Hi:
I just purchased a used RAS. I’m wondering if a anyone still uses them. Any recommendations for books?
Thanks.
Discussion Forum
Get It All!
UNLIMITED Membership is like taking a master class in woodworking for less than $10 a month.
Start Your Free TrialCategories
Discussion Forum
Digital Plans Library
Member exclusive! – Plans for everyone – from beginners to experts – right at your fingertips.
Highlights
-
Shape Your Skills
when you sign up for our emails
This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply. -
Shop Talk Live Podcast -
Our favorite articles and videos -
E-Learning Courses from Fine Woodworking
-
-
Replies
Mine doesn't get too much use, but there are still a few things that it's handy for if it's already in the shop -
-Quick cut-off of long boards to approximate length
-Making tenons and dados, especially on small pieces
DR
Craftsman used to put out a really good (book sized) owners manual with their RAS. Mine is 30 years old, so don't know what they're offering now. You should be able to purchase just the manual through their parts service. Also, see if you can find anyone locally with an old Sears saw that still has the manual. They sold a lot of them.
I have one -- it was my first stationary power tool (about 30 years ago). I use it all the time! I find it much easier to use than the table saw for crosscuts (especially on long pieces and gang cuts) and cuts on small stock. Also better for odd-shaped pieces that need to be cut freehand. Comes in handy for cutting crosscut dadoes on long stock that are problematic on the TS. I also use it on occasion to rough out tenons on long stock with a dado blade. Like anything else though, it needs to be set up properly to be accurate. I have mine set up at one end of my bench so the bench can be used to support long stock. I suppose if it ever dies, I'll make due with a CMS, but it's great to have around.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Thanks for the replies. Makes me feel better about the purchase.
I have an old Craftsman. I use it quite a bit. As someone else pointed out, it is good for cross-cutting, or cutting rough boards to approximate length. I also use mine for shelf dados, and cutting tenons. I would never, ever rip anything with it, especially something narrow. Unlike the SCMS, the underside of the board is always fully supported, which means less terar off and chipping, assuming that the kerf in the table is not too wide.
On the negative side, they produce a lot of dust, which is difficult to collect, especially when using a dadoset.
Overall, I do like mine a lot.
The trend of the responses seems to relegate the RAS to "rough" work. I have used mine for 35 years and almost extensively for finish cross-cutting parts for furniture and cabinet face frames. When I have a lot of tenons to cut I use the RAS with a dado. As mentioned, dust is an issue but I have a collection hood with 5" hose and a separate smaller hose that connects to the dust nozzle on the blade guard and very little dust escapes. I think many people relegate the RAS to rough cuts because most of the contractor grade RAS are difficult to keep in alignment. Use a good negative-hook blade and keep it aligned the RAS can be one of the most useful tools in the shop. If you don't have a maintenance manual, I would urge you to locate one and check the saw's alignment.
I struggled with my 30 year old craftsman radial saw for years. They are very fussy to adjust and set-up right. One good bump on the table and you have to check alignment. My saw is a 10 inch, but light duty, and it finally dawned on me that its construction is simply not rigid enough to do quality work, especially on thicker lumber.I would have gotten rid of it years ago, but for one thing it does better than any other machine. In my furniture repair business I encounter the need to replicate short sections of antique moldings. I have a Sears molding head which uses one high speed steel cutter. Using multiple cutters or re-grinding existing cutters will allow me to match any molding profile at a very reasonable price. Hopefully my saw will last as long as I do.
I have a very large old Delta that I use all the time due to it will crosscut or Rip up to 24", I only use negitive hook blades to reduce/almost eliminate the climb factor that really will show up on thicker wood. I use it alot to cut bowl blanks & boards up to 6" thick in one pass.
dadoing bookshelves is the best tool you can get.
The one I'm buying also crosscuts 24". So it may have more utility as your does.
You can put the same molding head on a tablesaw and the set up would be quite a bit safer, easier to fine tune, and just as accurate. I use a molding head on a tablesaw with shop ground blades regularly and I love the flexibility.I've only used the three blade version of their molding head, didn't know that Sear's ever made a single cutter version until just recently. I'd be interested in trying one since it would be much easier to make custom knives. John White
Shop Manager, Fine Woodworking Magazine.
The RAs I'm getting also has a carriage for a router. Would you consider using an overhead, radial router as dangerous as an RAS?
Hi John,Thanks for the reply. I'm sure that a table saw does offer the advantages that you state. I guess it boils down to individual preference. When reproducing custom moldings using either a table or radial saw there are precautions which are mandatory. Feather boards MUST be used to keep the stock pressed tightly against the fence, feather boards also provide some protection against kickback. All saw adjustments must be securely locked before use.Often, only short pieces of molding are necessary, however,I never make any molding shorter that two feet, this ensures that my hands remain well away from the molding head. Some molding cross sections are so small that there would be no safe way to mill the profile. In this case I use larger stock and when finished rip the molding from the larger piece.I know that many readers will already know the precautions I listed, but I would ask those with less experience to approach the use of a molding head with great care. Brad
All I'd add to what you said is that a featherboard attached to the fence to keep the stock on the table is a good idea too.My goal is for my work to outlast me. Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
If you can't find any books locally, send me an email (I got it fixed). I think I may have one or two left, and I would be glad to send them to you gratis.
I hope you like to tinker with your tools, since you will be doing a lot of that to keep it lined up properly.
********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
I use mine all the time. The newer ones and all the 10" models are no good. The old Dewalts and Black and Deckers (1950 to '70), the 12" and larger Delta turret style saws and The Origional Saw Co. are great options. These saws can be relied apon to cut accurately and retain their adjustments. I use mine for dados and tennons as well. The set up and dialing in of a RAS is a major PITA! Expect to spend half a day if all goes well. If you have a old saw it will take longer because of rust and old grease. There is a very good book on setting one up.
Mike
Had an old sears since the 1960's, they were the chop saw of the era in popularity. We redid the house and raised three kids(sand boxes, toys, bookcases and scroll top raised panel cafe doors etc.) with this saw a 7 1/4, a router, a jig saw and hand tools.
You need the sears book-priceless.
Two high quality cross cut/ combo blades, negative rake a must and get a pair of stiffeners.
A 24/26 tooth rip to use over 3/8 to 5/4 and no ripping of thicker goods . Hold downs from above and to fence are a must.
A non carbide hollow ground will do beautiful miters after you get proficient and it can be an 8" to save some bucks.
Install a premium work surface and solid true fence(no cheapo ply sheathing here as all your work depends on it) It's a pain but very worth the effort.
CLEAN THE ENTIRE SAW, get a quality rafter square so an old timer can show you how to bench mark the set up to a true cut. It's not much different than setting the caster, camber and pitch of your cars front wheels. I can be done in less than 20 min. and must be checked after any kick back or you will be cuttung into never never land not on the line that you need.
SAFETY is the last of my blather. This is one of the most dangerous tools ever made (except perhaps for the swing saw--it's grandfather). You must be aware of what you are doing at all times-if it feels shaky --DON'T DO IT.
Late one evening(read tired and looking to get to dinner) I needed to size a 1/2" ply back for some shop box from an old gray painted piece of leftover. I pulled my very fine 80+ tooth triple chip blade and stiffeners and hung an old 8" steel ply blade and started to cut. The splitter (reeving) wheel was not hitting the cut due to the difference in set up alignment from the 80 tooth plus the stiffeners along the arbor shaft. There was some wobble room on the wheel so I pushed it with my index finger AND LAID THE FLAT OF MY THUMB IN THE BLADE. The finger prints DO grow back . This was after 7+ years of FAMILIARITY with this charmer--no respect.
It will do a lot for you but be careful and enjoy. Pat
Thanks, Pat. I appreciate all your comments. Tell why you find an RAS so dangerous. Is the chance of kickback greater than on a TS? Or is it the the act of pulling the blade towards you? I just want to know what to watch out for.Eric
Hi Bake/ALL,
I have owned and used a 10" Sears/Craftsman RAS for over 30 years, and it too was the first stationary power tool I purchased. IMHO I have found that in order to get the greatest accuracy from this tool, you must follow the setup instructions step by step as described in the owners manual. Each successive step depends on the accuracy of the previous step. Every once in a while, I will check alignment again.
Once, I noticed that my cuts were no longer perfectly square to the face of the board. After rechecking the owners manual, I found the problem to be the rollers that engage the arm were loose. Tightened them up, and back in business. You definitely need the owners manual!
I use mine for both rough cuts and finish cuts, dadoing, making tenons, etc. The danger part, to me, is that I'm pulling the blade through the stock towards me, as opposed to pushing the stock into the blade as with a TS. That blade spinning at +100 MPH can indeed be intimidating, to say the least and I'm always concerned with the blade lurching towards me, out of control!
To help overcome this, I have modified my fence to provide a variety of holddowns to secure the stock. I also made the replacement table using a torsion box design for flattness/rigidity, with a sacrificial top. This took some tinkering, but has been well worth the effort.
As mentioned in a previous post, there are many times that a RAS will do the job of another tool much more safely and accurately. Also, with a good sharp blade and a thin kerf in the sacrificial top, I almost completely eliminate tearout on both sides of the board!
As far as the tool being finnicky and subject to misalignment from being accidentally whacked, I suspect this is more of a user issue than a tool issue as whacking any tool will likely cause some amount of alignment problem. Being an old timer, I always check alignment with my trusty framing square, :) :) :)
Have fun with your new RAS, but as with any tool, NEVER use this tool when you are either tired or in a hurry.
Ciao for now,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
Edited 2/6/2006 10:32 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
To answer your questions -1/2/3
1/3-Is the radial saw more dangerous than the table saw? This answer could produce a hundred responses. I say yes. You have a 10" blade moving at 3450 on a sliding carriage 24" long , coming at you and your hands (in a cross cut) that are holding the stock tight to the table and the fence. It is not just the 1/4" or so above the height of the stock as with the TS, in a fixed position, it is 40 to 50% of that 10" blade. You mentally have to know where the blade is, where your hand is, where it is going to, how fast or slow will you get it there(considering the depth-the stock-the angle and your tactile sense of how the cut is going) factoring in grain, knots and other surprises. The table saw has many less variables. A simple RAS cross cut of moderate stock should never create a great risk but that's not the only task available in that configuration.
2-The rip cut is similar to the TS in that the blade is fixed in position but the RAS is not a stable enough platform(sheet metal case, wood top, a hopefully true wood fence pressing against the top through the effort of two floating bolts that you hand tightened(some time ago?), where as the TS is a cast steel top and a locked down fence. A seriously stable platform. The comparison of the floating plastic reeving wheel and the TS steel splitter bolted to the saw table needs no discussion to identify that it is a major contribution to kick back on the RAS.
I once tried to rip the sides of a 2 1/2" salvaged stick of old marine red oak to clean it up. It kicked enough that the 8' stick sailed past me into the driveway and had maintained enough elevation to take out the grill and radiator of Her(SHMBO) new Merc station wagon. Three lessons learned here, first thank goodness I was taught to never stand in line with a board when ripping, second a RAS shouldn't rip over 1" or 5/4 if super clean in set up, third a radiator from the junk yard is only 25% of the price what the dealer wants for the chrome plastic grill.
I hope that I helped. All the best. Pat
Regarding danger, used properly, I think a RAS is actually *safer* than a TS - for cross cutting. Any kickback on a RAS will be away from you and into the fence. Not so with a TS. Both sides of the cut are supported by the fence on a RAS. Not so with a TS, unless you are using a sled. I think you can get a safer grip on the workpiece on a RAS, since you are holding the piece firmly against a stationary fence instead of a sliding miter guage. On the RAS, the hand holding the piece stays put instead of moving towards the blade with the wood as it would on a TS. I've never had the saw unexpectedly "jump" forward in the cut -- can't happen. The work piece is there to slow it down. (Worst case, the saw pulls forward into the workpiece and stalls.) Even if it does move faster than you want, your hand is firmly on the saw grip and safely away from the blade, and the saw can't can't move any farther than the limit of the arm.
Now for ripping. Heck, that's why they INVENTED the TS! No comparison. TS every time. When ripping, a RAS is pretty much an electric cannon just waiting to go off. And the only time I ever had a real scare with a RAS is when I was using a molding head in a ripping configuration. I never thought wood could explode! It can. Won't happen again, though.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Just to put in another 2 cents worth on the danger of the radial arm saws, I thought I'd relate an incident that happened in a local home center here about 10 years ago. Sorry I don't know enough details to determine how the accident occured.One of the customers wanted a piece of lumber cut to size. The store clerk, a high school or college aged kid that was fairly new on the job, took the piece to the back where the RAS (12" Delta, IIRC) was. The next person to see the clerk was (fortunately) a registered nurse that had stopped in the store to pick something up. At first she noticed that he seemed to be wandering around sort of dazed. Then she realized that a significant portion of one of his arms was missing.If there's any freeplay in the vertical adjustment of the column, it's possible for the blade to ride up over the lumber if you're making a shallow cut and propel itself toward you with unbelievable force.
Thanks for all your comments. What if the sa is set to move away from the operator? Would that make it safer?
I have a friend that always uses his RAS in that mode -- by pushing it back into the work instead of pulling it toward the front. He does that because his did ride up over the work once and gave him quite a scare. However, that's not how the saw was designed to work. Doing that really limits the size of lumber that you can process & may introduce some safety issues of its own.There are thousands of RASs out there that get used all the time. Used safely. I use mine more than any other tool in the shop. Partially because it was the only major tool I had for about 20 years & I am quite used to it, but also partially because for some operations it is the easiest tool to set up for the job. If kept in good adjustment & repair; used properly, (i.e., don't have a hand or arm sitting in the path of the blade, make sure the fence is adequate to restrain the work, use clamps if you can't hold it with your hand safely, etc.); and used for those jobs for which it is really suited (avoid ripping, as has already been pointed out!), it can be a useful tool.
Hi Bakesale,
I'm currently in the process of setting up my newish Craftsman (Ryobi) saw and can offer you a lead on the RAS "bible". It's called "Fine tuning Your Radial Arm Saw" by Jon Eakes.
It used to be published by Lee Valley but they dropped it from their catalogue several years ago. I found an on-line version at http://www.wired-2-shop.com/joneakes/ProductDetail.asp?ProdID=3&nPrdImageID=&CatID=3.
Although the recommendations to follow the set-up section in an owners manual will give you acceptable results, what Jon Eakes proposes is dynamic testing where instead of trusting a framing square (test IT first!) you finish dialing in your RAS by dynamic testing in wood. Another principle he touts is adjusting to the end of "slop". Any machine with so many axes of movement will have some slop - if you consistently push your column arm, yoke or bevel axis in the same direction before clamping, you will be returning to the precise point of your adjustments. Too long to get into in more detail here but the book is clear and well written.
Using his technques, I have acheived very good accuracy with my saw and as long as you resist the temptation to use your tabletop as a workbench you normally do not need to do a lot of fussing to keep it shipshape. I've cut out octagon frames where if you are not cutting EXACTLY 22 1/2 degree angles, the cumulative error shows up right away.
I find I like the saw in my shop because it can go against a wall for most of it's operation and save space. I also do a lot of one-of-a-kind projects which it excels at as you can switch operations so readily.
Hope this helps.
D@mn! I need to get a job where I can stay more current on these topics <late post icon goes here>. I have an early 70's Dewalt, accessories, etc. I never quite seemed to get it aligned to an RCH, even following the manual, but was always able to get done whatever I needed to. Then, I found the title "How to Master the Radial Saw" by Mr Sawdust (Wally Kunkel 4/20/1921 to 4/6/1997). This book is a self-published book by his family.
http://www.mrsawdust.com/
I think it's worth the $30, and he pretty well lays out how to get a RAS properly aligned, among many other topics--for instance, making a really good table for the RAS. Check the website.
HTH -- I have no relationship other than satisfied customer to these folks.
Mine was quite good at scaring and frustrating me. I bought mine while still working as a carpenter, and for that task it had some uses. In a cabinetmaker setting, I'd say it is only useful for rough cutting pieces to size. If left set up for right angle work, it could be useful accurate cross cuts on long stock. Ripping with a RAS is just plain foolish, I know I tried it.
Rob Millard
I have a slightly different view.
For cross-cutting, the RAS is probaly safer than a TS. The reason is, one hand is pulling the saw yoke (and nowhere near the blade), the other is pinching the work against the fence. As long as the fence is intact that hand will not be pulled into the blade. This is particularly true because the blade stays on a path, and both hands can be positioned away from that path before beginning the cut.
The one time I had a close call was when I was cutting miters on some fairly hard maple. The fence was a bit cut up, and a piece of it broke off with the miter cut. This left a gap that permitted the work to kick back- and nearly took my hand with it. I took away two lessons- 1) make sure the fence is intact, and 2) don't grip the work too tightly- if you need to hold it that dear, use a stop and a clamp.
As for ripping, it's just more dangerous on a RAS. With a TS, you can set the blade to be just proud of the work, meaning that there is less exposure to your hands. Also, I find it easier to position myself to be off center using a TS, meaning that I am out of range of a kick back, and using a push stick seems easier to me as well. Having said that, I've used board buddies to rip on my RAS, and I've not had a kick back. Nevertheless,I prefer the TS for ripping.
The RAS is particularly well suited to cross cutting with a stop, and for cutting dados and tenons. For tenons, it's pretty easy to set up the cut with a stop and process a bunch quickly and accurately.
Just my 2p,Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
"God created the heavens and the earth in 6 days using a Radial Arm saw.
If He'd used a tablesaw, He would've been done in 5, and the coastlines would be straighter." - papanicicus 15:25
I had an older Dewalt, fine tuned it to work very well, but eventually sold it because it took up a lot of valuable space in my small shop. I'd never dream of using it instead of a tablesaw, but it is a great partner to one. I really missed it when I was installing some laminate flooring in my home - too wide for my chop saw.... too afraid of SWMBO to buy a slider....
The older I get, the better I was....
I bought an old dewalt in 1982 and traded it for a dewalt 12" ras.
I believe the ras has a worse reputation than it deserves. I bought a book soon after buying my saw (an absolute must) and it really opened my eyes to how versatile these machines are. As others have stated ripping is one of it's worse suits but can be done safely. Most ripping acccidents I've heard of involve ripping from the wrong direction and getting pulled into the blade. One operation I recall from the book involved turning the saw arbor so that it pointed straight down and mounting a molding head. A fence slotted for the M/H concealed all but the cutting portion.
Setting the saw is not too bad, I removed the blade, pointed the arbor down and used a guage block to level the table. Then with the saw set at 90 I sguared the fence to the saws travel.
I'd leave my saw set at 90 if at all possible and use a jig to position the stock at the desired angle for miter cuts.
I do not currently own a ras but if I had more room I would
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled