Replies

1. 
   riverr1 | Sep 04, 2002 11:47pm | #1

   I've seen some advertised that state they will work.

1. 
   krebs6 | Sep 04, 2002 11:55pm | #2

   Thanks. I'll keep an eye on the ads.

1. 
   riverr1 | Sep 05, 2002 12:04am | #3

   The most recent I've seen was either in American Woodworker or FWW. Look int the back in the classified type listings.

   Don

2. 
   ChasStanford | Sep 05, 2002 04:06am | #4

   That would be like putting a Zeiss scope on a Daisy Rough Rider BB gun.

1. 
   riverr1 | Sep 05, 2002 04:12am | #5

   It may be. Found them in the classifieds of FWW under misc.

2. 
   lwilliams | Sep 05, 2002 04:25pm | #6

   Thanks Charles--I couldn't have said it better. I'll laugh about this all day.

3. 
   krebs6 | Sep 05, 2002 07:35pm | #7

   Well! Excuuuse Me! All I can say is: "To each his own", said the old maid as she kissed the COW!

1. 
   riverr1 | Sep 05, 2002 08:09pm | #8

   I agree. I don't see much redeeming value in the comment which begs the question about why it was made?

1. 
   quatersawn | Sep 05, 2002 08:34pm | #9

   Ignorance, or arrogance. Take your pick.

1. 
   observer | Sep 05, 2002 09:32pm | #10

   or maybe a rather quick but somewhat warped wit.

2. 
   quatersawn | Sep 05, 2002 09:59pm | #11

   Unfortunatley, the individual was looking for some real feedback to a real question. Whether they thought it was worthwhile or not was not the issue. Why did they have to say anything? To amuse who? The person asking the question? I think not.  They offered no information to them, only a backhanded slam. Maybe the person posting doesn't have the type of money it takes to buy a better radial saw. Why try to make them feel bad about thier equipment? I don't get it. I made some damn good stuff with an old craftsman years ago. It's all I had.

3. 
   riverr1 | Sep 05, 2002 10:30pm | #12

   My first experience with a RAS was while working for Pacific Truss and Span in Tacoma. Mostly I was cutting 2x4's and 2x6's to various lenghts at various angles. The table for that saw was laid out left and right all over the place with the different stock dimensions. A laser would have made that job a whole heck of a lot easier. Of course this was back in the hey day of the Alaskan pipeline, and everything we were building was headed up there, so this predates the availability of lasers.

   Don

4. 
   quatersawn | Sep 05, 2002 10:40pm | #13

   Anyone know why Delta discontinued their chop saw with the built in laser? Alignment problems come to mind. I used one a couple times, and it worked perfectly.

5. 
   observer | Sep 06, 2002 07:33am | #15

   I think Larry explained it well. The only thing I would add is that I didn't see any slight to Krebs in the post. It seems to me that Chas. provided a fairly concise reply in a rather humorous fashion.

6. 
   riverr1 | Sep 06, 2002 07:47am | #16

   Sorry, I didn't see it that way. Had he gone ahead as you did and explain why he felt that way, that's one thing, but when it was left with a "What do I mean? Figure it out on your own," remark, I don't think he helped him. I think most so the humor, we just missed the merit. Hey, it's no big deal.

   I'm one of those with the Craftsman RAS. You're right, I know what the saw is and isn't capable of, and I think it's a great saw for what it does, what I need it to do, and what I paid for it. It's one of those tools where there is no in between levels of quality. They go from 5 to 7 hundred bucks up to thousands, so I'd be hard press to believe that someone would spend the small bucks expecting the big bucks preformance!

   on

7. 
   clampman2 | Sep 06, 2002 08:07am | #17

   Krebs,

   I tried a lazer on one of the chop saws and didn't like it myself. For one thing it seemed too thick. But the big thing was that it seemed like a trough of fluorescent night crawlers that were trying to hypnotise me.

   On a straight line rip saw they are indispensable for cutting off the waney edge with a minimum of waste, but in that operation you arent staring at it.

   Just my two cents worth.

   Clampman

8. 
   MarkRoderick | Sep 06, 2002 07:18pm | #18

   I've  never understood the disdain for the radial arm saw among professional woodworkers. I've owned a little 8" Ryobi for years. When I need it to make one or a series of square cuts, I use the simple mechanism of two test pieces, each about 12x12, flipping them over until there's no gap, if you know what I mean. I can then cut perfectly square pieces for a long time before I have to adjust again. With my radial arm saw I can easily cut multiple pieces of the same length, not to mention cutting accurate dados and tenons with ease.

   I don't know why the need to periodicaly adjust a radial arm saw is viewed with such horror, while the need to adjust back to 90 degrees on a table saw (see recent thread on setting table saw angles) is not. What's up with that?

   What I'd really like is a high-end radial arm saw that would (i) run quietly, (ii) have more power and therefore be less prone to climbing, and (iii) maintain a 90 degree angle for a longer time or maybe forever. The recent FWW review suggested that such a thing exists new for about $1,800, if I recall correctly.

   In all seriousness, I think Charles got it backwards. Because of the thick line they produce, I find those laser thingees quite inexact, introducing far more error than the saw itself. Nevertheless, I always enjoy Charles's post because of their dry wit.

3. 
   lwilliams | Sep 06, 2002 06:47am | #14

   Wait a minute; Charles' post had a lot of merit. I, like a lot of others, once owned a Craftsman radial arm saw (RAS). A couple people I worked for had them as well. Another shop I worked in had an industrial grade Delta RAS. None of these saws was accurate enough to do much but rough cut to length. Sure you could tinker with any of them and maybe get an accurate cut but you needed to plan on packing a lunch the day you wanted to do it. The first time the blade bound in a cut, for any reason, the settings were off and set-up started all over again.

   A laser insinuates accuracy. Charles' post merely indicated that retrofitting a laser wouldn't improve the accuracy of a saw that's difficult to set and can't hold its settings. Maybe some consider it poor taste to advise against spending money on an accessory to improve accuracy on a machine with inherent problems that make accuracy difficult or impossible. That same money put toward a decent miter saw would go a lot further to improving krebs6's shop capabilities.

   Yeah, I've also used the old heavy industrial DeWalt saws from when DeWalt was a real company rather than a front for Black and Decker. And yes, they're in a different league than a Craftsman RAS. The reality is that krebs6 owns a Craftsman and there's no way to turn it into a real industrial machine. A laser attachment on his saw will never be anything more than a gimmick.

   There comes a time on forums like this where you can do someone a favor by pointing out they're getting ready to pour money down a rat hole. I know people who are happy with their Craftsman RAS but they get that way by being realistic about the real capabilities of the saw.

   
   

   ---

   Edited 9/5/2002 11:50:43 PM ET by Larry Williams

1. 
   quatersawn | Sep 06, 2002 08:21pm | #19

   I'm sorry Larry, What was it you found so funny that you could laugh all day about it? The fact that a guy was wishing  to maybe impove his RAS capability? Or that he had a craftsman? Or that he wanted to try and improve his craftsman? Yes Charles remark was quick witted. But why not follow it up with a quality response, like "hey it's not worth the time and trouble because....." But no, just a backhanded response that obviously left the poster a bit puzzled as well, and then your laughing all day remark. It all just sounded like a big, Ha Ha, you've got a crafstman RAS. I repeat, it sounded arrogant or ignorant. It's really no big deal, but I find too many posters who don't care how their humor is viewed, and lets face it, it's hard to convey dry humor in print. 

1. 
   ChasStanford | Sep 06, 2002 11:26pm | #21

   A fresh saw kerf in the back fence is all you need to register your mark to .  I worked with an OMGA 12" RAS for a few years and it was accurate and stayed that way.  I'm sure the Craftsman could be tuned to be accurate, but inexpensive radial arm saws go out of adjustment too easily.

   Again, a fine pencil or knife mark registered to the inside edge of a fresh kerf cut will put your crosscuts dead on, assuming that the saw is dead on.

   Gadgets won't make an average tool work better.  Simple methods make great tools work great.

   Your Craftsman saw may be capable of holding its accuracy if you baby it.  However, if it ever overfeeds, or you bump the arm, etc., then I would strongly recommend checking alignment before making your next critical crosscut on expensive project stock especially if it's a fairly wide crosscut.

4. 
   RandMCapozzi | Sep 06, 2002 10:10pm | #20

   To get to your question, yes I saw a new product demonstrated early this year at a WW show. Here is the link. The major downside is it only beams the light when the blade is turning. I don't have one but looks like it would make it easier to cut on a scribed line. Check it out. Maybe this will work for you. http://www.bladepoint.com/

   --Rob

1. 
   krebs6 | Sep 07, 2002 03:54am | #22

   Thanks for the link to "Blade Point"! I must say it's fairly expensive @ $149.95. The interesting thing is that the new Craftsman RAS has it built in for no premium over the price I paid 3 years ago. It's true you have to have the saw running to activate the laser. In a chop saw that wouldn't matter, but with a RAS it may not shine on the planned cut until you were into the cut. It looks like the beam is not a fine line; a justified criticism, as mentioned by one of the responders. I must say this discourse over my question was my first foray into the chatroom & it's been very helpful. You're all a first class bunch of woodworkers!

1. 
   riverr1 | Sep 07, 2002 04:53pm | #23

   The laser in the FWW classifieds is $30. 1-800-456-4987

1. 
   krebs6 | Sep 07, 2002 09:32pm | #24

   Thanks again. I'll check it out.

2. 
   krebs6 | Sep 08, 2002 04:13am | #25

   Zounds! Foiled again! The "Laser Guide" 800# has been disconnected. Thanks anyway.

1. 
   riverr1 | Sep 08, 2002 04:24am | #26

   Sorry to hear that. I checked the number to make sure I wrote it right, and sure enough, that's it. Much better price then that $140. Maybe the magazine can give you something to go on. An address or something. Regardless of whatever happened, there's got to be one or two laying around at the office.

   Don

2. 
   krebs6 | Sep 08, 2002 04:39am | #27

   http://www.thisoldworkshop.com/bladepoint-review.htm   This is a link that has an excellant review of the Bladepoint laser saw guide($149.99). It includes photos, etc. The learning curve in this matter is becoming less steep.

3. 
   riverr1 | Sep 08, 2002 06:06pm | #28

   Interesting. You might want to look up what one costs from sears as repair parts. I don't have any idea of how it's connected or works so I'm not sure it's possible.

   There's been a lot of talk about Craftsman RAS accuracy. I had one in the shop for years that belonged to a friend. When he picked it up, I bought one. A pre-laser closeout for less then $400. Face it, it's a $400 saw, but I've never had problems with accuracy with either saw. Makes me wonder what kind of useabuse others give theirs? There's a Dewalt in a local shop that is used for nothing but a cut off saw(and seldom at that), the blade should have been replaced 2 years ago, the bench is usually covered with stuff along with mucho dust, but it still cuts straight.

   When I bought this saw, I looked at the Delta. But at over $700, height adj. a crank on the column, and absolutley nothing special, unique or different to justify the extra cash, the craftsman was the better saw. Add $1000+ to the price of these saws and you enter a whole different realm of RAS's where these saws obviously don't compete.

   My only complaint is the short arbors on the saws in this price range, which has me wondering if this laser can be used with a dado?

   Don

5. 
   TooManyTools | Sep 10, 2002 01:09am | #29

   I had the Porter Cable miter saw and loved it.  It was difficult to get adjusted to both sides of the blade (you could push a button to switch it from one side to the other) but would hold very well on one side.  It was stolen two years ago.

   I purchased the BladePoint at a woodworkers show.  It is installed on my DW CSM.  It is not as accurate as the PC was, the laser line is displaced from the actual cut line about 1/32.  With use I have been able to eyeball the difference very well.  Their site is:

   http://www.bladepoint.com