An apparently simple question… what is the best design for a sawhorse?
I am looking for a solid, sturdy design that is also easy to stack or breakdown and to store.
I have several different types, and I am not all that satisfied with them. The gusseted ones are sturdy, but not easy to stack/store (at least the design I have). The bracket ones tend to be wobbly.
If you have a favorite design, or know of a good source for plans/hardware, I’d appreciate your input…
Thanks,
Glaucon
If you don’t think too good, then don’t think too much…
Replies
Glaucon,
There was a good sawhorse design in a fairly recent FWW. It was stackable and had special holding doodats to slot on the top, as I remember. I'm sure you'll find it in the magazine index from the main FWW page (there are 30 entries for sawhorse).
Lataxe.
Glaucon,
Here is a design I settled on because the horses are sturdy and easy to move, plus they nest together and sit at the end of my bench when not in use. The pair in the photos are 18" high and 30" long. I have another pair that are 25" tall and 36" long. I can also put some 2x4 across the lower stretcher to make a secondary shelf for parts and things if I need to. It is a pretty simple design and easy to make.
J.P.
here are the photos.http://www.jpkfinefurniture.com
http://www.woodworkinghowto.com/wh301p.htm
http://www-tc.pbs.org/wws/howto/images/e2101sawhorse.pdf?mii=1
http://www.popularmechanics.com/home_improvement/workshop/1274546.html
Regards
Thanks to all. I will pull the Pop WWing to look at its design, but I have to say that I like the Woodrigth design best for my purposes. Also has hand cut open mortises (more like a compound bridle joint) which looks like fun.Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
THEM IS COOL!
JP,
Where does the fine furniture end, and the sawhorse begin?
Nice work (above and below)...Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
I only made the sawhorses. The table is a 19th century English sofa table in for a clean and polish. The horses are ash with wax. I like them because they are really sturdy and easy to slide and move about. It is also a good reason to practice some mortising and halved joinery. If you are interested I could make up a quick sketch with some dimensions.J.P.http://www.jpkfinefurniture.com
Actually, if its not too much trouble a sketch/measurements would be appreciated...
Thanks,Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
JP
I liked your sawhorses.
If you could post your sketchs I would appreciate.
Regards
Sorry for the delay. I had some things that needed to get done this week. Anyway here is a rough sketch. If you want I can post some photos of the top and side in order to give a visual of the joinery.J.P.http://www.jpkfinefurniture.com
Tho it might not be exactly what you are looking for, my latest article on the subject might be worth your read. See Popular Woodworking April issue (#154). As i recall, I discussed human factors issues, sizes, and usage that might be helpful even if you choose modern construction. Also note homemade rip saw!
Adam
My favorite design is a 2x4 attached to an aluminum folding sawhorse. The aluminum is light-weight and folds into itself. I make the 2x4 ~3" longer than the top, drill a hole through it and hang them on the wall. But they'll stack also if you want.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Perhaps less than you're aiming for. Many carps would still remember the adage that for sawhorses you only need to know 2 numbers. 15 and 30. 15 degrees is the angle for everything and 30 is the length of the top and legs. But we're talking 2x4's and framing nails here as well. (And honestly I'm too tall for 30 to be comfy. I make 'em 36)
"A bore is a man who, when you ask him how he is, tells you." -Bert Taylor
Something like in the attached sketch, RW? It should take maybe an hour to make starting with rough sawn pine or similar. It can be seen that the footprint fits into a wireframe rectangular box. The end of the beam shouldn't fall outside the wireframe for sake of stability-- lot's of us stand on sawhorses to reach up and do jobs, so a beam that overhangs the footprint of the rectangle is a source of instability.
A stronger variation is drawn at the bottom right where the beam is housed on both edges, and the top of each leg is notched to go into the beam's housing. It's a compound cut, therefore a bit more difficult than a straightforward housing, but it does give added strength.
A plywood gusset can also be cut to go between the legs and under the beam for extra oomph, but stackability is compromised, and the gusset isn't a great fit on the end facing edges of the legs. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Yes. I tend to actually use the things fairly hard, and remake a set periodically. 2x4 legs, 2x6 top. I bevel the edges on the top. I think your gusset is a mandatory item to keep the legs from spreading under weight. I put a scrap of ply on the outside (hey, and they still stack) and a 2x2 on the inside of the leg under the top. That piece tends to get in the way of stacking, but I dont usually own more than 4 at a time, not a big deal. But they aren't pretty, just efficient. I saw them, kick them, put them in mud, spray paint on them . . . I've given some away to people who really need it. My carpet installer was trying to hold 1/4" underlayment sheets in one hand and make cut outs with a jigsaw in the other. He got the last pair of give aways."A bore is a man who, when you ask him how he is, tells you." -Bert Taylor
I prefer is a horse with a broad top that can easily support a 1x10 that's two feet long say. I think its also preferable to have the sides flat- i.e. no legs protruding, at least at the top. A lower H-stretcher can be nice, but the wide plywood skirts can get in the way, again, when sawing short stock.
Beyond that, I think this is an interesting opportunity to examine how purism, usually regarded derogatorily in discussions like this, is really critical. Working strictly with hand tools, the saw horses shown in this thread thus far simply wouldn't work for me. For me, saw horses are all about sawing, not about standing on or raising up furniture. I would call these things "work stands". Their design is driven by very different factors. So when you talk about "saw horses" my question might be; Are we really talking about saw horses? If so, I don't see how the horses presented thus far can work for ripping short stock. If you aren't using your saw horses for sawing, I suggest we do two things:
1) Call them something else like work stands to distinguish them from real saw horses
2) Develop designs around their true functionality which would naturally not include sawing. In that case it might be best to make tall or very low stands, possibly folding stands, or stands with wheels.
Adam
P.S. This same issue often arises vis a vis workbenches. Some people need workbenches to hand plane their stock. Others, perhaps most, use their benches as assembly tables or a place to use a palm sander. This community is under-served by traditional workbenches. They should have their own design optimized for their real needs. That design deserves equal glorification.
Thirty odd years ago Adam when I started making a living in this woodwhacking game we used sawhorses just as I sketched for ripping and cross-cutting stock by hand. Back then a cordless screwdriver was called a Yankee, a cordless drill was called a brace and bit or a wheelie, and a cordless saw was called a rip or panel saw. I still have my Yankee drivers, the brace and bits along with the wheelie, and all my rip and panel saws. I even still use them on odd occasions, antediluvian things as they now are.
Set up two horses, put the stock over them and rip and cross-cut away. Move the stock along the horses as you rip. Jings, if the stock was big like an 8' X 4' panel we'd use three or four horses to support the stuff along with a dead man or two to provide the extra pair of hands.
A little piece such as your 1" X 10" can be cut easily enough by clamping one end to the horse and ripping as far as you can towards the horse. Turn the piece around, clamp again and rip away from the horse. Not ideal I agree, but perfectly do-able.
I don't know that the term saw horse is inappropriate for that design as it's a style that's been used for that operation for many decades along with a whole host of other useful functions, such as standing on to nail a bit of cornice work around a cabinet, stands for laying a bit of ply on to create an impromptu glue up table, or varnishing table. It's a simple rest with a multitude of functions, and I guess I'll continue to call them sawhorses for the rest of my working life, ha, ha. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
What you are describing, a fairly low, bench style support for hand sawing boards, was called a sawing stool in colonial times. I think the term "saw horse" and the style of modern saw horses is a more recent development.
John White, Shop Manager, Fine Woodworking Magazine
You may be right about the terminology, though I've never come across it. I guess I'm less interested in the exact term and more interested in drawing the distinction between those 2x4 thingys, and those other things with the wide tops shown in the only two paintings of early 19th century shops I know of- one was published in Landis "the Workbench Book" on page 4. The other in "Tools: Working wood in Eighteenth Century America", the latter text actually has both. ( I really recommend Gaynor's "Tools:...")Again, I guess my interest is less in forcing someone like Richard to begin calling an item by a different name, than it is to recognize that there IS a difference- the name being only a convenient way of recognizing the physical difference. So let's say it clearly- when men sawed all their stock by hand, it appears they used saw horses with broad backs and little substructure. The things we call saw horses, don't work all that well for actual sawing. So if you want to saw by hand, its helpful to recognize the difference between what people call saw horses today (workbenches happen to be another example of the same phenomenon) and what was actually used by "fine woodworkers" of the past.Does that make sense? This is sort of emblematic and philosophical to me and I'm not sure I'm expressing myself clearly.Adam.
P.S. This has been my experience using hand tools. Conventional wisdom has let me down time and time again. Like maybe the reason Tage Frid didn't see a need to sharpen a hand saw x-cut was because he used a radial arm saw for x-cutting.
Sawhorses have a widely accepted definiton and usage (present company excepted).
Deflecting a WW thread into an exigesis on nomenclature is tedious and pedantic (bombast intended).Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
"Deflecting a WW thread into an exigesis on nomenclature is tedious and pedantic (bombast intended)."
Criticism accepted. I'm trying to help, not bore.
I guess what I'm trying to say is there is no one generic saw horse, just like there's no one generic workbench. I'm suspecting when you asked the question, you were unaware that any distinction between saw horses for sawing and saw horses not used for sawing) existed.
I didn't want you to feel I was criticizing you for not knowing this level of minutia so I tried to relate this discussion to the hundreds of other similar discussions like: "what's the best hand plane?" or "what blade should I buy for my bandsaw?"
Like your question, all of these questions reveal that the asker needs an education in the many things that can be done with the tool. The sooner he sees the lines between the functions the better. I hope I helped you sort out the many different designs offered into the two basic functions of this tool (for sawing, and not for sawing). I'm hoping this will inevitably help you choose a design that's right for you.
Adam
I have to agree with you Glaucon apart from spelling it thus....exegesis:>)
Cicero,
My apologies... it was late (and apparently ineffective),
Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
My apologies... it was late (and apparently ineffective),That's kinda funny and also kinda rude. Remember that there are real people on the other ends of these keyboards who care enough about you and your questions to take the time to answer. You certainly don't have to agree with me. Maybe my answers weren't helpful. But to insult someone who was trying to help you probably isn't something you would do if we were face to face. So even if you are half way around the world like Cicero and I are, KNOTS is a better place if you pretend I'm right next to you.Adam
P.S. I hope you like my article on saw horses (APRIL PW). I hope when you read it, I can become a real person for you. Those woods are my backyard. I really did cut my thumb. And that really was my Grandfather's ship adze. My children play in those shavings next to my bench, and my sweet wife took those pictures. I made the saw horses, the saw, and the Wm&Mary chest on chest behind them and I'm equally proud of all three!Edited 3/16/2006 9:36 pm ET by AdamCherubini
Edited 3/16/2006 9:40 pm ET by AdamCherubini
"That's kinda funny and also kinda rude."<!----><!----><!---->
Actually, I find most of your contributions to this thread to be patronizing and, for the most part, beside the point. Here is the way that I started:<!----><!---->
An apparently simple question... what is the best design for a sawhorse?<!----><!----><!----><!----><!---->
I am looking for a solid, sturdy design that is also easy to stack or breakdown and to store.<!----><!---->
Here is a compendium of your replies from several posts:<!----><!---->
...I'm suspecting when you asked the question, you were unaware that any distinction between saw horses for sawing and saw horses not used for sawing) existed…<!----><!---->
...Beyond that, I think this is an interesting opportunity to examine how purism, usually regarded derogatorily in discussions like this, is really critical…when you talk about "saw horses" my question might be; Are we really talking about saw horses?..<!----><!---->
…Does that make sense? This is sort of emblematic and philosophical to me and I'm not sure I'm expressing myself clearly…This has been my experience using hand tools. Conventional wisdom has let me down time and time again...<!----><!---->
<!---->I now know how Hamlet would have felt about sawhorses, or perhaps how Mahler would have composed them. Just in case I was obscure about your intent, you followed with:<!----><!----><!---->
<!----><!----><!---->…Like your question, all of these questions reveal that the asker needs an education...<!----><!----><!---->
<!---->Well, actually no.<!----><!----><!---->
<!----><!----><!---->Mine was a simple question of practical intent. I wasn't probing the ontology of sawhorses. Your musings in this thread, are so far as I can see, are largely condescending and almost entirely self-referential. They appear to tell me more about you and your views than about sawhorses.<!----><!----><!---->
<!---->You are right when you say: "...KNOTS is a better place if you pretend I'm right next to you." The problem is, I prefer if the people right next to me refrain from preaching and are considerate of the views and aims of others, even if they don't share them.<!----><!---->
Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Edited 3/17/2006 8:09 pm ET by Glaucon
I see your point. And I see why you might feel the way do you. I guess I just wish you'd give me the benefit of the doubt and not just type insults. I really am trying to help.In your synopsis, you accidentally skipped the paragraph where I described a sawhorse that will work for sawing and the explanations of why it works for specific jobs (and why other designs don't for these jobs). Though crude looking, the horse in the picture has all at the attributes you need if you want to saw by hand. Though it doesn't fold, it is collapsible, and has an otherwise uncompromising design for sawing..
Adam,
I enjoyed your contribution. Learning is a motivator for me and a big part of why I enjoy woodworking.
That's funny, ha, ha Adam. After criticising the design I put up as being unsuitable you show us a 'much improved' design that you prefer.
It looks almost the same as my 'unsuitable' design except it has a slightly different construction.
I'm truly puzzled, ha, ha-- ha, ha, ha. Slainte. Richard Jones Furniture
RJ,
I like your drawing and think the sawhorses that would suit me best are those based on your design "variation", perhaps with a gusset to reinforce the legs against splaying. Thanks for posting it,Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
In 40 years, I've built eight or ten pairs much like Jones', but of late, I op-out for these . Slap on a 1 x 6 pressure treated top and you can leave 'em outside. Around $15 to $20 ea at the big box.
John in Texas
Sgian,
I like your design...but with that short neck..looks more like a sheep....lol.
Leave my prediliction for unconventional girlfiends of the ba- ba variety out of this discussion BG. Just because sheep have irresistible eyelashes and sad eyes, and I'm a bit of a sicko, let's stick to sawhorses-- and now you mention it horses have nice eyelashes too. Hmm?
I'm intrigued, and I'm gagging to find out what is so different about Adam's flat topped sawhorse compared to my flat topped sawhorse-- apart from the rusticated hacked with an axe construction versus my crude screwed together construction using machined up bits of wood.
They both look pretty much the same to me-- or am I a bit bloody stupid and missing something essential? Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Sgian,
To be honest, as long as I can find the button on the cabinet saw with my index finger I could give a rats a$$ which sawhorse works best when ripping. However, that does not mean I wouldn't defend your right to use(or date)the sawhorse you choose.
In general, Adam's sawhorse appears to be more traditional in the sense that it uses a chunk of log and no screws. I have no idea how either would fair functionally.
Mine won't tip over and dump you on the floor if you stand on the end of the beam, unlike Adam's, which is anthropometrically a lesser beast.
Darn, I'm already back to sexy sheep!!! Where is Dolly when I need her? Slainte.
Richard Jones Furniture
Edited 3/17/2006 6:11 pm by SgianDubh
Sgian,
"Mine won't tip over and dump you on the floor if you stand on the end of the beam"So true...but which would you want to bring home to meet your dear old mudder...a traditional girl with skinny legs....or a gussied up wide hiped "I can stand on her Ma" precious thing.
Long ago I fell in love with a Jersey cow. It was her lovely eyelashes that fascinated me, not the bits at the other end (I assure you, constable).
She wouldn't have me, though; and I was quite glad when I awoke the next day and took the empties out.
I used to think a saw horse was what pulled the blade round on the TS, before electricity; but its apparently something to put a plank on so you can sit comfortably as you operate the TS.
Lataxe, are you sure you just weren't 'emptied out'?
How low would you like this thread to go? Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
The beauty of mine is that they can be folded.
If Gaucon wants to come and get 4 of the type you prefer,he can have them b4 they get used for firewood.
Wherever I put them they are in the wrong place.
I am reminded of the song....There will never be another ewe.Very popular in kiwi land.
Richard,
How low? Not quite as low as one bends to pull on the wellies before going out for a night of adventure and romance on the fells.
The trick is to never take a torch.
Lataxe
Are the wellies for putting the legs in to stop escaping?
C,
You might think that. I couldn't possibly comment. Sometimes its best to get wet feet.
Lataxe.
Lataxe, I'd say the real trick is not getting caught, ha, ha. So, err, well, embarrasing. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Adam,
If you were to go to a job site where they are building a house , you would find these horses being used to support work being cut with a circular saw mainly and a hand saw rarely,and as mentioned else where, everything else in between.
Tim
A sawing bench
http://www.charm.net/~laurent/charlierodgers/sawbench.html
Regards
Sawhorses should be knock together, throw away, temporary props.
Or soild additions to a shop and built to last.
These are way over 20 years old now, as is the book, and still no complaints.
http://www.woodcraft.com/articles.aspx?articleid=353
yours, Scott
Have you considered the type of sawhorse shown here?
http://homepage.mac.com/dburnard/PhotoAlbum2.html
This is what I came up with.....
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y79/cicero1520/sawhorse.jpg
Like them because one can fold an get out of the way.
Nice... I am working on a modified design that will stack,Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
"Burro Boards" from Home Depot - Cheap, durable, stackable - I have 4 of them that are 10 years old or more. They out in the rain or sun all the time.
John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
The more things change ...
We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.
Petronious Arbiter, 210 BC
Is this the kind of thing you're looking for? These are outdoor examples made from treated pine. I also have some shop ones that are better.
My dad was a shop teacher and used to have a saw horse design that was a project that was a layout project with a framing square and then the legs and cross pieces were cut with a handsaw. If you have a fax machine, come Monday, I will send you the plan.
About a year ago I started searching sawhorse designs for the best. I wanted one that could be left out in the yard for ten years or so, support my weight, hold up a scaffold for putting up siding, and be convienient for use with a circular saw. This evolved into wanting a support for a solid but transportable outdoor workbench.After finding several interesting designs, I started making my own. I have several strange sawhorses in the yard now. My final version can clamp a 2x4 or with shims, anything smaller. The legs are a 11 degrees, anything less does not grip well. 15 degrees is a much tighter grip, but it will mark pine if I lean on it. The more weight you put on this sawhorse the more solid it is. I have no claim to this being the best. There are much easier ones to make. The cost is quite low as is the weight. It stores and transports well. It pleases my eye.
Cedarslayer
I found these traditional Japanese horses. They don't stack or fold up but they are real pretty. I've found that splaying the legs 20° makes a horse that is hard to tip over when you are struggling with something heavy or cumbersome.
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=16082
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Lovely Sawhorse!
I think I will make a shaving horse based on it.
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