Feel free to call me stupid (I’d prefer “ignorant”, but what the heck), but I can’t figure out why I should use certain chisels just for paring, and others just for chopping, when I’m cutting dovetails. I figure the beginning and end of it is – Are they sharp or not?
I’ll sharpen my chisel any time I feel it’s getting less productive. So I’m always working with optimal cutting edges. If that’s the case, does it make any difference if I use the same chisel to chop out the waste and then pare down to my layout lines?
As an experiment, I took a 1/2″ Buck Bros. bench chisel (That’s right, a cheapo HD Tool Corral special!) and using my Veritas honing jig, sharpened around 32 degrees, but then added a “micro bevel,” essentially a second edge, which is supposed to add some efficiency to the cutting process.
Then I took a Marples Blue Handle and sharpened to the same angle, but without the micro bevel. It may have been that the Marples did a slightly better job on the paring, but not by a lot.
What’s the current “best practice,” and what have you found works best for you?
Humbly submitted
Replies
I'f you're using narrower chisels like 1/4 or 3/8 you risk bending the bench or paring chisels for heavier chopping. The corresponding mortise chisels would have a thicker blade where this wouldn't be a problem. 1/2" like you tested might not be as much of an issue, but for me it would depend on whether the wider chisels were cheapos or something pricey before I'd risk it - especially after spending time flattening the chisel backs. With the added mass of the thicker blade, I'm pretty sure I can take deeper cuts with the mortise chisels too, making quicker work of roughing out the hole before I switch to a paring chisel for fine tuning.
I love the smell of sawdust in the morning.
The chisels you mentioned, essentially bevel edged firmers as far as I'm concerned, work fine for dovetail chopping and subsequent paring. You do need to be a little mindful when you whip out the 1/4 and 1/8 and start whacking. My Marples and Narex units see the business end of the mallet all the time. I could not possibly care less if a set of chisels last me a lifetime. I work them hard and you should too.
That said, these are not appropriate chisels for chopping mortises from scratch. If you routinely bore out most of the waste for your mortises you can certainly use the mallet on your firmers at that point but they shouldn't be used for aggressive levering of waste. Best to buy a couple of mortise chisels instead of routinely using your firmers during mortising. They'll work in a pinch though.
The paring chisel can also have a flatter angle, making paring easier. You probably do not want a secondary bevel nor do you need it. The edge will last a lot longer if it is only used for paring. The paring chisel is more delicate, frequently having a very long blade.
The chopping (or mortise) chisel needs a beefier angle to stand up to the mallet blows and a secondary bevel could be helpful. The mortise chisel is usually made to be hit, having metal rings to prvent the handle from splitting.
Also, having two sets of chisels gives you more bragging rights.
Excellent advice, guys, Thanks! I tend to rout then pare my mortises, so I'm OK there. I hardly ever use a 5/32" or 1/4" for chopping, but on the odd occasion that I do, I use a much lighter hand.
Btw, Ben, are you saying the secondary bevel isn't needed for paring, or do you advocate not having it on all of your chisels?
Thanks again,
Mitch
Duh, sorry Ben, I see where you mentioned a secondary bevel could be good for chopping. If only I read my messages more carefully...
I'd rather be ignorant too, mvac. We can always get the ignorance fixed but there is no cure for stupid.
When I cut dovetails, I use the saw to cut numerous side by side cuts in the waste. This results in a bunch of leaves that can be pushed out with the chisel. Therefore, I don't do much chopping, mostly paring. I have found that I like a very low angle for paring, 20°-25°. This creates a thinner edge that would not stand up to chopping as well as a 30°.
Mortise chisels are constructed a little differently than bevel edged. A bit thicker, without the bevels. They seem to have a better presence in your hand and in the cut, when chopping. The higher the angle of the blade bevel, the more they seem to hunk out waste. The deeper you try to strike, the more you chisel gets pushed into an undercut. One way to overcome this tendency is to use a low angle with a secondary or micro bevel. The micro bevel, for me, adds a bit of strength to an otherwise delicate edge. I don't use micro bevels on anything else, because I hate having to erase them, once they are no longer micro. A true micro bevel is just that. It takes a very fine stone, 8000 with one or two careful strokes. You have to hold the edge in the light to see a bright hair of an edge, reflected back. It actually looks like silver liquid. You can see them on utility and razor blades.
In the case of dovetails, you may want a couple different chisels. I like a wide one between the pins, a medium for paring and a small in the taile end sockets. The type will be up to the woodworkers personal preference. When it comes to shooting pool, they always say, "it ain't the stick". That's not to say that a straighter, fancier stick won't help improve your shots or make playing more fun. Keep an open mind and don't be afraid to try something new. Next year I may have a completely different take on bevels and sharpening.
Hammer,
Thanks, and btw, great name...
I do much of what you do when cutting dovetails, e.g. - making multiple saw cuts in each waste area. But instead of paring, I remove the work from the vise, lay it flat, and make usually 4 chop lines perpendicular to the saw cuts. Then I chuck the work back in the vise, and the chisel takes out the waste "like buttah." I probably do that 2-3 X on the first face, then turn the work over and chop out the rest - usually takes another 2x to get the waste to break out completely, leaving the work to be pared to the layout lines and smoothed with a file, rasp, riffler, whatever.
I'd be interested to know your method for paring out the waste. I've had some experiences when, while I've been paring, the work will start to crack vertically below the baseline. So I take it very slow. But maybe your method of approaching the pin or tail has less risk of that.
Finally, even though I still believe a good chisel is a sharp chisel, I bought 5 Pfiel Swiss-made bench chisels at Woodcraft today (yesterday) - 5/32", 1/4", 1/2", 3/4" and 1". I'll have my first opportunity to use them tomorrow. I've heard enough people rave about Pfiel, and at least a couple mention their satisfaction w/ their bench chisels (they made their reputation with their carving tools), that I figured I couldn't go wrong, at $120 for all 5. While I haven't used them yet, they all passed the fingernail test, and for one the arm hair test, right out of the satchel.
Look forward to hearing back about your technique. Do you think a 30-32 degree bevel could be responsible for that cracking while paring?
All the best,
Mitch
Hi mvac. I don't remove the waste as you are saying, I use a fret saw and cut about a strong 1/16" from the line and then chop to the base line. I wonder if the cracking that you describe is from your chisel spreading the series of sawkerfs that you have made? I took a class from Rob Cosman on how to cut dovetails and there is probably no one better or more efficient. If you are interested you can purchase his videos at Lie-Nielsen. Happy cutting.
Lucky duck, mvac. The Pfeil's have a great reputation. Have you checked the angle that the manufacturer put on them? I have a fairly new Marples 1 1/2", it came with a 22.5°. It's possible that a 30° will act more like a wedge, you also may be trying to strike it too deep. I can draw a parallel in splitting firewood. An axe will often get stuck in a log. The thin profile enters the wood but doesn't push it apart enough to split. A splitting maul has a thicker profile and a more triangular shape. It rarely gets stuck, in fact it may bounce back. My theory is, that the thinner the bevel the deeper it can cut without splitting. If I'm cutting half blind dovetails, I just lightly chop down on the line between the pins. I keep the stock flat on the bench, sometimes stacking four fronts in a staggered pile. I keep the ends facing me. I make a 1/16" incising cut on the line and then come in on the end to remove a flake. The end grain splits off easily, there isn't a need for a bunch of saw cuts. It would be nice to have some angled chisels to get into the corners, one of those sets of lefts and rights. I just use a knife now. I often use a guide block for my saw just to keep the angles uniform and the saw square. I use both an angle and a bevel guide block, set up like a square, bevel for the pins, angle for the tails. It would be nice to have a vice about chest height for a lot of this work. On through dovetails, I try to cut the multiple kerfs right up to the line. I think leaving and cutting a 1/16" is just as much work as cutting the whole hunk. If the kerfs are right up to the score line, it only takes a push to pare them out, flip and even up the back. If I have a bunch to do, I'm not afraid to use some dadoes on the table saw. I lean toward the English type pattern on dovetails. Fewer and larger tails with finer pins. I sometimes use the table saw to cut the angles for the tails. I never use files or sandpaper to fit, just the bevel edged chisel. I don't use mortise chisels on dovetails, they just don't fit anywhere without the beveled sides. Have fun with your new toys.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Paring/Chopping / Putty Knife/Chop Nails/Chop Concrete/Scrape Glue/Scrape Rust/Throwing Knife w/ Same Chisel - SoWhat
NO I take Care Of My Chisels
I get PO when some one eles touches mine!
Mvac,
I'm a big believer in whatever chisel feels good in your hands, provides the repeatability you want and has acceptable maintenance requirements is fine. On the other hand, if you don't experience the various differences in chisels then you'll never know if feel, repeatability or maintenance could have been enhanced in certain situations.
Last month I cut some of the 'diamond shaped molding' as featured in FWW and in a video here on the home site. It came out okay. Just for fun I made another piece of diamond molding..but this time I changed the bevel on my paring chisel to 20 degrees...wow, what a difference. Those paring chisels now can take thin end grain shavings with little effort.
So while I'm still a big believer in whatever chisel feels good, etc., the reality is many are becoming single purpose tools and it would be foolish to use/abuse them for other tasks.
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