I have several pieces of furniture that are, I assume, a combination of shellac and laquer. I had tested the pieces with first alcohol, then acetone, and then a mixture of the two. The first two resulted in the surface barely being tacky but the last mixture made the finish liquid, so this is why I assume it is a mixture of shellac and laquer. That being said, I would like to repair the finish by just using the aforementioned mixture to even out the surfaces, however, there are areas of some of the pieces that are bare wood and it would be impossible to work the existing finish into these areas to sufficiently cover them. I want to use shellac alone for these areas and also to blend into the shellac/laquer areas.
Now, to my question…..I am not sure whether or not I should use dewaxed shellac or regular shellac. Would either of these be compatible with the laquer? I do not plan to topcoat the shellac with anything else.
Thanks.
Replies
Did this furniture originate in a factory? If so it doesn't have shellac,and if it is more than perhaps 5 years old, it is almost certainly just lacquer. Shellac and lacquer would not have been mixed to gether to form a top coat. It is possible that lacquer could have been applied over lacquer, but that would still give a surface of lacquer.
You can use shellac over lacquer. You do have to make sure the lacquer surfaces are clean--use TSP and water to get water soluble dirt and naphtha to remove oil based dirt.
Your testing process was/is flawed. Go to this site and you will find the process to use to determine the finish currently on your item. It is highly unlikely that it is shellac if it is a commercially made item.
http://www.hardwoodlumberandmore.com/Articles/ArticleViewPage/tabid/75/ArticleId/20/What-is-That-Finish.aspx
The way a professional finisher/restorer would deal with your problem is to first clean up the surface and then pad on a new coat of NC lacquer. You would start by padding the areas that are down to the wood. Then pad lacquer on the whole surface.
Padding is a process where you make a "rubber" or pad with with wool in the center covered with cotton and formed into a wrinkle free ball. Squirt lacquer into the pad unti it is just damp. Then in a continuous motion swoop down to the surface and stroke the full length of the surface lifting the pad off at the end. Think of a pilor practising "touch and go" landings. Continue with side by side strokes until you have coated the whole surface. By this time it should be dry and you can apply at least 2 more applications. becaise lacquer dissolves the under lying original coat of lacquer, you will end up with an almost perfect new coating.
I know the furniture to be early 20th century approximately 1920s, so how "commercial" it is is a matter of semantics. The pieces all have their original finish because the friend who gave them to me had them in his family since their creation. The piece tested had no wax and it was cleaned prior to testing which I thought would be assumed by readers when I had posted about testing it. Testing with acetone alone should give a more accurate result considering that lacquer thinner is similar, however, it contains other ingredients such as toluene, naphtha, and even the xylene which was suggested as a third step of testing. So I don't see how using lacquer thinner is more desireable knowing that it would muddle step two & three according to the following site.... http://www.hardwoodlumberandmore.com/Articles/ArticleViewPage/tabid/75/ArticleId/20/What-is-That-Finish.aspx
That being said, it is also strange that neither alcohol nor acetone alone seemed to do much to the finish. Only when combined 50/50 was there a clear effect on the finish....straight down to the wood with not much effort. If I was just removing this finish and replacing it with something else, there would be no need for my post here. I would just like to know, what can go on top of this finish assuming it is shellac & lacquer, though it may not be, and if it's not then what can work with it? I was told by someone, granted not by a professional restorer, that shellac can practically go on top of anything. Is it true?
it is lacquer
that is on there. lacquer thinner(by itself) or lacquer thinner with alcohol(or acetone with alcohol) will will loosen up most old finishes. sometimes it takes a few minutes to do it's job before it flashes off. then when you applied the mixture you more then likely applied it over the same place where you had applied the straight acetone, which had previously hhad softened it a little and presto
ron
The furniture you show is "traditional" style factory furniture from the 20's or 30's. As commercial as stuff sold by IKEA. It's not antique, just old. There is no economic benefit from retaining "original" finish on pieces such as this. The Antiques Roadshow dicta about old finishes doesn't even apply. Economic value will be enhanced if such pieces are skillfully refinished. Replacing the old, deteriorated finish will preserve the structural integrity of the furniture. The old finish is no longer adequately protecting the wood from changes in humidity so wood movement will be greater and consequently joints will loosen more quickly.
The old finish should be chemically stripped. This will better prepare the wood for refinishing and will reduce damage to the wood patina. You may discover that the natural wood is not as attractive or well matched as you would like. That's one of things often given up in factory furniture, even in the 1920s. Thus refinishing may need to encorporate some of the finishing tricks of factories which often stained wood, and then hid mismatched colors with sprayed on toner or shading.
Just expanding on one thing Steve brings up which the OP may not realize==mismatched wood. Factory furniture may use several different kinds of wood--poplar for drawer fronts, mahogany for casing, X wood for top, etc.--which may require toning and staining to become a uniformly colored finish. To test for what the piece will look like after it is stripped and cleaned, wipe down with mineral spirits. The color the wood has while wet with this will be the color you will obtain with a clear (untinted) finish like varnish. Sometimes it works out that that will be very satisfyingly fine.
cracked and pieces cracked off
Dear Howie
perhaps you can advise me of a NYC area professional restorer/ refinisher for my Art Deco table, custom made In 1980, whose lacquer/finish has cracked and pieces have chipped off? The original surface is wood that was painted, then finished. I've been advised that the whole table needs to be redone, but I am not that stupid (was quoted minimum price of $15,000.00 to do this)!
It is only places on the top , not the whole top, that need matching paint and lacquer
than
Lynn
NC lacquer finish was based on chemicals and technology developed for explosives in WWI. With the end of the war, it became the finish of choice for commercial furniture manufacaturers. It was easily sprayable, more durable than shellac and fast drying.
Alcohol and most of the ingrediants in good acetone are what are used to make lacquer thinner. Alcohol is the main component followed by a mixture of a number of other chemicals. There is no one formula for lacquer thinner. Lacquer thinners used by auto paint shops are quite a bit different than those you pick up in the local big box.
When you mixed up your alcohol and acetone you, in effect, made a lacquer thinner. The softening of the finish when you applied the mixture is an indication that the finish was/is lacquer.
Good, now that we have estabished that the finish is in all probability lacquer, on to my actual dilemma....How to fill in, as it were, the bare spots on these pieces without having to remove & replace the old finish? Lacquer? I have never worked with lacquer...is it clear? I ask because when I had successfully removed the finish, what I had scraped up looked translucent & amber in colour. Is that something that lacquer, when removed in such a fashion, would look like? Not to mention that once the finished was removed to the wood, the dark appearance of the finish was removed as well. See pictures. This and the finish not reacting with plain alcohol was the driving force behind my reasoning, albeit true or not, for the finish to be a combo.
By the way, I did not test the finish in the same spot with the different chemicals. I'm not that daft!
For your reference, the first picture is the spot where alcohol/acetone mixture was used. There's no point in showing the other spots because there's no difference there. The second shot is the entire piece, if you are curious. And the third shot shows the finish with chips in it down to the wood. Notice how the finish is quite dark whereas the wood is stained red. These chips are not the major areas to be refilled...those areas are much larger, hence the problem.
Lacquer Repair
>>>> How to fill in, as it were, the bare spots on these pieces without having to remove & replace the old finish?
Go back to my first posting. I explained how easy it is to repair lacquer finishes. If it's older finish, you will need to tint your lacquer to match what is already on the item. Lacquer darkens with age.
I absolutely cannot imagine not stripping this entirely and putting a real complete and nice finish on it. How can you possibly think you can "fill in" this patchwork of damage. Strip it. That will preserve the patina. Put a finish on it of the color and type you want.
Patinas, by very definition, occur on the surface, in other words the finish, not under it. So striping the finish/surface off would remove, not keep, any patina, my dear. But thank you for your advice.
patina is not the finish,
the patina is the surface of the wood. one can remove finish without removing the patina of the wood. once you abraid the surface of the wood, then you remove the patina. there is yor lesson for the day, grasshopper.
there are not many around that can repair that finish and esp not after you did that piece to it
ron
Restore
I have to agree with Gretchen 100 % - the finish is way beyond saving. Could be lacquer or an old varnish finish. Looks like a c.1940's mahogany chest on chest . Cherry stain with darker toned accents.
Howie I'm not understanding your post correctly. Are you saying to pad on NC lacquer or a padding lacquer ? Must be the heat - I can't comprehand what I'm reading anymore.
SA
As the other poster says also, patina IS in the wood, not the finish.When you strip the wood patina is preserved, as opposed, to sanding the finish off. Then you have removed any age patina and it is the same as new wood. That finish is TOAST. Refinish and reapply.
I will not denigrate you by calling YOU, my dear. Sorry a woman had to be the bearer of correct tidings.
Keno's
Too many people listen to the L & L Keno of Antiques Road Show ;-) A neglected finish that is shot is "finished"
Padding NC Lacquer
Howie -
Could you tell me a little bit about the process of padding on NC Lacquer. I've never tried that so it is a skill I'd like to learn more about.
Thanks for whatever you can share -
SA
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