I am doing a project and want to incorporate many panels with a similar kind of soft “pillow” edge. How do you think it was done? The photo is of a detail from a bed by Charles Shackleton.
I’m thinking a molder but a “roundover” raised panel plane would be a lot more fun.
What’s your best guess.
Sorry the photo is so small.
Thanks in advance to all who respond.
John
Replies
In a production situation, I'm sure you can buy a panel raising bit to get close. Otherwide, I'd just use a standard bit then work on it with a block plane and a sander to round it over. No, not every panel would be EXACTLY the same, but I'd get them close.
Sorry folks, I didn't mean molder, I meant shaper:)
The photo doesn't show it that well but this profile is mucho larger and the radius more shallow and also in reverse of commercial non-custom panel bits. Also larger than I feel comfortable with on a router. A 3" diameter bit is about the most I would go. The radius on this example is a little more than 2.25". I don't have a shaper, but would job it out. I was thinking if I had to pay for a custom shaping set, I would do just as well making a plane. I try not to sand, but rather plane or scrape for final and I think I'm looking for more consistency than sanding would allow. The panel bit is a good idea but may not fit the bill for me because of size.Thank youJohn
Hi John,
One alternative to a shaper or router cut would be to remove as much material as you can on the table saw set at 30-40 degrees (or whatever is appropriate) and finish with hand planes. The tricky spot will be where the profile ends and the panel tongue starts. You could even use a profile template to check your progress or, as you suggested, use a custom scraper for finish sizing.
It's a very unique panel shape and will probably require a fair bit of hand work. Did you say what type material you're using for this project?
Paul
Hey Paul,It will probably be spalted mapleJohnEdit: PS: Paul, we are supposed to see the sun on Thursday!
not sure I'll recognize it.
Edited 2/12/2008 10:14 am by boilerbay
I've used one of these thumbnail bits from Lee Valley:
View Image
to do a similar edge, although it doesn't look quite as deep as the one in your photo.
-Steve
Steve,You hit the problem on the head, which is why I was thinking springing for a custom set for someone else's shaper :(
or get some HC steel and make my own plane.Thanks,John
If you only need a few panels, you could shape them with ordinary bench planes.
John White
John,Thanks for your response. With your experience, I really value your input.
I would normally have done this but there are 19 panels running from 6x9.5 to 8x30. I am concerned over consistency.Thanks,John
Uh-oh... here comes Chris with another crazy idea...
Would it be possible to grind jointer knives to that profile and cut them on the jointer using that oh-so-useful rabbetting ledge? The outfeed and outfeed tables would have to be set lower than the blade by the height of the profile.Chris @ flairwoodworks
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
You forget that the blades would need to be sticking out of the cutter block about another half to three quarters of an inch. Need to then grind back the tables too, they won't move back far enough as they lower. Not to mention the danger from the open blades and the amount of force they would be generating while taking half an inch or deeper cuts. Think nasty kickback!:-(A better bet would be to try to locate someone in the area with a Williams and Hussey, get the blades made to make that soft profile, and after running the panels leaving the blades as payment. It will easily make that cut without needing too much end grain cleanup and would be a lot safer than a modified jointer. Plus if in the future he needed to make a few more panels for a matching cabinet he'd be all set. I'd probably do a deal like that with my machine if he were local.;-)
I tend to agree with you on the joiner blades.
I would consider shaper work in exchange for the blades, if I could find someone close and oversee the work. There are a few near by but most such services are 2 hours inland. I also have some trepidations and reservations about putting some pretty expensive stock in a hogger's hands. No insult to them, but they remove a lot of wood fast and huge tear outs are no big thing to them. They tend to toss and get another piece. Their business is production, not quality.
As far as a Williams and Hussey, wouldn't that be a very long set of knives? Thats why I said shaper instead of molder. I would consider a W/H in that case.
John
Good morning John,
Thought about your project last night. Went out to the shop this morning to check some possibilities.
Forget the start with the tablesaw as I suggested. Not worth the trouble. I do have some cutter blanks that fit my Weaver insert tooling cutterhead for the shaper but it looks as if it's not quite big enough (usable knife area of 3/4"x 1 9/16" ), although larger blanks might be available. I also checked my W&H clone (Shop Fox) . The maximum cut depth is 3/4" and width of up to 7" in 1/2" increments.
A pair of custom knives from W&H will cost you about $170. plus shipping (my price list might be outdated) and maybe less if you have a local grinder.
If the Weaver might work for you I'd be more than happy to pop it in the mail with the blanks. 3 " diameter head with a 3/4" bore. 4 1/2" total diameter with knives.
With the shaper what I like to do is once I have the fence set to give me the profile I'm looking for is to add 1 or 2 thin fences that I can remove as I go. That will allow me to sneak up on the finish profile without changing the settings with the last pass for cleanup. The molder (Shop Fox) can only do this operation in one pass which would be a little nasty, especially with spalted maple.
You could also get a custom fixed wing cutter for the shaper. That, IMO, would be another solution for consistency, although the most expensive.
Paul
Edited 2/13/2008 12:51 pm ET by colebearanimals
Blades for the W&H would not be the problem however the spalted maple and the small panels could be. Tear out especially across the ends might be depending on the amount of spalting as it would be on the best shaper too. The narrow width, because of roller contact issues that can be worked around by making the panels wider (gluing several together or adding sacrificial strips) and ripping them to width after all the ends are molded. colebearanimals is correct about having to cut in one pass for the most part, but W&H have a new multi-pass kit (on my wish list) that lets you sneak up on the final cut. It might also be possible to clamp a thin piece of plywood on top of panel beside the cutting zone to allow a second pass. Since I haven't tried it I can't say for sure.As an alternative that hasn't been discussed yet. You might look for someone with a CNC router (ShopBot for instance) and they could make the shape with multiple passes (called Kellering in metal machining), each one moved fractionally along the profile. The tear out and small panel sizes would not be a problem and then the cleanup of the surfaces would be your choice of scrapers or sandpaper. Round top or French curved panels are then possible.
Thanks, I'll look into the CNC. Is is a very good idea.
It might well be an alternative, though in this case I have the time and if not to pressed, I'd like to stay just a little closer to the wood - I try and stay more on the hand tool side if possible. CNC is kind of giving up the spirit.No one seems to think building a raised panel plane is any good? A little wider than most but not that outrageous.Quelle BummerJohn
Hey Paul,
Thanks for the offer. I'll take your dimensions and see what a I can work out. If I don't worry about the frame edge and take John White's idea, it would simply things and maybe keep a certain level of consistency. Still the end grain problem that I was aware of at the start, although sneaking up on them (all the end grain cuts at one time) might be the ticket.
Let me cogitate on it and if a go, I'll send you a note.
John
It is such a soft profile that I think you could probably get the panels to look good even if they weren't quite a perfect match. I would cut a piece of thin aluminum to the mirror image of the profile and use it to judge my progress. I would also cut close to the shape with a table saw which would help to keep everything evenly matched.My concern with doing this on a shaper would be both tearout and burning on the end grain. If either of those occur, the cleanup and loss of the profile would be worse than doing the shaping entirely freehand.One unconventional way to simplify making the profile is to shape the panels without the lip that will fit the panels into the frame. Once the profile is made then rabbet the edges of the panel for glued in splines that will create the lip. With the lip out of the way, shaping the profile on the panels will be much easier.John White
John,If Paul's (colebearanimals) works out, I may try to do a combination. Your aluminum guide and with separate panel edges and as you both said - precut on TS to get rid of majority of waste.- Maybe a clipped 45 flat cut followed by a shallow vertical "raised cut".To all thanks for your ideas and input. If I get this down pat, I'll post the result and hopefully some schedule shots.Thanks John
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