how well it cuts and how long the edge holds. Generally, I hold the scraper about the same angle as I hold the burnisher when turning the edge. When I use the burnisher, I rub it in my hair to get a whisper of oil on it. The side of your nose is also a good source of just the right lubricant. One pic shows my old Kunz that used to be 3" wide. It's not the first scraper I've worn down to a stub. Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

   
1. 
   Eef | Mar 31, 2009 06:03pm | #23

   hammer,

   really good explaination and a very pleasant read.

   thank you,

   eef

2. 
   derekcohen | Mar 05, 2009 09:34am | #8

   I have a Sandvick/Bahco 0.030 scraper and I have never had much success with it.

   Chris

   This sounds like you need to sharpen the edge properly. I have used a variety of steels, and they are no that different in use. Bellow is a copy of an article I wrote.

   Preparing a Cabinet Scraper

   The cabinet (or card) scraper is one of the most basic and versatile of tools. It is capable of removing paint or glue, shaping fine detail, and finishing a surface where the best planes fail.

   I consider the use of the term “scraper” to be a little misleading. The burr on the edge of the steel acts like a plane blade in creating shavings. Its cutting angle, however, is higher than any plane.

   Cabinet scrapers are typically about 6” x 2” rectangles of steel. The steel is also typically about the same thickness and hardness as a saw blade, which is one of the reasons why old saws are often cut up to become cabinet scrapers.

   New cabinet scrapers may be purchased from Sandvic, Lie Nielson, Lee Valley, and Crown, amongst others.

   This article provides a pictorial in preparing the cabinet scraper for use as a finishing tool. Note that it is based on the images from an earlier essay on this subject. I have updated this with additional data and references. The images depict one edge being prepared. Generally I prepare all four sides at the same time. And I also prepare both sides of the edge, thus giving 8 sides ready for use.

   From beginning to end, an edge should take about 3-5 minutes. This is reduced to about 30 seconds if all one is doing is renewing a recent burr. The full treatment (which is depicted here) is only necessary when you no longer obtain shavings but, instead, are creating dust. Dust is the sign that the burr is no longer cutting. Generally after I can re-burr an edge about 3 times before jointing it afresh. I work a lot with woods like Jarrah, which is hard and abrasive, and quickly dulls an edge.

   Essential Tools

   The burnisher. This is a flat and smooth length of hard steel that is used to create the burr. Please do not be tempted to use the back of a chisel or a screwdriver, or the tyre iron … they are simply not smooth or hard enough to create the type of burr that will produce shavings that rival those of a plane. Remember, the surface of the burnisher you use will transfer to the edge of the scraper steel. Buy a dedicated burnisher. They are cheap enough.

   I purchased one made by Crown – not as good but it does a fine job (the LV has three diameters for different edges, while the Crown has just one size).

   Later I made one of my own from a length of carbide rod given to me by a fellow Galoot. This has a delicate and light feel – which demonstrates that the pressure with which one uses a burnisher to extract an edge does not have to be heavy. Light is good.

   Here it is below the Crown burnisher..

   View Image

   The Scraper Holder

   The holder in the presentation below is one I made from a section of angle iron (this is actually a blade holder used on the Belt Sander Grinder). What one wants is a guide that will hold the file square to the blade when it is used to joint the steel’s edge. This is done to flatten and straighten the card scraper’s edge in preparation for smoothing, which occurs before turning the burr.

   Since these pictures were taken, I have purchased the Lee Valley jointer holder as it has other uses (it may be used to joint at 45° as well as 90°, and it may also be use to joint a handsaw).

   The Veritas jointer:

   View Image

   Sharpening Media

   I use a bastard file to joint the edge, and a 1200 grit diamond stone to smooth the now flat but rough edge. The edges and sides of the scraper are smoothed on 1000/5000/8000 Shaptons.

   Preparing the Cabinet Scraper

   Step 1 - Joint edge of the scraper.

   With the file clamped in the guide, flatten and square the edge.

   View Image

   It is always a good idea to use a blue permanent marker to determine where the steel has been filed.

   Step 2 – Smooth the edge using the diamond stone

   Repeat the previous step, this time using the diamond stone to remove the file marks.

   View Image

   View Image

   Step 3 – Smooth the faces

   After the edge has been flattened and smoothed, the faces must be flattened and smoothed. I will use W&D sandpaper on glass to flatten ½” around the border of the scraper.The card is now taken to the waterstones. The edges and sides of the scraper are smoothed up to the equivalent of a 8000 waterstone. It is just as viable in these final stages to use sandpaper (up to 2500 grit) or diamond paste (I would go 40, 10, 1 microns). What you use to build up a smooth surface is not important. What is important is that these are square and smooth.

   In a recent article in Popular Woodworking, Christopher Schwarz suggested using the Ruler Trick (of David Charlesworth) when the steel is not flat enough to smooth easily. This makes sense to me, but my first preference would be to flatten the steel, per se. Do it properly once, and then you do not need to do it again.Step 4 - Draw the edge

   Drawing the edge facilitates the burr.

   The burnisher is held about 5 degrees to the face and 3-5 light strokes are made. Lubricate the metal surface with a drop of oil. The metal moves more than one imagines it will from the light pressure. Experiment with less first rather than more.

   Note that the larger the edge drawn, the larger will be the burr (which will create a thicker, coarser shaving), but also that the resulting burr will be more fragile and easier to fracture.View Image

   Step 5 - Turn the burrThe burnisher is held at about 10 degrees to the edge and again 3-5 light strokes are made. Feel the resulting burr with a fingertip. It should be sharp.View Image

   Finally - The proof of the pudding and all that …Shavings in hard, interlinked and short-grained Jarrah.View Image

   Notes about the scraper in use

   The cabinet scraper may be both pushed or pulled.

   When it is pushed, the double-handed grip places the thumbs at the center of the blade, which causes it to be bowed. The advantage of this is that the blade forms a camber and prevents the ends digging in (in the same way as a cambered plane blade works). The greater the thumb pressure, the greater the bow. This is transferred to the wood surface. While this may be helpful for removing isolated sections of tearout, it will leave a scalloped surface if overdone.

   For this reason, when smoothing a flat surface, my preference is to pull the scraper towards myself. This action tends to keep the blade fairly straight. It is also the reason why I like to prepare the short sides of the blade. These are stiffer and, consequently, resist bowing. I find these sides ideal when scraping narrow edges.

   View Image

   Regards from PerthDerek Cohen

   Edited 3/5/2009 1:37 am ET by derekcohen

1. 
   cwalvoord | Mar 05, 2009 06:05pm | #10

   Thanks both Derek and hammer1. I will keep working on my process and technique for joining the edge and turning the burr. As someone mentioned, just the square edge is great for fixing the occasional (inevitable) finish sag or drip and when I do get a good burr it is a wonderful tool for leveling inlay or fixing that one small spot of tear out.
   Chris

2. 
   kevinwilliams | Apr 29, 2009 08:06pm | #26

   Hi DerekThanks, this is a most useful post!Kind regards,Kevin

2. 
   Jimurock | Mar 05, 2009 02:57am | #3

   My first scraper was a cheap 2 Cherries, and it worked quite well once I finally learned how to put a burr on it.  I still have it, but it's been superseded by the Lee Valley set of 4 different thicknesses.  The thickest one gets used without a burr for scraping glue off the bench, etc., the 2 medium ones burred for furniture scraping, and the thinnest without a burr for finicky stuff like levelling inlays.  The burrless one can also be used flat to take small imperfections off a dried finish coat.  I think sharpening technique and how you use the tool is probably more important than brand.

   Jim

1. 
   flairwoodworks | Mar 06, 2009 07:25am | #13

   Jim,I always understood that scrapers without a burr could be used flat, but recently read in an article that the author uses a scraper with a hook flat. Have you ever heard of this?Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com(soon to be http://www.flairwoodworks.com)

    - Success is not the key to happiness.  Happiness is the key to success.  If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer

1. 
   Jimurock | Mar 06, 2009 05:02pm | #14

   No, I haven't, though I'm hardly an expert.  Without the hook it travels smoothly over e.g. a shellac surface removing the nibs without affecting the finish.  Without having tried it, it sounds as though the hook would make it more difficult to move across the surface, and might cause damage?  I'll need to give it a try.  I do use an upright scraper to deal with runs, but don't need a hook for that.

   Cheers, Jim

1. 
   philip | Mar 07, 2009 07:27am | #16

   Jim and Chris,
   You can use a scraper with no burr, provided the arris is sharp and smooth. The result is , well, a scraping compared to the shaving you get from a burr. More of a crumbly result.
   But the no burr option is wonderful for levelling lacquer etc, provided it is smooth i.e no file or stoning marks otherwise these appear on the finish....You don't have to use it flat either as far as I know- I just use it as normal but no flexing and gently gently.Saves messing with sandpaper which still loads up stearated or not.Philip Marcou

1. 
   GDH2 | Mar 07, 2009 07:42am | #17

   A very provocative thread for me - I am quite stunned to read so many suggesting to use a scraper on a freshly finished surface! I assume you are discussing surfaces like table tops? I will try and work out a situation where I can test it without risking several hours of work. But I admit I don't have much knowledge about the final step of finishing and will ask for some clarifications in the finishing forum.Doug
   The Wood Loon
   Acton, MA

2. 
   philip | Mar 07, 2009 08:06am | #18

   Doug,
   You do need to be careful, alright, but it can save a lot of time when you are wanting to build a level filling lacquer- spray it on good and thick and level it with scraper instead of spraying and sanding many times between thin coats. Heretical speech but if one needs to be in a hurry one needs to be in a hurry.... I am talking flat surfaces such a stable tops.Philip Marcou

3. 
   WillGeorge | Mar 31, 2009 03:30am | #21

   You can use a scraper with no burr.. YES.. I do often!

3. 
   danmart | Mar 05, 2009 03:15am | #4

   Like the others have mentioned, there is a little difference in the steel you find on the market. I tend to use my thinner scrapers as I can bow them a little when I use them in my hands. Sharpening the scraper takes a little practice and experimenting to find the method that suits your needs.

   For finish work, I tend to use the steps that Brian Boggs demonstrated on a video here on FWW. I like working the edge with the diamond stone - it seems to get me to the point of rolling the burr fairly quickly.

   I might add that I keep a scraper in my back pocket just about every minute I'm in the shop. This is my workhorse for rough work.

   Here goes: I keep the edge with the mill file. No stone work. Just flatten edge with a couple swipes of the file and roll. Its a little ragged but it cuts aggressively and I'm working wood not the diamond stone. For finish surface work, I grab the nice ones. These are dressed on the edge and the face of the scraper.

   Try some different pieces of steel. You'll find something that works for you. The scraper is a great tool and worth the time it takes to master it. For me, it was a little like learning how to master a skew chisel on the lathe. Frustrating in the beginning but once you get the"feel" you really love working with the tool.

   dan

4. 
   Napie | Mar 05, 2009 05:01am | #5

   I cut up old hand saw blades.  $2.00 at a yard sale for an old Craftsman and I have enough scrapers in any shape I want for years. Just the right hardness and flex.

1. 
   roc | Mar 05, 2009 05:46am | #6

   >cut up old hand saw bladesThat's the way t go. Most all the store boughts are all distorted from being punched out. Very frustrating. Can work around it or sharpen one side but why is it so tough to just do it right and charge twice as much ?I have many different brands and found the Lie-Nielsens to be very good; meaning flat enough and can form a good hook without much preparation.
   rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )

2. 
   boilerbay | Mar 05, 2009 06:29pm | #11

   Napie,How do you cut up your saws? I've done it a few times for specific edge molding profiles but it was a real pain. Shears warp and ripple the edges like the commercial punch outs and hand(hack) sawing takes forever. I've thought about running them on a band saw. Lot of clean up time.Lot of oil mess. Lots of bastard time flattening the cut edge.
   So how do you do them?Boiler

1. 
   Napie | Mar 06, 2009 04:28am | #12

   It's pretty simple, a Dremel tool with the little cut off wheels, fast, smooth, easy. 

1. 
   boilerbay | Mar 06, 2009 05:42pm | #15

   Super. I'll give those little devils a spin.
   Thanks
   Boiler

5. 
   philip | Mar 05, 2009 11:07am | #9

   Ah well there you go , then, Greg,
   Ther sure is a difference between some brands, and there certainly is a difference in the type of steel favoured by the assembled woodworms out there.
   To cut a long story short: I can't see the point of going through the rigmarole of turning a burr on a scraper blade that is soft ie. one that is made from saw blades etc. Better to have something on the hard side so that the poncing about with old screwdrivers etc is eliminated-unless ofcourse one is genetically programmed for this.One would need a ticketer, but these come in various forms and are free if one looks, or fun to make up if one is so inclined. (;)(;)

   Philip Marcou
6. 
   YesMaam27577 | Mar 07, 2009 07:06pm | #19

   The first scraper I ever bought was a cheapie, from a woodworking show vendor. It caused me so many headaches that I gave up on using scrapers altogether.

   Years later, some posts here, combined with some magazine articles, got me to try again. I bought the Lee-Nielson scrapers, and a new burnisher.

   Yes, the difference is amazing.

   Best I can tell, the cheapie and the L-N use different grades of steel, and different hardnesses. It was virtually impossible to get a good hook on the cheap scraper. Not so with the good one.

   And here's the kicker -- The good ones aren't significantly more expensive. Literally just a few dollars different.

   Go for the good ones. You won't be sorry.

   Politics is the antithesis of problem solving.
7. 
   mike4244 | Mar 31, 2009 03:06am | #20

   My favorite scrapers are a set of three from now defunct American Machine and Tool.These are the bottom of the line scrapers that probably cost me about $5.00 for the three total.I drove about 80 miles or so to pickup my 6" jointer that my kids bought me for Christmas in late 70's. I wound up buying the scrapers and a few other tools that I still use.

   I also have a Sandvik and another name brand I do not recall. I saved an old kinked handsaw that I found in the trash. Someday I'll cut it down for a few more scrapers.

   The inexpensive scrapers I have are thin.They file,stone and burnish with ease and still hold the burr as long as the Sandvik.These are the ones I also reach for first.

   mike

8. 
   SARGEgrinder47 | Mar 31, 2009 05:48pm | #22

   My first hand scraper was a Sandvik purchased around 1974. I continued to use Sandviks until they were bought by Bahco. I was tipped off by Highland Hardware here in Atlanta that Sandvik was going to be purchased by Bahco so.. I purchased 10 of the original Sandviks to give me a total of 13 before anyone ever heard the name Bahco.

   I cannot comment on other scrapers as I have not used them. I tend to "dance" with the one that brung me. With that said.. I do use the back side of an Anant plane iron I replaced with a Hock iron almost daily. Works well as a scraper and it the best method I have found to take excess glue from a glue line off quickly.

   Sarge..

1. 
   hammer1 | Apr 01, 2009 05:58pm | #24

   I don't remember when or where I found it, but this Starrett scraper is the bomb for removing glue. One side is convex the other is straight. Keep you eyes open at places that sell old tools.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

   
1. 
   SARGEgrinder47 | Apr 01, 2009 09:30pm | #25

   You have the basicallly the idenical thing with a plane iron, Hammer. One side is straight.. the other with the angle can be layed flat on a surface and the outer edge will slice through glue if there is any ridge. I have not nor was I aware that Starrett made a scraper.

   Regards...

   Sarge..