Sarge, New SawStop feature at AWFS
forestgirl
| Posted in Power Tools and Machinery on
Hey, Sarge, you’re going to AWFS, right?? I just read that SawStop is introducing a new model, called the “Professional Table Saw” that reportedly has superb dust collection from the blade, due to improved “laminar air flow” created by newly designed blade guard and under-table shroud.
If you have time, check it out and give us one of your thorough reports, eh??
forestgirl — you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can’t take the forest out of the girl 😉
Replies
I'm not going to the AWFS Show this year, FG. But.. you're about a year late on the "new" Professional Sawstop I believe. It was introduced at the IWF Show last August and I went over the Proto-type then. I cannot comment on the "laminar air flow" as they wouldn't crank the Pronto-type up and let you take a test drive.
But.. having owned a saw several years ago with a dust shroud under the blade... I will say that it very efficient at catching an once caught channeled to the mouth of your attached suction system. Some will escape IMO as there is no "holy grail" system to my knowledge.
The saw itself is not as robust as the original in the trunnions and casting but.. the price is what they were shooting for to compete with the Uni-saw.. etc.. for those that just are not going to pay the very large bucks to get the original. The saw does have the hydraulic system and that alone would warrant a closer look if I were in the market which I'm not.
So...any specific questions I can answer from just viewing the saw.. feel free to ask. I do believe they made a few changes to the Proto-type I saw from the grapevine.
BTW... my Italics I .. Black B.. and Underscore U on this forum quit without giving prior notice. This site only so.. do you know if I hit something here accidentally that would cause that? No big deal but I do use the Italics pretty often.
Regards...
Sarge..
Edited 6/25/2009 11:33 am ET by SARGEgrinder47
I think this saw is different, Sarge. It's being "introduced" at the AWFS according to this article. (oops, page is down right now, should be back though)forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Could be different if the Sawstop is going to offer four saws... the original.. the contractor.. the Prototype I saw at IWF and the new Professional which I believe is the same TS. The saw I saw was going to be a cheaper version at around $3 K.
There could be one but the one I saw is already in the Woodcraft stores for around that price along with the original Industrial. I saw it about two weeks ago as the Proto-type finally got released for sale. So.. maybe a 4th saw but I really don't think so with "think so" being the key.
The site is still down. Gotta run to the grocery and then make the ornamative do-ma-hickeys for my desk-hutch. I'll look later as you have my curiousity level peeking on the red line. :>)
Sarge..
I am just off the phone to SawStop on a different matter and asked about the new saw. The tech said it will be available in the fall.
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
FG
SawStop sent me something a couple of weeks ago about the new Pro saw, that is hitting the stores shortly. I you pre-order now, they will include a SawStop, saw blade.
I've seen the new new saw and to me it's a let down. I guess I got spoilt using the big "Industrial" model. The table is smaller, it's lighter..................... All they really did was strip down the Industrial saw.
That was one of the things that was what helped me buy the new Delta Unisaw rather than the SawStop Industrial saw. The other was that they have made a number of modifications on the brake mechanism. I am starting to wonder about, the lifespan of the SawStop. Technology is just changing so fast, things become obsolete by the time they hit the market.
And I have been hard core on buying the SawStop this summer, but after talking with some techky sorts, I just came away with a bad feeling about the purchase. And I can't really put my finger on just one thing they said in was a combination of little things.
I have he New Unisaw 90% set up in the shop now, so there is no turning back now. We fired up the new Monster last night, and boy does it purr.
Taigert
Edited 6/25/2009 7:19 pm ET by Taigert
"Technology is just changing so fast, things become obsolete by the time they hit the market." Can you be more specific about this phenomenon vis a vis SawStop?? My brain isn't making the leap for me, and I'm very curious!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I think his comment was a bit off the mark, as technology usually changes due to changing needs/demands. However, in this case the demand stays the same - stopping the blade.
Chris
It's hard for me to imagine the particular technology involved with SawStop changing all that much anyway -- nobody else is using it, are they?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Forest Girl,
Sorry for taking so long to get back to you.
It seems that the electronics SawStop has been using have been changed a number of times by SawStop. Due to problems they have come up against. I have heard they are now on version 4 or 5. A couple of close friends that work in production shops are finding the life span of the electronics is not that long. They have one year old SawStops that are down with no solutions from SawStop. By the looks of what I have seen lately perhaps the bugs have still got to be worked out. One of the Guys that sell SawStop at Woodcraft was the one telling me about the various versions of brake devices they have had to change. He was saying version three will not work in a saw that runs version 5, and vice versa. I don't need to have a saw where the electronics are allready obsolete. How long will they keep making my version. I have seen it happen to many times with computers. Try finding parts for a Pentium DX-66, or a 486 DX-2, 386,286................................... You know the story.
It was enough to cause me to buy the New Delta. And trust me I wanted the SawStop Industrial Saw. I went to buy it that day, and ended up buying my second choice, the Unisaw. I had done all kinds of research on both saws, but went into the store with the intent of buying the SawStop.
Taigert
I sure would like to get the SS response or version.
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
Edited 6/29/2009 9:49 am by PeterDurand
Peter,
I emailed SawStop back when I heard about the different versions. And also asked about the saws that are unable to be fixed. With no response?
Taigert
Thanks for the info, Taigert. I'll see if I can get more from SawStop.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FG,
I fell in love with the Saw's Industrial Saw while attend Seattle Central Community College. The SawStop was my go to saw. I had a choice of using every other brand made, right up to a Holtzer Panel saw. I really killed me to not buy the SawStop.
So far Delta is not making my very happy with the new Unisaw, that has just made the pain dig in deeper. The saw run fine, it does what it's made to do. It's the tricks they have used to market it. You take all the time to learn as much as you can about a product your going to buy, then end up with less than was offered in the DVD's and interviews you have watched. The fear of not being able to get a needed part down the road due to my version not being carried any longer is just too much. I just can't afford to take a chance on having my table saw go down, waiting for parts.
Sure do miss the nice cool Washington summer, it's been in the low to mid 90's and humid, here in Indiana. Our son fly's back to the coast on Friday to spend six weeks with friends and family. Three weeks in Lynnwood then he fly's to Vancouver to visit with Grandma and my brother. Then the dreaded return back here in mid August and back to school. He is not looking forward to football practice in the hot August weather.
I was going to let you know about the fella who has the old mill I was telling you about. I was out there last Monday to buy some lumber. I got just shy of 500 BF of Ash & about 400 BF of Hard Maple. It's all really nice wood even the boards he said weren't that nice. I can work with them, nothing will go to waste. I was shocked that I came home with a pickup load for $300.00. Sticker shock compared to what I had been paying. I told my wife I should buy a 20 enclosed trailer and start hauling it to the coast, cover my fuel and time. It would be a good deal all around. As for the story idea he said he would think about it, right now he is in his farming mode trying to still get crops in or taken care of. I don't really understand farming that much.
I'll send you some pic's when I can figure out how to get around exceeding my allocation limit?
Taigert
"...right now he is in his farming mode trying to still get crops in or taken care of. I don't really understand farming that much." Farming is a "right now!!!" activity. When stuff has to be done, it has to be done "now" and usually a whole bunch of stuff at once. I know for sure that I don't have what it takes, LOL.
To solve your image file allotment problem, try clicking on the Attach Files button, and then "click here for old attachments". When you get that page, go to the bottom and click on the sentence at the bottom "Click here if you think we have counted your attachment space incorrectly." That will probably reset it to zero, maybe not immediately, but soon.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
thanks, I'll give it a try
Someone sent us a link to this thread and I thought I should probably step in and clarify what seems to be some pretty significant misinformation about supposed different saw versions. I know this may come as a shock, but you can't believe everything a salesman tells you!
First, we have only made one significant change to the electronics and that was about a year and a half ago. This change included changing the plug on the brake cartridge from 15 pins to 9 pins, which means that the older style cartridges don't work in the newer saws and vice versa. However, at the time we made the change we also created a version of the new cartridge to work in the old saw - just with a different plug. The biggest reason for the change was to incorporate a new and more powerful processor that will allow us to do some additional processing to, for instance, hopefully avoid activation on most contacts with metal which is a fairly common cause of inadvertent activations. In the process we simplified the design of the electronics in the cartridge significantly and got more memory which allows us to collect even better data about what happened in a particular activation - sort of a more detailed black box.
Over time we have also periodically updated the software in the brake cartridges to incorporate new features or functionality. For instance, the newest version of the cartridge software has improved algorithms for predicting when the blade will come to a stop and therefore when the brake should be deactivated. In the old cartridges, the software just waited for one second after the last pulse to set the end of coast down. This meant that it could be almost a second after the blade came to a stop before the system recognized that fact and deactivated the brake. We were occasionally seeing users touch the blade right at the end of coast down and causing an unnecessary activation.
As far as the software goes, the various updates are all completely backward compatible and so you can use a cartridge with the oldest software on the newest saw and a cartridge with the newest software on the oldest saw. Moreover, if a customer wants they can always send us cartridges with older software for an update to the latest version. This doesn't come up much because the various changes are pretty minor and mostly address some issue that only comes up rarely so there isn't much reason to update.
Hopefully that will resolve some questions, but please let me know if there are more.
Steve Gass, President
SawStop LLC
Thanks for the info. I would be interested to find out whether the dust collecting blade guard or the quick release zero clearance insert of the Professional cabinet saw will be available as add-ons for the other Sawstop saws.
Yes, the new dust collecting blade guard will be a drop in replacement for the industrial cabinet saw and the contractor saw. The insert is also a drop in replacement and you will have to change to the quick release insert to use the new guard as the antikickback pawls rest a little further out on the new guard and the metal strike plates are a little bigger to accommodate that.
Steve
Let me start by saying that I am very happy you have taken the trouble to address the concerns of some folks here.I have one concern you may want to comment on. I have the industrial model (purchased not too long ago..15 pin model) and am very pleased with it. Except for one thing. Dust collection. The saw is now hooked up via a 7" duct to an Oneida collector. The original 4" outlet was not addressing the dust collecting on the bottom of the main cavity. I was using a 7-4 inch reducer at the saw. After talking to one of your technical folks I proceeded to enlarge the hole to 7 inches and stick the 4" hose in that. It helped. But it still needs refinement. I was thinking of getting a sheet metal person to make some sort of baffle to direct the dust to the collector opening. However I am worried about airflow around the motor and other unknown consequences.Then I saw that the new saw claims to have improved the dust collection with a newly designed blade guard under the table. Can this guard be retrofitted to the industrial model in place of the plastic swing away door? It would be a major improvement in my view.Your views on this dust question would be greatly appreciated.Cheers,Peter
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
Thanks for taking the time to address the issues.
Forest Girl,
Do you remember me telling you before about the President from SawStop addressing issues with thier saw.
That is great customer care, my hat is off to Steve! He beliefs in what he sells, and he truley cares about the enduser, us. A lot more companies should learn from his example.
It would seem the the issue over the changes to the electronics on SawStop Table Saws was somewhat less sibnificant than the Salesman at Woodcraft had made out.
Taigert
It makes me wonder if it boiled down to commission?Cheers,Peter
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
Peter,
It would be really nice to have the answer, but I have a feeling. Any one who knows me knows how much of a safety nut I am and how strong of a Proponent I am about SawStop. When I posted what I did about SawStop I had given them a week to respond to my email directly to them. For some reason it went unanswered. I'm sure Steve will find out why. After my posting I got phone calls asking if I was OK, perhaps a bump on the head or something.
I have a lot of respect for Steve and his company. We put his saws to the ultimate test at school, and they passed with flying colors. But any time we had a question, SawStop was there for us.
Delta has promised me a half dozen times that Mike Bois will be "calling you back today", have not called once.
He:: Steve even email me directly, asking what was up?
I had a broken trunnion on my Rikon 14" Band Saw and Woodcraft were great in the way they handle it. They had the owner of the store go and get one from another state. Deliver it and set it up, I still had to tune it in but I can live with this.
But this issue with the saws has me stumped. The decision of which saw I was coming home with was never a issue of money. I'm not rich by any means, I just know how much I had allocated for the big saw from SawStop. Even my wife and son are stunned that there is no Black and Red Saw in the shop.
I'm going to post my Unisaw review on Lumberjocks, and Sawmill Creek tonight.
Take Care,
Taigert
My sons going home to Seattle and Burnaby Friday morning, sure wish I was going with him!!!!!!!!!!
Steve, a hearty welcome and thank you for coming here to Knots and clarifying the SawStop "upgrade" issue. I am very impressed with how quickly Dylan (the Sales Support Specialist) got my email forwarded to you, and how quickly you took action to get things cleared up. It isn't always a bed of roses around here, but in general we really appreciate manufacturers who care enough to take part in the boards occasionally.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FG - thank you for the heads up - I wasn't sure who that came from. I always try to clear things up if I hear about some unresolved questions in a thread.
Peter - The internal dust collection in the new PCS is more effective than the ICS and unfortunately you can't retrofit. We are looking at whether we can make a new part for the ICS to see if we can further improve it's collection. If you don't want to be vacuuming out the bottom periodically, you will probably need the second port to pick up the dust that misses getting caught by the blade shroud. I'd probably just split and use one 4" port to the shroud and cut a second 4" hole to collect out of the bottom. One problem your setup might be having is that it may be getting strangled by the ability of the cabinet openings to allow enough air to enter to keep the air velocity up to where it should be. Larger dust collection systems are very sensitive to any constrictions and I doubt there is enough opening area in the cabinet to balance a 7" port pulling air out of the cabinet.
I have the 3hp Cabinet Saw and use a 1.5HP Jet Dust Collector most of the time. I try to vacuum the saw out regularly. But it is difficult to get all of the dust out particularly around the saw blade, break, and the rest of the trunion.Is there any sort of regular cleaning schedule I should do and any particular gear or cleaning products I should use?I love the saw and want to keep it in top operating condition.Domer
Domer - It isn't necessary to maintain the saw completely dust free on the inside. In generally, I would try to avoid large dust build ups - i.e. enough to fill the blade shroud or block mechanical movement of the trunnion. The easiest way I've found to clear out dust is to simply spray around through the throat plate with an air gun while the vacuum is running. This seems to clear things out pretty quickly.
Steve
Thanks, I never thought of using the dust collector at the same time as blowing air. That makes too much sense to be obvious.Domer
Gee I wished I could afford one.
Anyway. At my daughter's grad, I noticed a Stopsaw shipping crate out by the IA area.Another IA program lives on!!!!Thanks for the head banging it must have taken, to get that product to market.
Thank you.Cheers,Peter
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
Peter,
Forgot to change the TO: header, sorry. It's been a very long, hot, day today.
Taigert
Hey Peter.... the saw I saw last August at IWF is the new Professional Model. It was the proto-type and un-veiled there. They did change the dust control and added hydraulics to the saw which were not on the proto-type when I saw it. I just looked at the link FG provided and that is not the original dust system on the saw but.. the saw I saw is indeed the Professional but the proto-type meaning.. first design off the drawing board.
That system is not even on the SS web-site yet so it is new indeed. Normally a company will un-veil something new at the IWF or AWFS show but.. someone leaked the info. Maybe even SS for that matter. But.. regardless.... the proto-type I saw is the Professional which they guessed at the time would sell for around $3K estimated as they had not made a conclusion at that time.
So... bottom line here is.... it's the same saw that Frank and several others on another web-site was given to test so the saw itself is definitely not new and the proto-type was seen by all that went to IWF last fall. It is made in a different plant in Taiwan as the Industrial and the SS contractor are made in the Gee-tech plant there. I got to meet the Chinese owner of Gee-tech courtesy of Steel City.
But.. the dust system is new and obviously will be on the new saw along with a few other changes to the original proto-type.
Regards...
Sarge..
I would love to have a look at that so a sheet metal person could make one for me.
Edit:
Duh, all I had to do was go to their web site to see it. Unfortunately the design is not compatible with the original Industrial saw. :-(
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
Edited 6/25/2009 12:46 pm by PeterDurand
I have seen one in person and it is a little let down from the original. I got used to looking at the huge table and mass of the industrial version and the new does not seem outstanding.
I was really interested but they have a policy on it where you have to buy a fence on the saw. I was going to use my Jointech fence and put the router table with the saw to save space but am stuck with buying a fence that I would not use. Made the saw almost as much as the industrial without a fence.
Now I am wondering what direction to head in choosing a move to a cabinet saw from a contactor saw.
Scott
Find out what TS's are available out there that can be purchased without a fence.. compare the prices of those and you have your next one. All the TS's will perform the task of ripping.. cross-cutting.. non-throughs.. etc..... trust me. Since you have a lot of bucks invested in a fence already.. you might even consider a used PM 66.. etc. so you have a hand-ful of options IMO.
Good luck...
Sarge..
Now that is strange. When I bought my SS I had to buy the fence separately. The dealer told me a few folks buy their own favorite and attach it to the saw.Cheers,Peteredit: oops, I was referring to the original Industrial model. Sorry.
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
Edited 6/26/2009 1:39 pm by PeterDurand
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