I recently bought a Veritas medium shoulder plane to fine tune some mortise and tenon joints and I was amazed at how well it worked. Tuning the fit by hand was truly a pleasure. My next project will involve gluing up several small table tops and I am thinking about getting another hand plane for smoothing the tops after glue up and possibly for joining the edges beforehand. What size plane would be best for these tasks?
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Replies
a low angle jack plane will make light work of things like that, and a bunch more besides... look for a #62
Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
Mike.. I do not have one.. What do you think of scraper planes.. I think that is what they call them.. I love using a scraper but never had a scraper plane.. I'm sure easier on the fingers but with a scraper you can angle it anyway you want on the stock..
Appreciate your thoughts.. Thanks
George... I'll be honest with ya... I've a love / hate reationship with my #112...
When it's properly honed and makin short work of some wild stuff... I love it... that 3" blade makes short work of a wide panel in no time...
When it needs honed... mannnnnnn I'd sooner have a root canal...
It's taken me forever to find some stones wide enough for it; my eclipse guide is barely wide enough to hold it, and I gotta be real carefull not to gouge the stone.. Fortunately it's not something I've needed to do too often...
I'm still at the steep end of the card scraper learning curve... I always seem to get more burned fingers than curlies when working with em... but... I'm too thran to give up on em... ;)Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
Mike was that a NO? LOL ...
Thanks for your input...
well..... not exactly....
I'm not getting the practice I need to hone the blade with confidence mainly because my other planes are kickin butt
;)Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
A #7 Jointer would be my suggestion. A Lie-Neilson at around $400 would be a good investment if you are expecting to do hand planing a lot. The plane will be flat, square and heavy enough to carry through the planing pass with ease.
Good Luck
A No. 7 should pretty much always be your first bench plane for what I think are obvious reasons - you can joint and flatten with it and you can also use it as a smoother. A Bedrock style is best here as it allows easy frog adjustment to open and close the mouth depending on what you're doing.
On well behaved stock I've come behind the scrubber with a No. 7 and never progressed down to Jack and smoother as is commonly recommended.
Hi,
I strongly agree with Mike; if I could only have one plane, it would be a L-N #62 with a straight and toothed blade (although I'd make a serious check into the Lee Valley L-A Jack--but they don't sell a toothed blade so far as I know).
The toothed blade will scrub, set properly, with NO tearout; a bit slower than the scrub, but no tearout to plane off. I find that it will joint edges adequately, especially since I make my joints slightly "sprung" any way. It will flatten, given a set of winding sticks and a straightedge, and will smooth in a pinch (it's a bit long for that job). It works well on straight grained softwoods, or figured hardwoods, with some adjustment.
All this is possible because the bevel is upward, and the cutting angle can be changed in minutes on a set of waterstones--something you'll need anyway if you don't already have them. The mouth is adjustable, like a block plane, adjustment is simple, and the whole thing can be had for about $100 less than a L-N #7: $225 for the plane and straight blade, $40 for a toothed blade (which, once you get the hang of it, will be an asset that you can't figure out how you ever lived without.)
I also have the L-V medium shoulder plane, and agree that it is pure joy. If you think you're getting into hand planes more, consider your sharpening set up; it's key to keeping the process enjoyable.
Charlie
Thanks for all the suggestions. I am curious about the difference between a low angle jack and a regular jack plane, which I assume is closer to the #7 joiner that some suggested. I have a shoulder plane (Veritas medium) and a low angle block plane (new Stanley that I have done some work on per the latest article in FWW), but I use those mostly for touch up type tasks. This would be my first "serious" plane.I am tempted to go with the low angle jack if nothing else than because the price for experimenting with it is lower. I would be interested in others' opinions. Thanks to all who have posted, this forum is a really great resource.
I reckon the key difference is versatility; buy it with a couple of spare conventional blades and a toothing blade as Charlie suggests, what you have is one of the most versatile systems there is. Set fine it'll take a shaving that you can read through, set course and it'll hog through the rough stuff fairly quickly. Honing a blade to a higher angle will let you tackle difficult grain with some confidence while the standard angle will see to end grain with ease. The adjustable mouth leaves you with very few plausable excuses for tear out. The mass of the iron is impressive too; it simply doesn't chatter... period!!
In use it's a real comfortable plane to work with; I find the weight just about perfect for a tool that I spend a fair bit of time with when working a board from rough-cut. By far the most impressive for me (being a novice when I bought my 62) was being able to put absolute faith in the tool when things went wrong; I knew the tool was capable of doing the job properly, therefore the fault had to be something I was doing wrong, either the wrong set up or incorrect technique. Learning with this tool made working with subsequent bench planes all the easier.
Maintainence wise, it canna get much simpler. The adjustable mouth is just 3 pieces, removing the lever cap and blade leaves just the rear tote in place; no excuses for not keeping the tool in prime condition.
The nearest comparable bedrock pattern would be a #5 as the bed length is identical to the 62. There's a lot to be said for the #5 too, but I'll stick to my guns; for a first bench plane ye canna go far wrong with the 62..
Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
Edited 3/23/2005 7:15 pm ET by Mike
Low angle planes are designed for end grain wood. They are a compromise on any other type of planning. Low angle planes have become so popular because of the price, it is much cheaper to produce one because of the lack of a frog. I am not saying that they will not do an adequate job, just that they are a compromise. If you plan on owning more than 1 full sized plane, then I would not recommend a Low angle tool other than a block plane. My recomendation for a single plane for what you describe would be a #6 or a #7. The order that I would recommend for purchasing planes would be #1 a 4 or 4 1/2 smoother, #2 a 7 or 8 jointer, #3 a scrub, and #4 a low angle block. Peter
Peter, it seems that we agree on malt whiskies, but I have to disagree on this issue, and I learned this from Deneb, the L-N rep. The low angle system is not the compromise that you suggest because you can change the angle of attack quite easily, or buy extra blades. Any angle you want is at your fingertips. I saw Deneb set his to 60 deg and do wonders on a big slab of curly birds-eye maple.Now, I DO agree that a set of planes is far and away better than any one, but properly taught, you'd be amazed at what you can get done with just that one plane. I spent hours watching Deneb, and learned SO much, but the most valuable thing was the versatility of this plane. It is certainly not limited to end grain, although I'l admit that it is highly effective at planing off proud tails and pins, and squaring crosscuts.I think the biggest trade-off is the scrubbing that the #62 offers. It's slow, and I covet a scrub plane, which will be the next purchase. For flattening panels, I'd far rather have the 362, but I need a scrub for those twisted rough cut boards.CharlieI tell you, we are here to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different. --K Vonnegut
Interesting coments about the low angle plane. I haven't tried one, being of the same persuasion as Peter, but what you say seems plausible.
As far as a scrub plane goes, while I was waiting for a scrub plane to come my way, I took a $15 jack plane, ground a fairly sharp curve on the blade so it took a narrower cut than normal, and moved the frog all the way back. It works pretty well, and I find it occasionally is more suited than the scrub for some roughing applications, such as on glued-up panels.
Michael R
Thanks, I've considered that. One thing that holds me back, on either the scrub or the jack as you described, is confusion re: how to sharpen the curved blade. Any help on that?CharlieI tell you, we are here to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different. --K Vonnegut
how to sharpen the curved blade.
First off you don't need a super fine edge. It's a scrub plane.
I just ground the curve on a grinder and honed the bevel with a stone held in my hand, then honed the back. I like things sharp, but don't waste much time where it's not needed. Basically treated it like a lathe gouge.
Michael R
Edited 3/24/2005 1:41 pm ET by Woodwiz
Sigh..OK, I'll try to stop over-thinking it. I've been given similar advice, but after all the time spent learning to get a smoother blade razor sharp...CharlieI tell you, we are here to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different. --K Vonnegut
Charlie -
I have a home made 2" vertical belt sander that I use for sharpening my lathe chisels and my scrub plane blade. I use a belt made specifically for metal and use 220 grit. The belt is butt jointed and not lap jointed so you don't get the thump thump thump every time the joint comes around.
For all other plane blades I use a 10" medium grit grey stone with a water drip running at 300 rpm for the initial grind then use the scary sharp method for the bevel.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)PlaneWood
Changing bevel angles on bevel up planes - this notion has been around for a long time. Interestingly, Sam Allen in his out-of-print book Plane Basics (used copies selling for around 90 bucks) goes into some detail and provides charts on 'converting' a block plane to a high angle smoother for this very purpose. Obviously, the sole is a bit short, but this will work.
Changing bevel angles on bevel up planes - this notion has been around for a long time.
Well , it does appear to make sense. Maybe I'll give it a try on my LA block plane.
Sort of speaks poorly about the need for a chipbreaker, eh? Or is that another whole discussion? <G>
Michael R
I think it's Much Ado About Nothing, but my kit is already in place. I have a quality (bevel down) smoother and if that doesn't work I go to the scraper without apologies and with zero futzing around.
I'm not liquidating tool inventory to get a low-angle jack or smoother into the mix. I just don't need one. L-A planes are a *dubious* panacea, even though they are being marketed as such, and you bring up a helluva good point about the chipbreaker. I don't even use a block plane on end grain anymore. I'm not even sure where my block plane is. I just pick up an old Record #4. Sometimes it raises a shaving, most of the time it makes dust, it squares ends all of the time. Yeah, if end grain shows on one of my pieces it looks like it was hand planed. Imagine that. I need to put a Post-It note on my bench as a reminder to hone the iron in the damned thing one of these days.
Predictably, those who have just bought an L-A unit crow the loudest about their merits. Just as the tool manufacturers would have it.
Just something else to buy and to "gloat" about on a woodworking forum.
Edited 3/24/2005 5:24 pm ET by cstan
Just something else to buy and to "gloat" about on a woodworking forum.
I get around to using it too sometimes... fancy that...Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
Charlie,
The LN 62 was the first plane I purchased and I agree with you, regarding it's versatility. It's a very simple plane though, with only a few parts. I have an old pre-war #6 Stanley Baily, which runs circles around the LN, due it's weight, blade width, length and more comfortable design, when planing glued up boards.
I now use the LN only for final finishing, taking extremely light cuts. It's a nice plane, but no substitute for a big conventional smoother.
Yeah, you've mentioned that old Bailey before. I've got one of those, too; I like it, but not nearly as much as the L-N. Could be different strokes, or could be that the L-N rep spent a lot of time with me and the #62, so I've got it down cold; the Bailey I'm more on my own with. A little education does wonders, eh?CharlieI tell you, we are here to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different. --K Vonnegut
I'll second or third the #7 jointer, L-N would be my choice if $ is no object. I personally own #7 Record. You are wanting to joint an end table top for glue-up, correct. They don't call a #7 or 8 a jointer plane for the heck of it.
Say...Mike Taylor, I thought you left, good to see you roaming around again. Say... check out my new website: http://www.beautifulwoodworks.com
Edited 3/25/2005 2:24 pm ET by Dale
Dale your link to your site does not work.Scott C. Frankland
Scott's WOODWORKING Website"He who has the most tools may not win the race of life but he will sure make his wife look like a good catch when she goes to move on."
Thanks Scott,
I've got to learn to spell better. It's fixed not.
Say does anyone know if I can program a button on the key board to spit out a word, ie my website name. It's such a long name I often miss-spell the thing. That could cost me a few sells.
TIA,
Dale
Edited 3/25/2005 3:24 pm ET by Dale
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