Replies

1. 
   dukeone | Jun 29, 2005 09:04pm | #1

   C.W.: I have a metal five drawer toolbox which is the left "leg" of my work bench. It has an electric heater underneath on a lamp dimmer. Keeps the whole box above ambient and moisture at bay. All my planes, chisels, router bits, handsaws and anything else prone to rust are in there, no rust ever. I use the dimmer to adjust the current; lower in summer higher in winter for my local atmospheric conditions. A humidistat would also work if you can find a proper place to mount it. A thermostat would not be correct because it can be warm and damp at the same time. Just be careful with wireing and mounting of the heater. There are some units made for this purpose but they are pricey. Another way to go is a solid state heater, not cheap but last almost forever and can be just left on 24/7. Link below. KDM

   http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/searchresults.jsp?search_type=keyword&QueryString=panel+heater&catindx1=Heater&catindx2=Control+Panels&xi=xi

   Kenneth Duke Masters
   The Bill of Rights
   December 15 1791
   NRA Endowment Member
   LEAA Life Member
   CRPA Member
1. 
   clearwrite | Jun 29, 2005 09:38pm | #4

   KDM, Thanks so much for the prompt reply. I believe I have the parts I need to explore this option and a humid holiday weekend to try it. I've only just started the foil business, so I'll continue experimenting with that fix as a separate solution. Will report back on results. Thanks again. CW

2. 
   Samson | Jun 29, 2005 09:16pm | #2

   Borrowed from another author on the web:

   "First of all, lets just define rust. Rust occurs when iron combines with oxygen to form iron oxide. There are different types of iron oxide but rust forms only when there is plenty of oxygen available and is characterised by that red-brown colour.

   Now iron will not react with the oxygen in the air. Do you remember when you were in kindergarten? Your teacher probably asked you to hold hands with another child when you went outside. Well in air an oxygen travels around in partnership with another oxygen. In this combined state the oxygen in the air does not react with iron.

   When the oxygen in the air dissolves in water (this oxygen is what allows fish and other aquatic life to breathe), each oxygen separates from its partner and goes round on its own. Iron can combine with oxygen in this singular state and does so."

   Water gets on your tools from condensation:

   "Air is composed of many gases.   One of these is water in a gaseous from, called water vapor.  The amount of water vapor that air can hold is a function of temperature.  When the air comes in contact with an object at a temperature where water vapor will change to a liquid, it is known as the dewpoint temperature.  This process is called condensation."

   If the metal of your tools is cooler than the humid air around it, the water vapor condenses on the iron and oxidizes it.

   Forgive me if you know all this, but to my mind, once you understand the causes, the possible way to prevent rust become plain:

   - store your tools in an airtight container (tupperware for example) with a desiccant ("A substance, such as calcium oxide or silica gel, that has a high affinity for water and is used as a drying agents") to soak up humidity in the little air trapped in the container.

   - keep your tools oiled (Camelia, Sewing machine, 3 in 1, etc.) or waxed so the water can't get to the surface - wrapping the tools in a rag used to wipe in the machine oil helps too

   - put a light bulb in your tool storage compartment - it will act as a heat source to dry out the air and warm up the tools which both decrease the condensation

   - I've never heard of the aluminum foil one, but I'd imagine it might work just because it covers the metal and the condensation forms on the aluminum rather than the iron

   Hope this helps. 

1. 
   clearwrite | Jun 29, 2005 09:47pm | #5

   Samson, trust me: you weren't being too basic. I appreciate the chemistry...which helps make sense of the whole thing. I've used air-tight (well, pretty air-tight) containers and the oils--even gun grease--but both solutions make the tools less readily accessible. Heating the tools sounds interesting, with the bulb as you suggest or, more elaborately, per KDM's ideas, above. I've only just started the foil experiment. It's worth a try. One advantage: the tools remain at-hand, and I can still identify them quickly by their shapes. (I tried the Woodcraft silicone-impregnated storage bags. Considerations: (1) they're expensive; (2) unless you tag the bags, you have to open them to see what's inside; and (3) they didn't work. Other than that, they were fine.) Thanks very much for the suggestions. CW

3. 
   BG | Jun 29, 2005 09:38pm | #3

   Clearwrite,
   If your looking for a good cheap solution...use the bags(recycle, eat cereal first) your cereal come in for your tools. I can keep my brushes wet for months stored in the bags with an elastic band.

    

1. 
   clearwrite | Jun 29, 2005 09:50pm | #6

   BG, do you mean the wax-paper inner bag inside the cardboard cereal box? You store the tool in the bag and close it with a rubber band? Thanks, CW

1. 
   BG | Jun 30, 2005 02:49am | #7

   clearwrite,
   Yes, the wax paper bag (altough I think it something a bit more special than wax paper). I have no idea how long cereal sits on shelves but its always crisp and fresh tasting...so it seems to protect well against air and moisture. 

1. 
   clearwrite | Jun 30, 2005 05:52pm | #8

   BG, I'll give it a shot. Perfect size for some of the bench chisels and smaller planes. Can't beat the price. Incidentally, I see why you feel my pain: you're a Bostonian. I'm a bit north of you, in York ME, but we pretty much share the same humidity. Thanks again, CW

1. 
   BG | Jun 30, 2005 11:22pm | #11

   clearwrite,
   Actually, for some unknown reason I have no moisture problems (knock wood) in my basement shop. I'm near the Woburn Woodcraft and probably 6- 8 miles from the water(as the crow flys)but for some reason I lucky.
   CherryJohn lives up on the coast of NH I believe...he has a problem when he gets spitting mad....lol. Anyhow, welcome aboard and maybe we'll all get to meet someday up at Woodcraft in NH. 

2. 
   clearwrite | Jul 01, 2005 03:59am | #12

   BG, Good to meet you. Our SeaCoast Woodworkers group meets the second Tuesday of every month at the Woodcraft store in Newington, right off 95, a half block west of Portsmouth. If you get a chance to visit, you'll feel comfortable: Bob Abbott (who for 100 years anchored the Woburn store) has been in our Newington location for a couple of years...but he hasn't changed a bit! If you can venture up some night, let me know in advance, and I'll introduce you as an honored guest. We have what we like to call a "pre-meeting briefing" at the Red Hook micro-brew pub about two hours before the meeting. Gives the guys a chance to have a beer and burgie before the meeting, which is five minutes away. Every other month we have guest speakers and have had some pretty impressive presenters. Other than that, the guys are just a fun group. Love to have you join us. CW (Mark)

3. 
   EdHarrow | Jul 01, 2005 04:51am | #13

   I'm west of you in glorious Woodville, on the charming shores of Lake Whitehall...

   Most of my hand tools live in "Poppie's" wooden tool box, and I do nothing to them with respect to rust prevention.  Wood seems to make a difference.  My tablesaw gets whacked with Butcher's Wax on occassion, and seems to do just fine.  (I do cheat and run a de-humidifier ;-) )

   We have friends who have a summer place up on Squam lake - they keep stuff like crackers, chips, etc in what, IIRC, they call a brisker.  It's basically a breadbox with a 60-Watt lightbulb in it.  Works great!

   Wax does work well.

4. 
   BG | Jul 01, 2005 01:34pm | #16

   Clearwrite,
   Thank you for the open invitation, sounds like a fun time with a bunch of good liars. 

2. 
   Daggs | Jul 01, 2005 06:50am | #15

   24378.8 in reply to 24378.7
   clearwrite,
   Yes, the wax paper bag (altough I think it something a bit more special than wax paper). I have no idea how long cereal sits on shelves but its always crisp and fresh tasting...so it seems to protect well against air and moisture.They put preservative in the wax that makes the wax paper. BHT is the common one.

4. 
   Walker1 | Jun 30, 2005 07:13pm | #9

   I know your frustration.I live in the southwest coast of British Columbia.I have a detatched shop,finished inside but to expensive to heat, I've tried. Humidity is a major problem here. I'ts like samson said ,I've went into the shop and found my tools soaking wet because the dew set in. Well the day came to bring home my new machines from general. I had to come up with a solution fast,and I did. I went down to Home Depot and bought a bunch of clamp lamp worklights ,the ones with the bright aluminum reflective shade and 50and 100 watt halogen floodlights .I came home and mounted them over my machines and anywhere else I needed them, it was easy because the lamps are aimable. With those bulbs in those lamps the radiant heat is excellent. It completley solved my problem and it makes the whole shop feel drier. I use 500 watts total one third the power of one space heater. I don't even notice it on my power bill. I also use topcoat on everything. If I were you I would mount chisels planes etc. on the wall, displaycase, pegboard whatever and aim a lamp right on them. It will look great and easy acess. One more thing I never put anything in closed drawers or closed cabinets, moisture gets in quickly and is very slow to leave.   Cheers.

1. 
   clearwrite | Jun 30, 2005 10:38pm | #10

   Walker, thanks so much for your thoughtful reply. It appears heating the tools, one way or another, is the solution. Your proposal seems the most affordable and easiest to live with. Also, the problem here is really only serious for three months of each year. So again, the portable lights would be an easy way to accommodate a temporary situation. Interestingly, I don't have nearly as much trouble with the large stationary tools. I do use topcoat, but that's about it. The occasional rust spots are easy to see and to remove with 3M pads. The real problem with the hand tools is that rust attacks the most vulnerable (i.e., thinnest) part of the tool, and that, of course, is the cutting edge of plane and chisel blades. And that can literally happen overnight. If pitted badly enough, the edges have to be re-ground rather than simply honed, and that's a real drag. Lights it is. Thanks for the advice. CW

5. 
   none | Jul 01, 2005 05:02am | #14

   Try a vapor emitter, Bullfrog being one brand. Klingspor has them in their catologue. Front end parts( automobile) come wrapped in vapor emiting paper. Have a local mechanic save you some. Contact LN planes about the possibility of buying some of the paper they wrap their planes in. Many packing supply companies sell  these papers, but only in large rolls. Some brands of cat litter are mostly silica gel, you know the stuff that is in the little paper packs with electronic devices. Put some in an uncovered container with your tools . On sunny warm day take container outside and let dry out.