Planers..13″- 15″- 20″.. Questions?
Doing a possible up-grade after all these years and in the market for a new planer.. I think? I’ve used a Delta 13″ 22-580 and quite happy with the smooth results it gives. Mounted to a heavy wooden base, it’s vibration free and mobile. Motor is still humming along. Here’s the dilemma..
I buy stock S1-S2 or rough. Jointer capability to handle 16″ even thought I have never acquired any over 12″ personally in 35 years. The Delta 13″ has handled that well. The lengths are what prompts considering cast iron tables that are longer. The Delta has a 35″ bed. Longer stock (6′-8′ is common even pre-cutting to project size) gets handled with a 13″ x 48″ piece of melamine coated MDF that can be anchored over the existing 35″ planer bed. It gives up 3/4″ in height which is not a concern. Flip top stands provide the additional on the 6′-8′ pieces.
But…. I would like to have longer cast iron beds. But other than going to a commercial planer, the largest 15″ is around 48″ and 20″ floor model is only around 55″. So just how much have I gained in both width and length. Again.. I don’t anticipate a sudden increase in over 12″ stock and I don’t normally run already glued panels through as a hand plane is the go to there for me!
I suppose my question is should I even bother to replace as I have always gotten it done with a 13″? I can put 15″ to my shop door for $850. 20″ can arrive for $1220 which is not that much more.. but again the question is why would I want it to arrive period with the scenario I have.
Anybody else that has already up-graded for whatever reason.. any in-sight as to why I should or shouldn’t up-grade would be appreciated. Space is not a factor in my case.. the money is not a problem.. I’m just not sure if an up-grade is really that beneficial to me just because I can?
Sarge.. jt
Replies
Sarge,
I don't think you'd be gaining any tangible advantage in the few inches of extra length. That said, I can't imagine not wanting the widest capacity you can get. My planer is 20" (SCMI) and while it usually works a lot narrower material, it's REALLY nice to be able to send a wide slab through. It's not unusual for me to get French Oak slabs or Wenge or Sapele that is 18-20" wide. So, it all depends on the type of work you're doing. maybe having a wide planer would open up some new directions, eh?
David Ring
http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e
Sarge, I'm a proponent of "If it's not broke, don't fix it." Having said that, I have a 15" that has served me well for several years, without really needing to go wider. I've now purchased a Woodmaster 18" molder/planer, and have already used the extra capacity. It's not something I'll need all the time, but now that I have it, I'm sure I'll find other projects that I'll run through the extra width.
I've been using a 15-inch PM for about nine years and have also appreciated the long infeed and outfeed surfaces. Plus, sometimes you may want to run the workpiece through at an angle to minimize tearout or balance the wear on the knives. The stability of the cabinet is something to appreciate when surfacing a lot of rough lumber, too, as is the ability to move it around when you need the extra working room for long pieces. Also, I make a lot of use of the top-mounted rollers when I have several boards that need surfacing to the same dimension and need to be run through a bunch of times. Go for a floor model!
Dear Sarge,
Like yourself, I surface a lot of rough lumber, up to 16' lengths. For the past 6 years I have used a Makita 12" planer. I work commercially so I tend to push my tools.
My experiences are as follows:
The Good:
1) The Makita leaves a beautiful finish.
2) Blades are cheap and easy to replace.
3) Dead-on reliable. Oak, Ipe, Maple, I run it all with no problems.
4) I have run that thing for eight hours at a clip with only lunch breaks & blade changes.
The Not So Good:
1) Slow feed rate.
2) Small (1/16" max on facing) bite.
3) On deep cuts, the blades wear rapidly
The Bottom Line:
1) I am overtaxing the machine. It was never intended for that type of work.
2) Bed length is meaningless to me. I use roller stands for long pieces.
3) The Euro J/P Combos have very short beds and no one seems to complain.
4) I am in the same boat. I am currently deciding upon either:
A. The new Grizzly Jointer/Planer Combo, with spiral head... or more likely:
B. The Yorkcraft 20" planer with the "Byrd" cutterhead.
The spiral heads are more $, but I have no interest in setting knives and rough lumber tends to be a little gritty and I don't want to have to change out entire blades for a couple of nicks. I will probably use the Makita as a "finish" planer after that.
Best,
John
I've owned a Makita 2040 for many years and love it. I only use it about an hour a week but I may have had it 20 years. I did have to replace the rollers as the rubber ones oxidized. I had the rollers with urethane. Crosscut Lumber in Portland used to have one as their planer and they liked it. It gives very smooth cuts with little or no snipe if you operate it correctly.
Dave
Morning David..
A lot of trim carpenters use the Makita in the Atlanta area. IMO.. I think it gives the smoothest cut of the portable planers and wouldn't hesitate to purchase one if I were in the market for a portable.
Regards...
Sarge.. jt
I would truly love to have a 15" or better planer to do the brute work and save the protable for the light finish work.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Sarge,
I'm in the same boat as you, only I have the 12 1/2" dewalt 733. Now that I'm running a business, and a lot more stock, I feel it's time to upgrade myself. I'm looking at the 15" Grizzly G0453 for $850 and buying the Byrd shelix head at the same time and install it upon arrival.
Wilke has their Yorkcraft 15" for $699, but I called the other day and they are out of stock and said it may be up to 3 months before they get any more in. It looks to be exactly the same machine as the Griz. Wilke will install the shelix head for $795 (including the head itself), so if it weren't for the wait, I would have pulled the trigger on it a few days ago.
Good luck, and let us all know what you decide.
Lee
First, I would like to thank each and every one that has taken their time to answer. I would go one on one, but I have much to do in the shop. I have been shopping planers today and the kitchen table for my wife awaits as the chairs are done. Seems I took a coupe of weeks off on that to install a new jointer and make a few mods on a new (to me..reco) Uni-saw. "And now this" she proclaims. ha.. ha...
I got some great answers here as a few of us seem to be in the same boat with should we or shouldn't we.. can I afford.. do I really need.. would it really benefit me, etc., etc.. Even though we live in different locals.. have different priorities and budgets perhaps.. and different needs as far as some business and some hobby.... there seems to be a shared bond of dilemma's we face in the journey we call Wood-working!
Ring.. thanks for your professional but yet humble analysis.. Your point of "having a wider planer might open some new directions even though sufficing could be done with what ya got"! A terrific thought!
Creekwood.. "don't fix it if it ain't broke" but.... someday it might be so.... "now I got it I find work for it"! This man see's the future better than "Miss Cleo" and doesn't even advertise as she did on the late night TV channels. :>)
Jimma.. long in-feed and long out-feed is his priority and my basic reason for even going shopping for the larger machine. I'm with you on your thoughts, Jimma!
John Martinsky.. who needs it to make a living.. doesn't have it.. but is going to get it.. with a terrific add of keeping the portable for finish quality even though upgrading. And I couldn't agree more. I almost sold my small BS when I up-graded. I decided to keep it and run a dedicated under 1/2" blades for curves, plastics, etc. I could count a hundred times already just in 5 months that I'm glad I made that decision. Well thunk JM!
Bruce.. who seems to have studied in the same "think-tank" as JM.. would love to have a 15" or better to "duke it out and in opening rounds and save the finesse for the finish line". Life is simple and those thoughts make sense to me!
Mapleman.. who faces a similar decision. He suggested the Griz or Yorkcraft at even a lower price as these seem to be the same machine. The man has done his home-work with those thoughts. Well done MM!
I've poured over web-sites for the last 3 days. Today I low-crawled around show-room and through 3 personal shops to fill in the blanks that the specs on-line don't reveal. Interesting as I found that different paint.. different manufacturers.. different prices don't necessarily make a "big difference" in this particular case. If you study the pics of most of these machines carefully, you will see the striking similarities. When you go over the machines visually with your own eyes, the difference narrows even more IMO.
We're talking Grizzly.. Shopfox.. Yorkcraft.. Steel City and lo and behold Power-matic. A few variations of goodies added or left off by the requested.. but I am convinced these came off the same basic line with a few customizations here and there.
In that case.. the smokin' deal at the moment is as Mapleman noted and that is the Wilke sponsored York-craft. The 15" is $699 plus $151 shipping for $850 with hydraulic lift truck to your door. The 20" is $1049 plus $171 shipping for $1220 total. Wilke has finally wised up and contracted a Truck firm to get flat rate to most states.
So.. what am I going to do. I purchased a Delta 36-136 miter-planer stand today for $169 at Lowes. I didn't know it exsited before today. It has 8' extensions and well built. It folds up and stands on end as a hand-truck with the planer attached. I was going to just mount it to the top of my heavy duty home-made planer sled and remove the base as I did with my 12" SCMS. But the quick release, standing vertical on a wall adn roll it around as a vertical hand-truck over-rides that thought.
It will eliminate the in-feed.. out-feed problem. It folds.. it rolls.. and I never thought I would say this.. but one of the group of current group of "blind squirrels" at Delta finally "got an acorn". Brilliant!
But.. any sign of planer trouble or when the next group of Yorkie's come in several months from now..........
I have the money and I have the space.. RED LIGHT.... I have legitimate cause provided by the pooled experience and good judgement of you guys that have responded.. STAND UP AND HOOK UP.... I have spent all my life doing "more with less" as my families needs have always come first. My family is taken care of now.. the house and vehicles are mine and I can afford to work part time.. SHUTTLE TO THE DOOR .... And my adorable wife says to me, "go ahead and get what you want sweet-heart, you deserve to do things just for yourself at this point"!
GREEN LIGHT.... G-E-R-O-N-I-M-O !!!!
The folded up and tucked away delicate "baby sister" will stand proud on her mobile chariot beside her "big brute brother" who can stand alone in a few months.
Little Finesse and Big Brute teamed for versatility in any given match-up. As Mohammed Ali once stated once before a big fight, "Float like a butter-fly... sting like a bee"! He won with that powerful combination, I intend to also! :>)
Again.. utmost thanks for your in-put, much appreciated! Pics at 11 PM.. or tomorrow if the stars and moon align.
Sarge.. jt
Edited 3/3/2007 11:01 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47
HI Sarge,If it's not too late (and it sounds as though it may be,) I'd wait and look for a second-hand machine from the 20's. For a similar amount of money, you'd get a unit that would have the long tables you want.Either that, or look to the Hammer over&under (combination thicknesser/planer) It comes with extension tables that bolt onto the infeed/outfeed tables and make life easy. THe $$$ are a lot more, however.Cheers,eddie
Afternoon to you.. Eddie
Never too late to consider any possibility. The 15" Yorkcraft is out of stock and you know how long it takes Conex containers to float across the Pacific. Always the possibility that a Japanese sub that hasn't realized WW II is over could sink the ship also. ha.. ha...
I thought about springing the $400 extra for the Yorkie 20", but that might be going a bit over-board in size for my non-commercial needs. I've seen many and no big deal. Start considering one seriously and the reality hits home that those 20" inchers are monster proportion and weight almost a ton.
Kind of like walking into a house for sale and your wife saying. "I just love these cathedral ceiling". And in reality your muttering under your breath, "who the h*ll is going to clean those windows and paint up there in the stratosphere". :>)
But an older machine remains an avenue that could be crossed. Hey.. I've waited 35 years. I was not going to up-grade TS's till early this fall when I get really busy in my shop. But a target of opportunity wandered right into my cross-hairs and I couldn't pass on pulling the trigger as sometimes opportunity only knocks once.
Thanks for your in-put Eddie... I always appreciate your advice from "down under"!
Regards...
Sarge.. jt
Edited 3/4/2007 12:42 am ET by SARGEgrinder47
You're welcome, Sarge,Happy shopping!!(I knocked back a Henry Ford planer/thicknesser 16 or 20", I can't remember which, a while back. Built like a tank, it was, and about USD2000.)Cheers,eddie
Hey Sarge,
I'm assuming you got that Uni from Redmond? My brother bought a reconditioned one couple of months ago from them ($999), and had been waiting on the delta mobile base and some accessories to come in. Stuff came a couple weeks ago, and they delivered it to his (ex-wife's) house in Atlanta. He got the thing all put together and when he went to put the splitter/blade guard on, there was some sort of weird alignment thing going on. He called Redmond back, they sent a guy out to look at the saw (with a brand new one on the truck) and he determined that something was wrong with the trunnion and the splitter could not be made to align with the blade. So they loaded up his saw and unloaded a brand spanking new one for him. Definitely service-oriented people at Redmond. Hope your saw went together without a hitch.
Lee
Morning Lee...
I did indeed. That was probably Greg Hughes (one of the commercial installers) that came out. My saw went without a hitch as Greg and I took the card-board cover off the saw pallet before I loaded it on my pick-up with the 8" jointer and we went over the saw itself throughly. I am a firm believer in checking the "gift horse in the mouth" before taking the plunge and usually have that opportunity here in Atlanta as almost all major manufacturers are represented here and within a 45 minute drive (exclude Bridgewood and Grizzly)..
The Uni-saw has a delicate trunnion that is prone to get damage in shipping as most trucking companies have no word in their dictionary that describes "Fragile". That's the main reason Greg and O.D. at Redmond told me that there are so many Uni's sold re-conditioned. Once on the ground and running, they say there is no problem other than routine as all brands have eventually. O.D at Redmond has owned and operated one for 10 years and he's the one that steered me to it when the well reduced floor model of the saw I went to get had been sold that morning.
The table had been re-ground to flatter than it originally came probably and the trunnions were new. So was the motor. A few tiny nicks in the paint here and there (ir-relevant cosmetics). Mine had the Biesemeyer which was new. A good time was had by all as I have gotten to know the guys at Redmond who is also the local Steel City distributor. I've gotten to know them also after originally meeting them there at the Redmond Grand Opening of their new show-room - warehouse.
The only flaw I found was when I opened the rails box for the Biesemeyer (which the rails were not new but had been re-painted and re-boxed). I had two front rails and no rear. I gave Redmond a call and a rear rail was sitting on my door-step the next morning. They are on the south side of town 47 miles away as I am on the N.E. side of Atlanta.
Yes.. great people with excellent customer service and they have a staff of very qualified people that install commercially and assist with "johnny-on-the-spot repair when you're machine is feeling ill. ha.. ha...
These guys do most of the commercial sales in the area with Delta.. Power-matic.. Jet.. Shopfox.. Steel City.. General and a host of both U.S. and foreign commercial machines they carry under their roof. You might say they don't lack no-how with machines as that was the reason Steel City gave them the local distributor-ship.
Regards...
Sarge.. jt
Sarge,
I've worked in a woodshop that had a 24" Powermatic planer, and in another that had only an older 13" Delta. I know a fellow who bought a 15" planer only to regret it when his skills improved to the level of building wider projects.
I found that the 20" planer was the way to go. It does not weigh a ton, nor does it prevent you from planing wide panel glue-ups for cedar chest and table tops. It lets up to 40" wide glue-ups with only one glue joint to be belt sanded flat.
With the new Helical carbide cutterheads from Byrd, the 20" will be ready when you decide you want one of those for all the burls and wild grain woods often found in lower costing air dried lumber or free lumber from blown down trees...
Get you the ShopFox 1,300lb rated mobile base for $89, you can move a 20" planer with half the effort of an old upright piano, and add a 15' power cord so you can move it inside the shop to plane those 10'-16' long boards. Also, you might checkout the usually $100 price difference and order your 20" with a 5hp motor.
Once you've lived with a 20" wide planer, your options of wide panels, checker boards, the ability to run your burl grains at an angle to help prevent chipout on straight knife cutterheads, and future resale advantages, you'll always be glad you bought that size. The newest 20" models have cast iron infeed/outfeed tables rather than extension rollers.
Good luck with your choice,
Bill
Evening Bill..
I"ve been on the trail of 15" & 20" for about 5 days now. Several of the new 20"s not only have cast iron beds, they have built in casters and a foot raise. How's that for progress. I suppose it finally took the Chinese to "get er done". Just kidding' of course. ha.. ha....
What you say has merit as I was already considering the 20". The York has the built in casters and is only $400 more than the 15" with both within $23 in truck freight. It's a little wider.. a little longer and does not take up but a few more square feet. And I could anchor my floor joist (my shop is down under the house as it sits on a slope) in case of tornado and hurricane. :>)
Again.. your thoughts make sense..
Regards...
Sarge.. jt
Hello Sarge,
I thought of one other element that can make a big difference. When you've decided on the width and horsepower you want, what brand will you choose?
From having some time pass and gaining some experience, I'd say get the brand that has good write-ups and even more important, one that has a parts supplier in your state or neighboring states. If you have any trouble, they are the ones that can make the difference between a working piece of machinery or an 800 lb. boat anchor.
For me, a similar comparison is Laguna and MiniMax....
For several reasons, I bought a Woodtek 20" planer back in 2001 from Woodworker's supply. They have a parts department and their outfeed roller design is rubber coated for a little more grip. Although, currently, their 20" 4-bladed planer isn't keeping up with the newer options and design perks you and I have listed.
Don't forget to consider where your customer support is and how they take of their customers,
"Texas" Bill
Thanks Bill. I know the better part of the tool distributors in the Atlanta area and their employee's by name as I am in their stores often and see most at the Woodworking Shows here.
Frankly, I don't put a lot of faith in the reviews. They seem to be in a hurry sometimes and don't necessarily go over the machines with a fine tooth comb as I prefer. I like to crawl under.. over.. and through machines to see what the pretty paint might be hiding. I work with "muscle cars" as a livili-hood and do have a bit of machinery back-ground, so I should be OK in that department.
And I agree with you totally about support and customer service after the sale. I had rather pay a little more and get it than save a dime and not have it if the need arises.
Regards...
Sarge.. jt
Here's something I rigged up with the follding Delta miter saw stand to get by till a "real deal" falls in my lap. And I am confident it will.. just a matter of time.
This little fellow will support 6' on the stands. I calculate another 3' with a hand-held assist on the in-bound side. Anything over 9' I would prefer to add another Rigid flip-top friction support on both ends especially with 8/4 or over stock in the heavier species.
Not bad considering and with a squeeze on a handle it has a piston shock that releases and it folds down in a micro-second to a hand-truck that can be rolled and stored against a wall. Quick, convenient and reality effective as support for both ends of stock.
These "lunch box" planers aluminum tables are not overly stable on their own as heavy cast iron table beds, but with finesse and a little engineering you can do about anything you wish in the size range till that "big baby" shows up in a basket on your door-step one morning without a hint of how it got there. :>)
Regards...
Sarge.. jt
Edited 3/5/2007 1:18 am ET by SARGEgrinder47
After doing much digging and research.. I reached a decision on the final solution for my needs. I will keep the 13" portable for any smaller finish planing as it does that very adequately.
Intensive research resulting in finding that the Steel City and Power-matic come from the same plant in Taiwan. The Grizzly, Shopfox and Wilke Yorkcraft come from the same plant in China. Both the Taiwan and China plants share the same owner-ship and a good portion of parts are inter-changeable amongst the various machines.
So.. that left price point and size (15" r 20") as my main focus in my decision became which and what size.....
The award goes to the "Yorkie" YC-20P as the bottom line shipped to my door with a hydraulic lift truck was $1209. The "Yorkie" 20" is cheaper than several of the 15" competitors and beats the Griz 20" shipped by about $250!
And Curt at Wilke knew his machine with parts on hand according to him. If there's a better deal out there in a new 20".. I couldn't find it!
Done deal as the "Yorkie" 20" is paid for.. loaded and headed south!
Regards to all that offered their help...
Sarge.. jt
Dear Sarge,
Hey, that's great! Post a review and let us know what you think.Best,John
Evening J M...
Good as done after the set up and the next load of stock comes into the shop. Down to the last coat of finish and rub-out on a country kitchen table and chairs for the lovely. The day it comes up-stairs I have been instructed to point the pick-up toward Suwanee Lumber to pick up hard-wood for the new bedroom suite. And we won't mention the wall sized organizer for her crochet yarn, the new coffee table, etc., etc.
I knew I should have just said "NO" to that 1st tool purchase 35 years ago. Look what it got me into. ha.. ha...
Regards...
Sarge.. jt
Sarge,
My sawmill sells me 22 inch wide planks all of the time. Back when they had the 60 inch blade they used to provide up to 28 inch wide planks..
Now that was something 28 inches wide by 18 feet long.. we're talking two boards to make a table here!
If you have it they will come!
Evening Frenchy...
I used to see that also... but things have changed here. Where I am in the Atlanta Metro Area there used to be cotton fields and many trees. Several sawmills were within a 20 mile radius and you always saw a saw-mill.. a "moon-shine still".. a saw-mill.. a "moon-shine still".. etc. ha.. ha...
Now there are just houses.. malls.. etc. I went to HD today to pick up a piece of Birch ply for some jigs. I haven't purchased lumber there in years. I couldn't believe how crappy even the birch ply has gotten. I hope that was just an isolated in-cident. Terrible and expensive.
Regards...
Sarge.. jt
Sarge,
I've been in Atlanta a few times and you're right it's grown a bit <G> but it doesn't take too long to get out where the trees still dominate and the sawmills are still run by family.
It might not be as close as Home Depot but I guess that's the price you pay for progress. What I did is find my sawmill where I can get what I want and while it's a drive, I get enough so that I don't have to make that drive every week or even every month.. In fact once I finish this house I'll make another trip to pick up the rest of the stuff I'd likeand that should pretty much have me set..
Trees continue to grow and if things change in the future I'll stop on back and get whatever else I need..
The cool thing is as you get away from the metro areas price plumet and the quality of stuff increases..
Least wise as it applies to wood.
Frenchy...
I have 3 suppliers that are great and very fair priced, all within 45 miles with the closest and my main being 10 miles away. But... the local saw-mills just aren't there anymore. And you rarely see stock wider than 15' at the well stocked and well run local hardwood dealers.
Gotta get to work!
Regards...
Sarge.. jt
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled