I have read the 2005 FFW article on the best router for a router table. I am curious what the more recent thinking is on the brand of router and whether to use a lift or not and which one. My priorities are:
Being able to change the bit above the table
Variable speed
Ability to handle big jobs i.e. power
1/2″ chuck
Also tell me the other things I’m missing
Replies
I found myself in a similar place after fighting with one of those "homecenter" bench-top router tables and a porter cable mounted under it. I got to the point where I would spend time figuring out how to do things without using a router just because I disliked the thing that much... plus it scared me every time I used it because of all the bad experiences and messed up pieces it gave me.
Finally went to the local woodcraft store and told the guy I had enough and wanted something that would work reliably and safely for when I "had" to use the thing.
It was an expensive trip, but I left with a JessEm Mast-R-Lift and a dedicated 3HP porter cable to sit in it. I then took the extension table off my Jet 50" table saw (large particle-board surface with laminate surface) and built a torsion box into the thing. Then I cut out the correct size for the lift and built a narrow (10" wide?) by the depth of the table saw "enclosure box" to surround the router and allow for a 2" PVC to connect my dust collector and keep things clean. Also added a shelf on full-length slides to take advantage of the space between the bottom of the enclosed portion and the floor. Finally, stole the switch and plug in from the old bench top router table and used it for the new one.
Now, I can use the Exacta-fence on the saw, along with all 60"x 24" of table saw workspace for a router table. If you've ever seen any of the David Marks shows on cable, it's basically the same idea.
As for the lift and router, well I like routers again. The crank works easily and adjusts to a rediculously small tolerance. No locking the router after height adjustments and bit removal isn't painful. The lift, plus a high-HP motor and a nice enclosure with air-tight dust collection makes routing useful and enjoyable again.
Only dislike so far is the single insert that came with the lift. It doesn't sit absolutely flat with the lift's surface. It's recessed by maybe 1/64"-1/128". Yea, this is picky, but with a setup like this you start to notice even the smallest imperfections. Haven't looked into buying after-market inserts.
Rockler has an asortment of the inserts for the lift that you have.
Thanks. I'll check with them when my laziness is replaced by dire need... you know, when it's too late!
Although I've never had one, I'm confident that a really good lift, with a good router, is a wonderful thing.
I have a home-made router table -- it's the left-side extension of my table saw. And the router plate is one I made too. I designed it so that it would be easy to lift the plate and router out of the table as a unit.
And because I can do that, bit changes "above the table" take no more time than it would to flip a hand-held router upside down.
The other aspect of a really good lift is the ease with which you can make hieght adjustments, from above the table. An that is something that I can't do with my setup. I need ot get down on one knee, an fiddle with the knobs.
Oh -- and my table router is a Hitachi M12V. It's at least OK -- could be better, but for the price.........
The "best" set of choices really depends on what you're doing and how much space you have. If you have room for a cabinet-mounted router table, great. I don't, so I bought just a table top (including split fence and router plate), and clamp that in my large WorkMate as needed.
I'd recommend at least a 2 1/4hp router, 3 1/4hp if you plan on using larger bits (e.g. for raised panels, etc.). Variable speed (either built in or via an external speed control) is essential for mid-sized and larger bits.
Lifts are a personal choice in my opinion. My 2 1/4hp router is light enough that I can lift it and the plate out of the table with a pair of 1/4-20 bolts with fender washers on the heads more quickly than using a lift. Plus, I can see things better when it's on the table, and that ensures that I've unplugged the thing from the paddle switch mounted on the WorkMate. I might change my mind about the lift if I had a heavier, 3 1/4hp router, however.
If you have the shop room, a stand alone router table is a great asset. There are many versions out there, mine is a mixture of several shown in woodworking magazines, and Norm Abram has a neat one available in plan form from his website, the New Yankee Workshop. I use a router lift, and while they do cost a few, more than a few actually, dollars I don't know what I would do without it. Mine is the Woodpeck PRL-V2, here, and it mounts a PC 7518 router. I recently upgraded from the PRL to the PRL-V2. The 7518 has 3 1/4 hp, 1/4 & 1/2' collets, and five speeds. Mostly bulletproof and very powerful.
Above table bit changes are quick and easy, the lift has a wheel adjustment for fine tuning the bit height, a rod for making large height changes quickly, and adjustable drag to make sure it stays where you put it. The ability to change the Twist-Lok rings for different diameter bits means I can support the work close to the bit, regardless of the diameter of the bit I am using.
I guess you can tell that I like the combination that I have! Accurate, powerful, adjustable speeds, above table bit changes, dedicated table, lots of bit storage in the table, and an Incra fence system to boot! It's great!!
Just my 2cw.
Bruce
WHAMMO,
Table mounted routers will do a fine job simulating a shaper, but if the cost of the table mounted router approaches the cost of the shaper..it doesn't make sense to build a router table.
I've got the 3.25 Triton in a Norm router table with dust collection on board. There is enough space to keep all the paraphernalia together. The Triton has its own lift system and bits are changed above the table. I've got a Rockler router plate laying in a 1 1/4" thick top.
All is good and works fine. However, the shaper has a coat iron top and a much better motor. The transference of vibration is minimized. I believe cutters are less likely to ride up and destroy your stock, or break. My set up is about half the cost of a shaper...I got what I paid for.
I'm planning on getting the Triton and a Bench Dog 24x32 cast iron top for say $800-$900. That's a much larger surface than I believe comes on a $2100 entry level shaper. Also I think it may be easier to change speeds on a router, or at least you may have more speeds to choose from. Sounds like you like your Triton just fine, so that reaffirms my decision--correct me if I'm wrong.Brian
I wouldn't mind having a shaper and decent used ones come up at reasonable prices. What holds me back is the price of tooling, while the shaper may be fairly inexpensive the tooling can be 5x time the price of a comparable router bit. Tack on the price of a power feed to keep your pinkies away from the cutter....
I have two router tables now, one with lift - one without. I have an Hitachi M12V in the table without the lift and a Milwaukee 2 1/4 HP in a less expensive Jessem XL lift. Running rail and stile I use the Hitachi for stile then it's very easy to set the Milwaukee with lift to match the rails to the stiles.
I started 25 years ago clamping one of the old square base Makita 3612B routers upside down in a vise for a router table, graduated to making one from the free plans another ww pub used to include with a subscription. The last two I bought, the lift most recently - love it.
I'm always a little mystified when I hear that shaper cutters are so much more expensive than router bits. I've never used a shaper, much less bought tooling, but can't one simply use 1/2 shank router bits?Brian
Brian,Shaper bits are bored out to slip over the machine's arbor and are locked in place with a nut, a shaper doesn't have a collet to tighten onto a router bit's shaft. Some shapers have a removable spindle that can be replaced with one that has a collet for router bits but they aren't as common and the slower speed of the shaper, usually no more than 10,000 RPM, means that many router bits won't cut as well when used that way. Some of the European shapers have a high speed setting for use with router bits, but your into a lot of money at that point.John White
Shop Manager for FWW Magazine, 1998-2007
I just noticed that some of the Jet and PM are shipped with 1/4 and 1/2 collets . . . though not the same as router collets they may fulfill the same function . . . here's a question--how many of you use router bits in your shapers?Brian
Having router-bit collets available for shapers is a versatility/convenience sort of thing, I believe. That is to say, for a few dollars more, they allow the occasional use of router bits for specific profiles, and that sort of thing. But, it's like getting a .22 caliber auxiliary barrel for your .50 cal Desert Eagle. ;-)
Okay, I understand that router bits in a shaper is convenient, but is there anything in the conversion that reduces the power of the operation? Say you run a given panel raising profile with a shaper cutter and with a router bit w/ adaptor--is there an actual difference in performance because of the adaptation? Same profile, same tool, what's the difference, and does it amount to anything beyond preference? Not convinced one can cut the 'calibur' of a machine simply by adding a collet. I really am seeking specifics and not just being argumentative.Brian
No problem, Brian. I'm not sure my caliber analogy holds up, but I think a lot depends on the size of the machine. With shapers, 3HP driving a 3/4" spindle is on the "wimpy" side, while I'd suspect that 5HP driving a 1" or 1 1/4" spindle is more common. Shaper cutters also tend to be larger and beafier than router bits designed for the same task. So, it's sort of an apples and oranges type of comparison. Moshka's post above seems to summarize the basic differences well, I think. More mass and greater HP makes the shaper a better choice for higher production levels. But a router setup might be fine for occasional work (fewer pieces) of a similar nature.With the router-bit adaptation on a shaper, it seems to me that the HP is still there, but the adaptation reintroduces the smaller shaft size and the associated implications for the quality of cut. That is to say, one is trading the 1" or 1 1/4" spindle for the 1/2" router-bit shaft. Thus, more passes might be needed to make the same cut, so as not to over-stress the smaller shaft on the smaller router bit. Freud's shaper cutters for raised panels are around 5" in diameter, compared to 3 1/2" or so for the similar router bits.So, my guess is that those who run big shapers (I don't) use the router bit adapters for specialty profiles that aren't available as shaper cutters.
The lower rpm of the shaper means that the router bit doesn't spin fast enough to get the cutting edge up to speed, and the cut quality is less than it could be.
Have you checked out the Router Raizer? I have a M12 table mounted also and the raizer works well. What's nice is that it also works out of the table and is just a tad over $50 @ Grizzly.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
I've been thinking about a Router Raizer for a long time just haven't gotten around to it. Thanks for the headsup about Grizzly.
Bill
BG,It seem to me that your analysis is quite accurate. I've got a large router table with the triton as you do and find that quite a reasonable solution for small jobs. However, I've also got a 5hp shaper with 1 1/4 spindle and when I'm cutting rails and stile joints for all the doors in a kitchen cabinet job.... it is a far far better solution. As you say less vibration, smooth cuts,
better control and frankly when your running the thing for hours on a job; that might well have burnt up a router - you have saved money. The shaper allows you to take bigger cuts and on things like raised panels; which can be done in one pass. In summary it depends on the type of work your doing and whether you do a lot of work at a time. Quick small jobs the router table is better.I've got about a dozen shaper cutters and more than sixty router bits.
The cutters cost more and are limited to standard production types.... while router bits can be highly specialized. Again, two tools which can do the same types of things in small quantity. In large quantity the shaper is the better tool.
Moksha
IncrementalTools.com has the Jessem Mast-R-Lift on sale for $269. I think the sale ends today.
Greg
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Exo 35:30-35
For what it is worth. I have several router tables. Usually just use two of them.
The one I use most is mounted on my TableSaw... I have the Jessem Mast-R-Lift and the cast iron BenchDog table. Although I had to make a 'special insert' so that the Mast-R-Lift fit into the opening provided in the BenchDog.
And on this I use a PC 1.5 HP? Works for me and I have never found a need to up the HP. I cut alot of hard woods.. Mostly Jatoba, purpleheart, Ash, White/Red Oak, and whatever I find on 'sale'.. I have higher HP hand held routers. I mostly use my TS setup.
YES, will george is will george... #I sort of like me as I am#
I have no problem squatting down and then crawls under the TS to changes bits... I never found lifting out the router and lift easier to change bits! Besides all that lifting in/out would probably ruin my 'special' insert. Not a metal insert. MDF and pretty thin in height and width around the 'lift'.. IT WAS HARD to make and not sure I want to again! I could have made a metal 'fitting plate' but my X... Son-in-the-#### took most of my metal working tools.. OK, so I thought he was a nice guy, and gave them to him.. He sold them.. I think..
I considered a shaper a few time but I could do my work #without too much grief# on my current setup.
I am NOT suggesting anything YOU should do. Nothing is WRONG with a big HP router in a router table!
And just to state where I am coming from.. I bought a digital attachment that tells me the height of the bit in Inch and MM for my router lift on the TS.. It is very accurate.. I find that I still use my ruler and my set-up blocks I use for common jobs...
I guess 'stuck in my ways of doing things'..
As Porky Pig Would say..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7CclVneVpw
Thats all folks!
Edited 5/14/2009 6:26 am by WillGeorge
George,Thanks for the response. I agree that for some of us 3-1/2HP is way overkill for routers. The ratings are misleading but that is a topic for another post. I have a DeWalt 625 but chose a 2-1/4HP for the table because I didn't plan on taking large cuts in one pass. I am not running a production shop.If the digital height readout is accurate, why are you not using it? Just habit or distrust or ???I was thinking of adding one, but wondered if it is really worth the $100.Greg
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My dream router table has a Woodpecker lift and a PC 7518 router.
My actual router table, is not quite there yet...
I have this setup in a Woodpeckers table with a Twin Linear Incra fence system. I have put together the existing set up in it's final version over the past 10 yrs. I couldn't ask for more. You absolutely can't go wrong with Woodpecker and Indra products with this PC router. The new Woodpecker lift (silver one) is great. Richard Hummel and his group outdid themselves on this one.
If I were in the market I would take a hard look at a Jessem MasterLift, and their version of the Milwaukee 3.5-hp motor with the speed control mounted on the panel, not the motor.
See my post listed under "PC 7518" for my router set up.
I've been impressed with my new Freud upright router table and 3 1/2 hp
Porter-Cable router. Dont screw around with the litlle stuff. When its all said and done, you will waste money trying to save money on wannabe equipment. Easy to change bits, nice solid table, and a quality machined fence system. AND NEVER UNDERPOWERED!
Porter-Cable router. Dont screw around with the litlle stuff.
Sir, I agree more HP is better (If you can afford it).
However in my opinion, "Porter-Cable router. Dont screw around with the litlle stuff." is a bit strong.
Been using the 'Dont screw around with the litlle stuff.' routers for years. They work for me! I do admit, I hardly ever use a bit bigger than my 2 1/2 inch Whiteside. (I AM surely getting old.. I forgot what bit for the moment).. Just me..
Anyway, I have more HP routers. But I use it for hand held routing that I find will not work on my router tables.
I AM NOT saying that if it is affordable, NOT to get a BIG Growed' Up router. We buy what we can afford at the time, I think...
I remembered! My Whiteside 2 1/2 inch Dia. LockMiter!
Pokin' fun and serious at the same time.
No offense taken. Right tool for the right job. Just implying that you cant bulid raised panel doors with a palm router and you cant trim formica with a 3 hp plunge. But if it is marginal grade or top of the food chain equipment, you need the proper hp for the job.
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