Replies

1. 
   goldhiller | Jul 29, 2002 01:12am | #1

   I’m also running a large HP PC router. Can’t recall as I sit here exactly which model it is either, but it’s 2 ½ HP. Mine has a “bottomless” collet, meaning that if the bit is lowered in full shank length, it never hits a “bottom”. Don’t know whether or not yours is equipped the same or if it has a “bottom”. If it does have a bottom and you’re lowering your bit in until it strikes, you’re asking for this type of thing to occur because as that bit heats up, it expands, and can begin pushing itself off the bottom and out of the collet. Sometimes this is all the “assistance” that’s needed to continue the process. We had a new router that used to do this to us in the shop many years ago until we wised up and stopped lowering the bit all the way, but rather stopped short by 1/16th or so. I’m still using that router today. You could give this a try and see what happens.

   Does this always occur with the same bits, perhaps from the same manufacturer? Have you measured those shanks?

1. 
   forestgirl | Jul 29, 2002 03:17am | #2

   Your point about measuring the shanks is well-taken.  A few weeks ago, when I was having trouble with an old router (since tossed), I sat down with a caliper and checked a bunch of shank sizes and found that they differed more than I expected.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

2. 
   uncommontree | Jul 29, 2002 06:23am | #3

   BUN.

   Just a couple of thoughts. Are you using anything to protect your bits while not in use, like WD-40 etc. Could there be a obstruction inside the collate nut not allowing it to tighten down completely. We had a discussion a week or so ago about bit speed and the results of to high or to low rpm. Is your P-C VS. Lastly did you remove the nut, collate and look down in the collate hole and check for build up of packed dust , pitch. Goo. This stuff can get very hard over time.

   F-G posted a great rule of thumb for bits and rpm maybe she would post it again ?

                                 Hope all turns out well Rick............

1. 
   forestgirl | Jul 29, 2002 07:53am | #6

   Hi Rick, as you wished:

   According to Patrick Spielman's Router Handbook, the following speeds are (generally) recomended, and might be modified depending on many factors including type of material being cut, number of flutes and sharpess, HP of router:

   Up to 1" diameter       22,000-24,000 rpm

   1.25" to 2" diameter   18,000 rpm

   2.25" to 2.5" diameter 16,000 rpm

   2.5" to 3.5" diameter    8,000 - 12,000 rpm

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

1. 
   uncommontree | Jul 29, 2002 03:08pm | #7

   Thanx F-G.

   Hows life over there on the big pond, been really stinkin Hot here. Started a addition for a kitchen so I only have time for eating and sleeping, in that order. Hope all is well with you and your Sweetie pie.  Rick......

1. 
   mitch | Jul 29, 2002 03:24pm | #8

   is this happening with up-shear bits?  these can pull themselves out of the collet when cutting (instead of pulling chips out of the cut)  one sign of this is if it happens more on hard stock like maple than it does with, say, mdf or pine.

   mitch

2. 
   forestgirl | Jul 30, 2002 12:31am | #10

   Hi Rick, if you can squeeze the time, help us out at this thread:

   http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-knots&msg=7153.5

   They're talking about offing the guard on a jointer, thought you might have some opinion on that idea, LOL!

   Weather here was hot for a few days, but not long enough, IMHO.  Cool and almost drizzly the last couple days.  Happy Sawdusting!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

2. 
   kenwood7 | Jul 29, 2002 05:15pm | #9

   Rick, Thanks for your thoughts. Will try your suggestions and see what happens. Bun

3. 
   mike4244 | Jul 29, 2002 06:30am | #4

   Try changing manufacturers of your router bits. I only use whiteside , amana  or freud. I had the same problem with two bits , a straight and a ogee bit. I do not recall the manufacturer of these bits.My uncle is a machinist, he checked the shanks and found neither bit was 1/2".He then checked all my bits and found the whiteside and amana bits were right on.I had no freud bits at the time but have several now, they haven't ever slipped.

4. 
   sschefer | Jul 29, 2002 06:57am | #5

   7518 is the model. The collet is a compression type fitting. These type of collets rarely slip unless you are not seating the bit fully into the collet or you are not tightening it correctly. You should be able to set the bit fully to the bottom of the collet, (end of router shaft). Tightness is a matter of feel but you should never be able to remove the bit by turning the collet nut with your hand. I know that probably sounds silly but I've seen it happen.

   Steve - in Northern California

1. 
   seafowl | Aug 03, 2002 04:22am | #15

   Steve

    your point of  torque on the bit brought  up  an interesting  thought. I am new at the  router  scene and pc  company sent two  wrenches. I figured that  they ment to  tighten the  bit into the  collet  with pretty good  torque. I hope I am not over torqueing  them .  I  try to use a little mechanical  smarts  but some things  vary. Thanks   seafowl

1. 
   forestgirl | Aug 03, 2002 06:01am | #16

   If you have the PCs that don't have a collet lock, you have to use two wrenches to get the collet anywhere near tight.  I too worry about getting them too tight, but figure my hands aren't strong enough any more to pose much of a threat.  Would be interesting to hear from the StrongPersons out there if they feel a need to be careful about over-tightening.

   Just saw at DSC the other day, PC makes an offset wrench to make the whole tightening thing easier, but it's like $25!  Ouch.  I think I'll buy a straight one for $8 and bend it myself.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

1. 
   Sancho | Aug 03, 2002 08:21pm | #17

   They make a off set wrench huh.... ya know one of those would come in mighty handy... Darkworksite4: When the job is to small for everyone else, Its just about right for me"

2. 
   Sancho | Aug 03, 2002 08:23pm | #18

   Oh yea Hey FG gonna be up your way inna week with the whole Teti tribe.. better hide St Helens might go off again with the stress my tribe will put on the NW Darkworksite4: When the job is to small for everyone else, Its just about right for me"

5. 
   quatersawn | Jul 31, 2002 02:44am | #11

   I'm sure some folks out there will be tempted to slam this product, but have you ever considered the Eliminator router chuck for Porter Cable routers? It replaces the old one and uses a simple twist of a hex wrench to insert and remove a bit.  I didn't belive it could work either, but I have several of them going back 10 years now. They are fantastic. I have beat the snot out of these things, and I haven't had a bit ever move or rotate. As for the stock collets, I have never had happen what you describe, and I have several of the large PC routers. There is a seperate collet for 1/4 shank bits as well. That way you do not have to use a reducer, which can cuase slip. I have also found the Freud bits to be a bit oversized.

1. 
   Sancho | Jul 31, 2002 04:26am | #13

   I use it but you realy got to torq that thing tight or it will move on ya. Darkworksite4: When the job is to small for everyone else, Its just about right for me"

6. 
   eddiefromAustralia | Jul 31, 2002 03:59am | #12

   Hi,

   Have had this problem with a router as well. The way I got around it is to make sure that the through-cut in the collet (the cut from the outside to the inside of the collet), is aligned with the similar gap in the router collet.

   Before then, I had problems with bit moving up and down in collet at random.

   As well, there are some 6mm bits being sold as 1/4" (6.35mm)

   Cheers,

   Eddie

7. 
   eddiefromAustralia | Aug 03, 2002 01:27am | #14

   bun,

   Found this article while looking for something else (always the way, isn't it?)

   http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/ezine/qanda.cfm#1

   Experts advice on how to stop router bits slipping in the collet.  There is one of the fundamental things that I missed and (I think) the rest of the post missed - make sure you're not taking too deep a cut.

   Cheers,

   Eddie

8. 
   PlaneWood | Aug 03, 2002 09:13pm | #19

   Pull the bottom of the bit out about 1/8" before tightening.  i.e. make sure it is not touching the bottom of the collet.

   PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy
   PlaneWood