Quick Survey – who uses biscuits in t…
Will_O'Brien_2 | Posted in General Discussion on
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I would like to take a quick survey of who does and who does not use biscuits when glueing up their projects. I am just as interested in who does not use biscuits so if you don’t use them please respond as well. If you don’t mind including when you think they are most appropriate and when you think are over-used that would be interesting to me as well.
Thanks,
Will
Replies
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I use the heck out of biscuits. Kinda a belt and suspenders approach. for example in my sub flooring evan though there is a spline, I add a couple of biscuits between the joists. That way I can jump up and down on it and it doesn't deflect one nano meter.
*Will I never use them. I build mostly furniture and have never came across a joint that I couldn't find another method. I was looking at getting one for Xmas but in the end spent the money on other shop tools.Scott
*NOPE!
*Not I.Dano
*I do most of the time. I use alot of oak in my furniture and toys, and it seem to move if I don't. Not only for movement, but it helps me keep the lamination true. Len's Custom Woodworking
*Only when gluing up large panels. FB
*Down here we make our kitchen cabinets in what you guys refer to as the European style from Melamine faced board. I use biscuits to locate the base & sides of each unit prior to fastening with screws, its just quicker & stronger than dowels in my opinion.However rarely use them in furniture construction unless there is no better way, & then generally to register two pieces when I run out of hands (rather than as a reinforcement).Don
*Oh boy, this one will rankle the purists out there. I expect before this thread is done we will have more than a few posts blaming biscuit joinery for declining church attendance, poor voter turnout, and the decline of SAT scores.Yes, I use biscuits. I also got a polio shot, use interstate highways, watch a color television and take advantage of many other advances of the last 50 years – without apology.Next . . . . .
*Nope, nada.Jim
*Paul,Poor church turnout was probably caused by substituting biscuits for communion wafers :-)Don
*Yep, here's a vote in favor of biscuits.I use them occaisionally for gluing up large panels (edge-glued tabletops and the like), also doubled-up (using 2 per joint) in leg-apron joints in small end tables that I wholesale. It is a quick, easy, reliable method joinery for many applications.I also cut mortises & tenons, hand-cut dovetails on casework, and enjoy a lot of the standard, well-known wood-to-wood joints that traditional work calls for.For me it is a question of keeping in mind what sort of piece I'm building, where it is going to end up, and frankly, how much I'm getting paid. I have a big thing about not giving people more than they paid for. That is not the same as ripping folks off by using inferior methods, simply making sure that people get what they pay for (with no provision, ever, for doing shoddy work no matter how low the price). If anybody cares, I'd be happy to explain what the heck I'm talking about.Best,Chris GleasonGleason Tableworkswww.interestingfurniture.com
*no - but I have no idealogical opposition to them -
*Nobody really cares much anymore I think.If you like 'em, use 'em.
*I use them. It depends on what Im working on,wainscotting, molding glueing up panels,it all depends. To make the purist cringe I have used them w/pocket holes to attach legs to aprons on tables I have made for a incredibly strong joint. I have used them for cabinent doors. I mean its up to your imagination
*Had I not bought a cheezy biscuit cutter, I might. Right now, I prefer dowels.I guess you can vote me 25% yes, 75% no.
*Yes. If my lamello machine broke today, I'd go buy another tomorrow.
*I use biscuits as insurance and to aid alignment in panel glue ups. I also use them for many plywood joints in carcases and tool/jig work. Right now I'm throwing together a 1/2" plywood base, electrics box, and cover for my wet grinder. A few dozen #10 biscuits will hold everything together quickly and accurately.
*Biscuits are on my list of fastners--right below duct tape.
*CStanford,Are you kidding? I look forward to finding a post from you. You seem to wield Occam's razor quite well. :)Scott Murray
*I use them unless i have a good reason not to. i mostly use them to help keep things lined up and for plywood cabinets. you can't beat a biscuit joiner for speed and accuracy, and i'm not really into antique reproductions so why not.
*I had a Medieval history professor who gave had the world's best lecture on Occam's Razor that you ever heard. Just incredible. I wish that I had recorded it.One should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything.
*I don't use them, but I think the technology makes sense. Sure beats particle board, fiberboard and a few of the other modern milestones in the evolution of our craft.
*I don't use them in my furniture of other finished projects. I do use them for rapid prototyping, jig building and other down-and-dirty, slap 'em out projects that I don't intend to last (for this it's been a wonderful tool).
*I just use them when gluing up panels, or for jig making. I think it just makes me feel better about keeping everything lined up the way I intended.Have fun-Rocky
*No biscuits or cookies, though I do use splines occasionally for purposes of alignment.Can't see the use in spending money on a special tool and factory-made bisquits when splines are free.
*Certainly don't use them for panels myself.http://www.mafell.com/produkte/prod_bohren_fr.htmIf I'm not mistaken the buscuit jointer was invented in the fifties because dowels were so difficult. I believe the dowel is stronger than the biscuit. Recall a mention in that test about dowels versus biscuits. Check out the Mafell dowel driller. Pretty interesting idea.
*yes I use gobs of them. I use them in case work . in my one man cabinet shop.
*I would make the best piece possible given the time, equipment,and materials. Biscuits are accessories, although helpful, not the identity of the whole piece. This probably doesn't make much sense either. I do use em in certain situation.
*I use them alot in sheet good case work. Almost never use dowels. Per an FWW article in the last few years they (MIT?) tested stile to rail joints and they finished in this order M&T, Loose Tenon, Biscuits and at a distant 4th were dowels.Just to push the envelope I once built a 6' high gate w/ (2) 4' leaves. The frame work is flatwise (kiln dried)RW 2x6 with a diagonal (in compression of course) and all joints were made w/ (4) #20's and PL Poly. The frame was faced with screwed el cheapo dog-eared cedar from the big orange box. 5 years later no sag, I mean really none because I used a regular dead bolt lock with the standard strike plate!What I want to know is how many of the biscuit user's also use the Lamello metered glue bottle?
*Yes, I use them and keeping in mind their limitations as well as their strengths they are a wonderful joinery method. In general I use them for panels and face frames. In the case of the face frame why use a mortise and tenon? The face frame is supported by the case perfectly well and needs to "stick together" only in a minimal fashion structurally speaking. If someone wants to M+T everything that is a personal choice. But structurally it is of no consequence.There was a FWW article a few years back when one of the staffers built doors for his home using doubled or quadrupuled biscuit joints. There was a bit of a hubbub about it from some purists.Might be interesting to hear how those doors are holding up! Me, I'm no purist. I care about design and durability. How I get there is a different matter.Tom
*I use biscuits as a way to line up edges as well as add some strength. There are few easier way to get two edges to stay flush than with the biscuits. Also, not being perfect, I use them on face frames. I like to mark the positions of the biscuits and then cut the slots in the carcase of the cabinet. Then I change the hieght of the cutter relative to the "fence". By making this dim. bigger, the face frame over hangs the case by 1/32". The using a bottom bearing flush trim bit in the router, voila! a perfect fit or the face frame members to the outside of the case. I guess this means that I build the carcase and then build the frame on it. This may not be how Norm does it but it works like a charm! Jay P.London,On,Ca.
*This has been a VERY interesting thread -- Thanks all that participated.Please continue on.Will
*I do all the framing for a stained glass shop. I don't like to see a panel set in from one side with retainer strips, so i enclose it in glue-up. I used to glue up the miter joints, then drop the corners into a V-shaped jig over the tablesaw blade to cut a kerf into which to insert a spline. This was tricky with larger pieces in which i put two splines across the joint.Now i use two biscuits at each corner instead. It elimiates the danger the table saw presented and i can finish sanding the frame in short order instead of waiting for two glue-ups for both the miters and the splines.If it didn't work, i would soon hear about it. However, on larger peices of 6 sq. feet or so, i still use a lap joint with pins.
*I use 'em on panels and such. Quick, simple, and plenty strong. I don't really look at them so much as joinery, but more of an alignment aid for glueup.
*I didn't buy a biscuiter for many years having decided that it was an unnecessary toolthat I could not afford anyway. A year and a half ago I was making some kitchencabinets and needed to fix the face frames to the carcasses and the only obvious waywas with a biscuiter. So I bought one (I could easily afford it nowadays) and it madethe job very easy. Now I can't understand why I didn't buy one years ago. I don't use ita lot but when I do it's a great asset and easy to use. Mostly for edge joining - its muchquicker than grooving both pieces and then making a tongue.I'd be interested to know how others glue their biscuits. I fill all the slots with glue andthen spread glue on the biscuits as I'm afraid of starving the joints. It takes a little whileand I wonder if its really necessary, should I just glue the biscuits? I use white pva forinternal work and Cascamite for external use (white powder mixed with water - notsure if you have it in USA) although I sometimes use polyurethane glue which Iconsider to be stronger and I reckon that although it's not water based to swell thebiscuits, the foaming will fill the slots.Malcolm
*Malcolm,I use yellow glue in the slots and spritz the biscuits with water. This supposedly will keep the bisquit from sucking all the water out of the glue and starving the joint. For outdoor or oily wood I use poly in the slots and spritz the biscuits. Since poly reacts with water I always spritz one edge and glue the other on everything. If I'm doing a lot of glueing with poly, say laminating, my little touch-up gun makes a great 'spritzer'.
*I use them wherever probable. Not possible, probable.
*I use biscuits too. A bit more information to follow than my last post. Once in a while I use them for panel glue ups, more often with creepy PVA than any other time where mostly I go for a plain edge joint, often rubbed with Scotch glue. Handy for the corner joints of man made board boxes. I'll also use them to join shelves, bottoms and tops to sides in solid timber construction. Here I space them as close together as possible. They seem to work fine.I probably appreciate the convenience and speed of the biscuit jointer for these two jobs most,* Lining up parts, e.g., a fat pair of legs to their thinner end panel in carcase construction, or lining up lippings, rear upstands to tops and wide frontal drops on shelves, etc..* Biscuits are a boon for lining up the parts of dry assembled built-in furniture where the piece(s) are built in the workshop, delivered broken down, and reassembled with the biscuits and screws prior to attaching to the walls, ceiling, floor.Slainte, RJ
*JohnThanks for your reply - I like your idea of spritzing the biscuits. I'm not quite surewhat you mean by poly reacting with water ( how does it react? in a positive waypresumably).Anyway I shall give it a try. I also thought I would do some test runs withvarious glues and methods and then saw them open to see what happened to thebiscuits.Malcolm
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