Replies

1. 
   Spalted | Mar 03, 2008 12:15am | #1

   My advice is to bid it ridiculously high. I HATE p-lam; it's stinky, sharp and takes A LOT of finicky filing and cleanup. We are finishing up a huge job for a place in NYC (service kitchen and laundry room/area) and the effect it has on your morale is staggering. That said it has it's place (like maybe a service kitchen or laundry). we use a product called Trim-ease to lubricate a solid hss trim bit. The bits are cheap-about 8$ each and they make a beveled one as well for a similar price. the lube wirks great and as long as you apply it b4 you roll on the contact cement it keeps cleanup manageable too. This job we're doing has a glossy p-lam surface so any scratch from the bit is blatantly noticeable. I've used the bearing guided bits that are more like the carbide trim bits you see but too much pressure on the router can easily make the cutter take some of the melamine surface with it. Take it slow and plan all your parts and cuts in advance. Make sure you have a good J-roller to help put even pressure on the work. Good luck and better you than me!

1. 
   DonStephan | Mar 04, 2008 04:26am | #2

   Thanks for the info.  I also hate working with plam, only bidding on the job because need the work.  I'll have to try a sample plam edge on melamine coated particle board without the bearing guided bit, just the normal plam bit, and see if I get any scratches.  Will be using a PC laminating trimmer so hopefully there won't be as much pressure on the melamine as with a PC 690 router.  Have a good week.

2. 
   DonStephan | Mar 06, 2008 11:37pm | #4

   Could you explain the tools and processes needed to edge a cabinet front with plam? For this purpose, consider a two drawer two door cabinet 30" tall and 24" wide. The cabinets I'm supposed to match have full height plam strips 30" x 3/4" on the sides of the cabinet. The three rails each have plam strips 22 1/2" x 3/4" with the ends cut square and meeting perfectly the vertical strips. Finally, the drawer divider dies perfectly into the top and drawer rail strips.I've read a bit about underscribe laminate trimmer bases, and that with care a second piece of plam can be trimmed to mate perfectly with an already cut and fully adhered piece of plam, if the second is adhered to within a couple inches of the first. But how to trim the side of the vertical pieces so they are perfectly straight and square to guide the underscribe base for the drawer rail?If I'm working with iron-on melamine or wood, I iron the edging in place so it overlaps both sides of the cabinet side. After the glue cools, using a plastic file or double sided trimmer I bring the veneer flush with the cabinet side. Then using a utility knife and 12" straightedge against the inside surface of the side of the cabinet, I trim the veneer where it overlaps the interesting rail, giving me a straight and square seam for the rail veneer.I could see adhering a 1 1/8" (or so) wide strip of plam and then flush trimming where it overlaps the cabinet side, but how to make that straight and square seam over the rails?Thanks.

1. 
   ring | Mar 07, 2008 08:24am | #5

   Don,I'm not 100% sure I follow correctly the method you describe, but if I'm not mistaken it seems you're doing the edgebanding on an assembled cabinet face. No commercial shop I know of does this. Every cabinet member gets its edgebanding before assembly of the unit. If you leave the parts just a tad longer than final measurement and cut to final length after the edgebanding is applied you'll have perfect joints on the cabinet assembly.David Ring

   http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e

1. 
   DonStephan | Mar 07, 2008 11:38pm | #6

   Thanks for the feedback, but now I'm confused. I've always assembled melamine cabinet boxes with 3/8" x 3/4" rabbets at top, back, and bottom of the sides. The top and bottom members then have 3/4" of particle board to particle board surface for white or yellow glue. When I looked at the existing cabinets to be matched, the plam edging of the cabinet boxes is not notched this way. Thus I assumed it had to be applied after the cabinet box was assembled.

   Edited 3/7/2008 3:39 pm ET by DonStephan

1. 
   ring | Mar 08, 2008 12:26am | #7

   Of course I can't say how those cabinets were made.  But I'm familiar with more than a few commercial productions, where the joints would be just dowels or perhaps special hardware.  What's for sure is that in a commercial cabinet shop the individual pieces are given their edgebanding by rather sophisticated and expensive machines before assembly, to avoid exactly the problems you describe in banding an assembled unit.  The need to do fast and perfect edgebanding trumps all other considerations. 

   If you look at the back of the existing cabinet you'll surely see how it was put together, no?

    David Ring

   http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e

2. 
   DonStephan | Mar 08, 2008 03:39am | #8

   Thanks again for your insight from the commercial world. No doubt you are correct that the cabinets were NOT assembled with rabbets and edged afterward. I hadn't thought of dowels or similar construction.This is one of those occasional bids I will respectfully decline to submit.DonP.S. If only I could break into the tenant's office one night and drop one of the cabinets from the wall for a peek at its knickers . . .

3. 
   [email protected] | Mar 08, 2008 10:49am | #9

   Don, read up on the "euro" 32-mm system.  All the assembly joints are doweled, or put together with KD fittings.  All the KD hardware, and the euro hinges are designed to work with the 32-mm system.  And, you can buy the melamine in 24-inch widths, with one edge applied, and the system holes already drilled. 

   There are a couple of web pages on it, that are easy to find with google. 

   The manual that Lee Valley has for their 32-mm jig system does a good job of explaining the basics, and can be downloaded from their web site. 

   I have the Lee Valley 32-mm system, have done a few cabinets with it, and will do more as the opportunity arises.  It didn't make any sense to me, until I read up on it, and then put together some rta cabinets for the office at work.  Suddenly the light went off. 

2. 
   Spalted | Mar 08, 2008 09:45pm | #10

   as another poster mentioned, it is easier and more desirable to edge lam everything first. Keep a good plan going to manage all your seems so that that black line is in the least visible place or most practical place. I never had any luck cutting the carcass parts after they were edged because the laminate is very brittle and chipped away as you crosscut the part to length. It went faster to cut carcase parts to size apply and trim flush the laminate with a straight bit. Then working from the laminate edge back into the part, block sand flush. It it important to make sure that mating laminate edges are flush and 90 degrees. If you need to face laminate something like a drawer front, then use a belt sander or stroke sander to flush the edging with the face first then apply your face veneer. Make sure you use a j-roller, you will have a hard time applying even pressure everywhere but especially at the edges where it is critical to get it right. Take your time.Is it possible to break down the cab in question? If you can break it into it's basic components you will have an easier time of it.

1. 
   DonStephan | Mar 09, 2008 05:18pm | #11

   Thanks for the additional inputs. Based on the last three or four posts, I've decided that as a practical exercise, it might be satisfying to make the requested plam-front melamine cabinets, but from a business viewpoint they don't seem an appropriate endeavor for my one person woodworking business with a focus on hardwood and veneered items. Even during a slow period. It can be difficult to walk away from dangling cash, but this small fish will swim away from that baited hook . . .

1. 
   cicero | Sep 16, 2008 10:33pm | #12

   I take mine to a shop that has the machine to do job,most charge so much a ft.

2. 
   ring | Mar 04, 2008 09:13am | #3

   Using solvent contact cement is the right way to go. There are really 2 conditions needed for getting it right:

   1. Your tablesaw gives you a perfect edge with no tearout, ready for edging.
   2. You are patient enough to glue up the edges as they should be done, and in the right order.

   Use a small trimmer with a new bit to clean off the excess. Keep the bearing free of dried adhesive that tends to stick to it.

   If you've got a big job to do, you should seriously consider sub-contracting the edgebanding out to a shop with a machine like the Holzher or other makes. The cost per foot is usually quite cheap and results will be perfect.

   David Ring

   http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e