god, I’m after making a major beginners mistake – I think. Just made a pair of gates from some fine QS cedar I found. I used polyurethane glue for the lap joints and of course as the glue cured it expanded and foamed out of the joints.
In my infinite wisdom I though it best to leave the foam as it was because it appeared impossible to remove cleanly until cured. When I did try to scrape it off it seemed to have soaked deeply into the wood and even a furious sanding has not removed it.
The questions are:
1. Is there anything more clever I can do to with the glue stain
2. Is there any particular finish I could use that might be sympathetic to my problem
3. What should I have done during the glue up to avoid this situation
and finally, and a little off the problem:
4. Is there a filler that might be recommended for cedar. Would it show through a finish?
Any other relevant advice would also be welcome
Thanks all,
Eoin
Replies
"What should I have done during the glue up to avoid this situation" IMHO, used a different glue. Titebond III would have sufficed, it is very weather resistant, and more "civilized" in its behavior than a poly glue such as Gorilla Glue. That's just my take, I'm sure some will disagree, but I prefer to use an alternative if at all possible, to the poly glue.
As a side note: If you have any dogs, be very careful to keep the poly glue well out of reach. Dogs have been know to eat the stuff, and it kills.
What forestgirl said or West Systems Epoxy, which is what I use for fully exposed joints. Never had one fail with TB III, but I just trust the Epoxy more.
For an outdoor application like a gate I use Sikkens SRD, I don't know how it would look with the glue stain. I would make up some tesy board with glue stains and try a couple of finishes, maybe you will find one that hides the glue well. I seem to remember that Poly glue darkens on exposure to UV, but I could be wrong
As far as a filler, what finish did you have in mind. I've made reliable fillers using wood dust and epoxy, but you have to test it under your finish to get the color right.
Polyurethane glues have their place, unfortunatly, your application ain't that place.
Yeah, poly glue is messy and difficult to use . Not a good choice. A good water resistant glue like Tightbond III would have been better. Not sure if you can get that brand there in Ireland, but you could probably find something equivalent. If not then epoxy would have even been better than than the poly.
Unfortunately wood varies in color drastically even within the same species and I can't think of any company that makes wood filler for Cedar.In your situation the best bet is to purchase a No. of wood fillers that are close in color and experiment with mixing to match or like one poster suggested , make your own from saw dust and glue.
What you could have done to avoid the glue stains or having to clean the excess glue, would be to have applied masking or painters tape just on the area where the glue squeezes out. This way all you have to do is pull the tape off after it finishes expanding. You might try carefully filing off the excess glue with a wood rasp or mill file and then sanding.
Edited 8/19/2009 12:57 am ET by brownman
Edited 8/19/2009 12:58 am ET by brownman
I actually have a drum of of tite-bond 3 in the shop and I use it all the time. My research told me that the poly would be better as it guaranteed a 100% water tight seal. I'll put it down to experience and know better next time.I'm not keen to work with it again as its a nightmare. Messy, hard to apply and not much open time before if begins to foam. But, where exactly is it useful. Under what circumstances would it be the best product?I'd have to agree with the tape. While sweating bullets during the sanding exercise I was inspired with a similar idea. Thats a lot of extra work for a glue-up though. Again a case for avoiding the poly.I'm not too bothered with the filler. Fortunately the joints are good an tight. The soft cedar has taken a few dings but I can put these down to character.I hope to be able to source Sikkens products here as well so thanks for thank tip.Thanks for the help so far lads and lassiesEoin
Not sure if you had seen the latest tests conducted comparing the various glues on the market , but the Tightbond three actually out performed both the poly and epoxy , which was surprising to probably most of us. Another thing about the poly glue also is that it doesn't store well. The shelf life , in my experience, isn't very long as it tends to harden in the container. If you are storing any, you want to be sure you squeeze the container until all excess air is removed. I can't think of an application where I'd use the poly over Tighbond III as far as any wood applications are concerned.
I recently resurfaced a friends cabinet face frames with some 1/4" Western Red Cedar that I milled up and it turned out very nice. He was very pleased with the look, as he has a rustic western theme in his home decoration.I made doors to match from the same lumber and trimmed them with a hand plane for a nice even inset fit. Once fit with black hammered hardware they were fit for a kings den.
Both Titebond III and most polyurethane adhesives meet the ANSI Type 1 tests for a totally "waterproof" adhesive. In other words, you can use the TBIII for any applications where the glueline will be subject to water or boiling water.Howie.........
Here is a "trick" you might try. Take your router and a SMALL "v" groove bit and go along each glue joint.
Working through the finishing as we speak so its a bit late for the V groove idea. I like it though and it would have looked well with the style of gate.The Sikkens is going on well. While it was cheaper than most other products in the shop the dealer told me how well it was regarded by professionals. Even though sanding between coats was not recommended I've found it a help so far. A very light rub worked easily and well.Eoin
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