Replies

1. 
   agibson396 | Aug 29, 2009 07:03am | #1

   You'll definitely need an air return- either back into shop (filtered?) or exhausting to outside.  If not, once the dust collector pressurizes the closet, air flow will dramatically reduce or almost stop.  If exhausting to outside, it will take your heated/cooled air from shop outside.   Several options include filters mounted in the door to the closet.  Best of luck! 

2. 
   Dave45 | Aug 29, 2009 04:16pm | #2

   As much as we all would like to get that noisy SOB (our DC's - lol) outta the shop or enclosed, there are a couple of things that need to be considered before charging ahead.

   1. Access for cleaning and emptying. This job is bad enough when the DC is out in the open and can become a serious PITA if it's closed in.

   2. Keep in mind that ALL of the air pulled into the system gets exhausted thru the filter bag or cannister. (If it can't exhaust, it won't work.) Dust particles smaller than the rating of the bag/cannister (i.e. 1 micron) pass right thru. If your DC is enclosed, this ultra-fine dust will build up in the enclosed space, adding to the cleanup fun.

3. 
   Jamie_Buxton | Aug 29, 2009 05:29pm | #3

   You also should consider cooling air.  A 1.5 hp dust collector produces as much heat as a plug-in space heater -- 1500 watts or so, depending on the motor efficiency.

4. 
   Rich14 | Aug 29, 2009 05:41pm | #4

   Rob,

   The collector must be vented and that's either back to the workshop or outside (or some other room). The topic of venting to the outside has been extensively discussed here. It's a bad idea unless you live in a year-round comfortable climate and don't have to heat or air condition your shop.

   Vented to the outside, the dust collector will very quickly exchange the room air with whatever return flow is available to the workshop. If that's very cold air or very hot air from the outside, that's what temperature your shop will rapidly assume. If return flow comes from the house, you'll get the benefit of some temperature stability in the workshop, but you're still dumping costly heated or cooled air out of your house, VERY fast. Your heater will NOT be able to keep up with the effect of the dust collector! And you'll be paying for all that air flow in increased heating or cooling costs.

   Dust collector motors do not take kindly to rapid cycling on and off as one might do with a table saw or other wood cutting equipment. We seldom leave our equipment on for long periods. We start and stop many times in an hour of wood working. But the collector should be left running for a lot of that time. My 5 HP motor on my Clear Vue cyclone would burn up if I cycled it several times a minute or even several times in 2 minutes. A 1.5 hp motor may not be drawing as much current, especially through the start-up circuitry to have as much as a problem as a 5 hp.

   Noise comes mainly from the intake ports and the exhaust. But it also comes from the motor. I have my cyclone in a corner of the shop. Without the sheet rock enclosure I built (sheet rock on BOTH sides of the 2x4 stud walls), I could not possibly work when it's running. The sound level (95 dB) is so high, I can't hear any of my equipment, can't even hear the table saw blade making the cut. It's almost painful and frankly dangerous, it's so distracting. It's like standing next to a jet engine that's running.

   The collector exhausts right back into the shop through multiple gaps and cut-outs. They are small but their total area prevents any reduction in air flow. And eliminating one large return port creates the effect of baffling, reducing some of the noise carried in the return air flow. Yes, there is still noise from the exhaust port, but the enclosure makes a world of difference in the sound level.

   Rich

1. 
   kootenayboy | Aug 29, 2009 07:28pm | #5

   Rich and everyone,

   Thanks for your thoughtful input.  Conclusion so far:

   1. Vent air back into shop & either use furnace filter or baffle somehow to further reduce noise.

   2. Ensure easy cleanout and bag removal.

    

   Further question:  If baffling, how do I know how much 'air space' is sufficient to not reduce machine efficiency?

    

   Thanks again,

   Rob

1. 
   flairwoodworks | Aug 29, 2009 07:33pm | #6

   Rob,What's your plan for turning it on and off? Do you have a remote switch?Chris @ http://www.flairwoodworks.com and http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com)

    - Success is not the key to happiness.  Happiness is the key to success.  If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer

1. 
   kootenayboy | Aug 29, 2009 08:46pm | #8

   I'll be converting the DC to 220 and have a dedicated switched circuit for it with a switch easily accessible and near my machines.

1. 
   spotcheck | Aug 30, 2009 07:13pm | #9

   There are inexpensive remotes that work really well - the price has come way down since I got mine 10 - 12 yrs ago.  I got 2 extra control units, and have them scattered around.  Even though my DC is near the tools (aka small shop), to me the walk to the switch was a PITA.

2. 
   jonnieboy | Sep 01, 2009 06:37am | #10

   Kootenayboy,

   First, thanks for posting your question. I'm just about to tackle this noisemaker problem child in my shop. And now I know how!

   Second, I agree with the cheap remote control system. I don't have the multiple remotes, and I'm keeping on the lookout, but it is so nice to have that little remote button handy. I put mine on velcro and attached it to a little board that I can hang near any machine I'll be using. I don't move it around much, but long live the remote.

   -jonnieboy

2. 
   Rich14 | Aug 29, 2009 08:40pm | #7

   Rob,Just make sure the total ares of ports (holes) in the enclosure is at least equal to the area of the collector's discharge port.The walls of my enclosure are filled with cotton batting which really absorbs sound. Because I had no idea how much the batting would restrict air flow between holes in the inner and outer walls, I have a lot more area combined in those return holes than the machine's discharge port which is 5-1/2" x 7" where it enters the stacked filters. Also, the access door is a loose fit. Not real scientific, but there's no air flow reduction (that I can tell) and the noise is adequately reduced.If your machine's discharge port is round, well use the good old formula, A = pi x radius squared.I had no idea how loud the thing was until I had put it together and turned it on the first time. It literally scared me half to death. It is a monster. What I'd REALLY like to do is put the machine outside (with the return air coming back in, of course). THAT would REALLY reduce the noise in the garage. But my neighbors would probably run me out of town on a rail. The garage is in the front of the house, and besides the noise, I don't think the appearance would comply exactly with the home owner association's CC&Rs!Rich

2. 
   jonnieboy | Sep 01, 2009 06:50am | #11

   Dust collector motors do not take kindly to rapid cycling on and off as one might do with a table saw or other wood cutting equipment.

   Hey Rich,

   Your reply to the original post was very helpful to me, regarding enclosing the  dust collector.

   As an aside, I'd never thought about the cycling of the DC motor. I do it quite a bit.

   I'm converting my Delta 1.5 hp to 240V soon, which cuts the amperage in half, and would seem to be easier on the motor, et al.

   I don't want to hijack this post, but could you (or anyone) elaborate more on experience or knowledge about cycling a dust collector motor on and off?

   -jonnieboy

1. 
   Rich14 | Sep 01, 2009 02:06pm | #12

   jonnie,I believe the problem is simply one of current flow through the start-up circuitry and windings during starting. The more current the motor draws, the more one has to avoid rapid cycling. A 5 hp motor is at greater risk than a 1.5 hp, and I would assume running your motor at 240 vs 120 would reduce the heating by a factor of 2.Any motor will heat if you rapidly recycle it. It's the amount of heat that matters. Table saw motors are no exception. Mine are 4 hp. I don't cycle them as much as I would have done on my 1.5 hp contractor model saw.I had some discussion with Ed Morgano, the owner of Clear Vue before he shipped my cyclone and he specifically cautioned about the 5 hp Leeson motor (an extremely robust unit), not to turn it on and off with every flip of the table saw switch. At 5hp, the motor draws well over 100 amps on start up. The motor circuit is properly wired with 30 amp breakers. They never trip. The start up surge is very short, normal, and easily tolerated by the breakers and 10 ga wiring.Many small DCs are set up to sense a piece of equipment's turning on and off and run only when they do. That's probably ok for them.When I first set mine up, I gingerly threw the switch for it's virgin run. The thing was so frighteningly loud and the nature of the screaming noise was so alarming, I cut the power way before it had even reached full speed. Then over the next minute or 2, I turned it back on for a few fractions of a second longer each time. I was afraid I had not bolted the thing adequately to the wall. I just couldn't believe anything that sounded like that wasn't going to rip it self off its mounts.I had absolutely no reason to fear it coming loose, but it was hard to believe that during that initial run. I must have cycled it 5 or 6 times, completely oblivious in my apprehensiveness to the warnings not to do that.Nothing was damaged, but the casing of the startup section and the motor were VERY hot! In normal operation, it doesn't get warm at all.Rich

1. 
   Rich14 | Sep 01, 2009 02:48pm | #13

   I was wrong in that last message about motor heating. It's a function of power, not just current flow and power = Voltage x Current. Your 1.5 hp motor will draw the same power wired for 120 or 240.At 120, the current draw will be A. Power will be 120 x A.At 240 the current draw will be 240 x 1/2A = 120 x A.The wiring to the motor can be lighter gauge at 240 than at 120 as it is carrying 1/2 the current, but the motor will consume (dissipate) the same power.Actually at 240, in some shops, equipment will develop more power at 240 than 120. That's because the shop wiring doesn't adequately handle the current at 120 and there's voltage drop between the power box and the equipment. At 240, the drop is 1/2 and the motor gets all its needed power.Rich

2. 
   jonnieboy | Sep 01, 2009 07:16pm | #14

   Thanks, Rich.

   It would be fun to see a video of you cranking up the machine for the first time. It sounds like you all but hid under the workbench. "Take cover!"

   Talk to you soon.

   --jonnieboy