After working in an amazingly well-equipped woodworking shop (owned by a family friend) for the past 6 years, the time has come to outfit one of my own. He’s retiring and moving somewhere warm, along with all his tools.
Now when I say “working”, I mean as a hobby and not a profession.
Anyhow, I’ve got a few pieces of furniture to make along with 30+ wood windows for my old home renovation, so I need to equip myself. I’m hoping you all can make a few recommendations.
I’m not doing this as a profession and money is a bit tight, so I’m looking for decent power tools at a low to mid cost. The place I’ve been working is so well appointed with higher end, higher capacity machines that I can’t begin to use it as an example of what to buy.
Here’s what I need:
– 6″ jointer
– Floor stand drill press
– 14-16″ bandsaw w/ re-saw capabilities (if that’s possible at this size)
– Dust collector and ceiling mounted air filter
– benchtop planer
– Router table w/ fence for use on, among other things – creating the sash and muntin profiles for the windows
I have a decent Delta tablesaw w/ unifence, a nice DeWalt Sliding Compound Miter Saw, a Multimaster, a handful of Lie-Nielsen planes, and a Domino. Got plenty of clamps and other assorted goodies, but the list above is still going to set me back more than I’d hope.
I’ve been looking at Grizzly’s lower cost tools and wonder if they are worth the low cost for someone in my shoes? Any other brands you’d recommend without breaking the bank? Am I missing any tools that should be obvious to me?
Edited 6/25/2009 10:09 pm by pino
Replies
I have the grizzly 17" bandsaw for several years and its been a great tool. As to your jointer, go with an 8" minimum or you will regret it. Again I have a grizzly 12' but and 8" would be fine as well. I had a 6" for years and was constantly frustrated.
The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Renaldus Magnus
Thanks. I was wondering about that one. The shop I've been fortunate enough to work in has a 12" Delta, way beyond my budget.I'll see if I can spring for an 8" Grizzly or something similar.
You never did mention budget what exactly is your budget. That could help you decide on some trade offs. When I got back into woodworking I had a set pool of money and needed everything (had a shopsmith & 6" delta jointer junk). For what I could buy a laguna bandsaw I got my TS & BS. I saved a while (couple years) for the 12" jointer but that was still a good buy at 1200 in my opinion. Craigs lists are another good way but be carefull you could get a pig in a poke. For me the grizzly was a good solution and has proven well. I'm going on 5 years with the TS and zero issues and it's been moved twice. Once from east coast to midwest and now back to the east coast, and still works fine. I'd love to have the new version with built in riving knife but just cant justify it since mines cutting fine. Good luck on the quest. The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Renaldus Magnus
Don't yet know what my budget will be, that's kinda of why I came asking here. I know the sky is the limit, that good machines cost good money, and that they are worth the extra investment. That said, we have a big unexpected expense coming up in that my wife is undergoing surgery if a few weeks. Being self-employed, my portions is $10K out of pocket.I'm not complaining, just saying that I need to be as lean as possible on outfitting my shop given this added expense and the current financial environment.Having the luxury of working in someone else's shop for years, I never gave much thought to the cost of machinery. My dad and I would just buy the owner (a family friend) a supply of bandsaw blades, glue, sandpaper, etc a few times a year as he refused any form of payment.So now I'm kinda shocked at what really good machines cost.Bottom line - I'm no pro, need to get these windows made, and need to outfit myself at the lowest possible cost.Grizzly seems to come up often, so I'll be looking closely atthat.
First off, hope the wife's surgery goes ok. I've been there. My wife got serously ill and I sold my pride & Joy corvette to pay my out-of-pocket. Did not mind a bit. It was a bobble, she's my other half of me it was an easy call. That being said, I started with a budget of 2400 bucks. I take a little out of every payday (wifes got that too) and its my mad money. I'd saved for a while. I tried for a long time to grab a good deal on craigslist and e-bay but nothing that I was willing to chance on came along. I ended up at grizzly after doing a lot of research and lots of sites (sawmill creek is another good one) and all said it was worth a look. I did take a chance and have never regretted it. You get great cust service and very resonable priced products. They have some good sales and have free shipping on some. If it were me I'd start with a good TS and Jointer just so I could get my stock rough and finish myself. If you'd rather have the BS get that and get a jointer hand plane and do it old school. Beleive it or not I used that method (scrub plane + #7 jointer) for some projects rather than rip the boards down to fit on that infernal 6" jointere. Took time and sweat but got the job done. I spent years with crappy tools lowes brand portable ts and cheap blades. If you can't work with square/flat stock, its nothing but frustration. The ease with the big tools is nice and I love my 12" jointer but at the time it was only 400 more than the 8" so I found a way to make it happen, but could have got by with an 8 just fine. Anyway get what you can even if its only 1 piece at a time. My tool collection has been 20+ years in the making one-at-a-time.
Good luck!The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Renaldus Magnus
pino:
You can make your own router table. Norm at the NYW has a nice one and it's not difficult to make. It was the first thing I ever made. If not you can get a table with a stand from Rockler. That would save you time as well. The other things you'll have to shop for.
Good luck, Jim
Second what Bones said, if buying new I'd get a Grizzly jointer and a Grizzly or Steel City band saw. Don't know how much Craig's List action you get in your area of Indiana, but it's been a godsend for me here in Washington State. Just in the last 3 months, I could have outfitted your shop with everything but the floor-standing drill press.
Being outside Philadelphia, Craigslist has treated me alright too. I've been a buyer and seller and have been happy every time. My parents live in upstate NY and it's pretty much worthless there.
My old washing machine now belongs to a multinational cult after the strangest couple in the world showed up at my front door with $50, but whatever. I may never get to the moon, but it may if the whole raelian movement works out the way they plan. But I digress...No representation without taxation
Pino,
Woodcraft sells Rikon and they have a fantastic 14" bandsaw with a 13" Resaw capacity. And you don't need to buy a riser block for it. I just got the saw my self, I purchased it due to the reviews I have read about it both on FWW's site and at http://www.lumberjocks. com. And a friend has had one for just over a year, and he loves it. For the money it would be hard to do better.
At lot of guys use the Dewalt 13" planer it has 2 speeds. And it reviews really well.
Drill press, I have a Delta that I bought from a Local Machinery company in Cincinnati, that was a Reconditioned machine. I got it for a greatly reduced price. And my Jointer, the price was dropped due to a blemish in the paint. I you didn't know where to look you would have a very hard time finding it.
The other idea is keep a eye out for deals on http://www.Craigslist.com
Good luck, and have fun. Just counting your fingers when you finish for the day,
Taigert
Edited 6/26/2009 7:19 am ET by Taigert
I do not own any Grizzly tools but have used some off and on.. They have very good if not excellent tools. Hard to beat for the price I'd say. And if you are purchasing several tools, maybe they will give you a deal on shipping or other...
Love my Rikon 18" bandsaw.. And my BigBox Ridgid Table Saw.. But if buying a group of tools why not stay with just one brand to deal with.
Just me though....
Edited 6/26/2009 12:25 pm by WillGeorge
pino,
I like Grizzly, it works. The 14" bandsaw with cast iron wheels and 1.5 motor looks like a steal. I also like a radial arm floor mounted drill press..great flexibility.
You have not described the windows your going to build but I get nervous trying to shape long pieces on a router table.
I've got 30+ windows to make, some double hung, some casements, some awning. All true divided lite although I haven't decided if they'll be single glazed or sealed units.I'm working out the design now and hope to build a prototype of each by summer's end.I'm considering a shaper instead f the router table. Seems like for the ice of a fully tricked out router table I can pick up a small shaper instead. I'm just wondering if the router table might be more flexible. I've been looking at a Jointech set up with a digital lift and Smartfence. Got a friend a few hours away that has one and loves it.I'm open to advice on this one as well.
As to the shaper option, I think it depends on how you define "small". I have an old Delta Homecraft shaper (inherited from my Dad), 5/8" arbor, as I recall. Cute little machine, but it's pretty wimpy, compared even to a good 2 1/4hp router in a table.
Pino,
I feel your pain. I used to have access to an amazing shop full of industrial sized equipment (40" planer, 36" wide belt sander, 14" tablesaw, etc.). When that gravy train dried up I had to put a shop together for myself. I ended up using 3 different methods to get a decent shop set up without breaking the bank.
First, I used craigslist where I could. I had to monitor the posts on my local site and the sites for cities around me for a while, but I've managed to find an almost new dewalt hybrid ts ($600), a brand new delta 1.5hp dust collector ($175), used ridgid 12" miter saw ($130), and used 5hp craftman air compressor ($125). Some of the tools required a part or two, but you can easily order them online.
Second, I've had good luck buying reconditioned tools. All reconditioned, I've bought a 13" dewalt planer, bosch circular saw, and bosch router kit. The tools come much cheaper and have a warranty, but I've never been able to tell the difference from new. Sometimes I think reconditioned might even be better because any kinks have been worked out by a second pass through the technicians.
Third, I've bought from grizzly. As others have mentioned, their stuff is good/great for the serious hobbyist and is reasonably priced. Currently, I have an 8" jointer and a 17" bandsaw. Both have gotten a lot of work over the past 2 years and I've never regretted the purchase one bit.
Anyway, I hope some of this may help. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.
Aaron Petersen
Hi Pino: My story is much like other here, big eyes and a small budget. After reading Asa Christiana's FWW article on how to set up shop for $5000, I took that as a challange and promised myself to do it for $2,500. My plan was to budget $2500 for all of my tools, and I do mean all, basically starting from scratch. That meant buying clearance sales, loss leaders, craigslist, ebay, freebies and gifts. I promised myself I would only buy quality (IMHO) in very good condition and not pay over 50% of the original price. I've pretty well stuck to that.
It can be done, (maybe, I'll let you know), but it's a long haul strategy and frustrating at times, especially when I miss a craigslist deal or refuse to get into a bidding war on ebay. I've only bought two new tools, a Ridgid router set, my first purchase (full price before the promise) and Dewalt miter saw (40% off), close enough.
I bought used:
1. Grizzly 1023 right tilt TS (CL) that came with a Forrest II blade, Forrest dado set, Jet tenoning jig, 3 mag featherboards, and Shopfox mobile base; I bought this prior to the promise but it was by far the best deal on the list.
2. Craftsman 15" floor drill press (CL);
3. PM 8" jointer (CL);
4. Ridgid planer (CL);
5. PC 557 plate joiner (complete kit, ebay);
6. Older Dewalt RAS (amazingly a freebie, set on a Mr. Sawdust table);
7. Bosch 6" ROS (gift);
8. Oops I bought the Dewalt 1/4 sheet sander 20 years ago.
9. Grex 18ga pinner (CL brand new);
10. Dowel jig (ebay);
11. Set of nicer beveled chisels (ebay, already had a set of beater blue marples),
12. Bosch barrel grip jigsaw (sweet gift);
13. Incra 100SE miter gauge (Rocklers, just under 50% off and worth it);
14. Veritas grinder tool rest and cool wheel (gift);
15. Wixey angle finder (70% off on sale and w/ a coupon, I love a bargin);
16. Three old Stanley bench planes, a low angle block plane, and scrapers (ebay),
17. Several water stones and diamond stones (new 50% off GOOB sale) plus other smaller hand tools and supplies;
18. Tons of bar clamps, pipe clamps and wooden handscrews from Rocklers annual Christmas sales.
19. Homemade router table, work bench, outfeed table, lumber storage, and assorted workshop cabinets.
Plus all kinds of measuring tools, squares, straight edges, router bits, waxes, dyes, etc, bought when the price was right. Except for the jointer, a 1983 model, the drill press that was caked with grease, and the RAS, the used equipment was like new. Even the old stuff runs like new. All bought from fellow WW'ers, not commercial shops. I already had general carpentry DIY stuff like a circ saw, sawzall, sanders, drills, hand tools, etc. Now on the hunt for a 14" bandsaw, dust collector and a Kreg pockethole kit. After that I'm calling it good. Depending on the cost of the BS and dust collector, I should be just at $2,500. Put that in your pipe and smoke it Mr. Asa Christiana (hey just kidding).
I live in a highly populated area so CL has been working for me so far. Your results my vary. I'm just saying it feels good to buy bargins and have a shop some would envy for less than the cost of a nice family vacation, plus I saved enought for that family vacation. You can do it. Sorry, didn't mean to hijack your post. Best of luck.
Edited 7/13/2009 1:46 am ET by stillfigurinitout
Hey, thanks for the input, I think I'll take that same challenge myself. Gonna need to as my wife's upcoming surgery is going to cost me more than the $10K out-of-pocket max I expected.I've started looking for a used 8" jointer on the recommendation of others here. Also made my first purchase, a used Festool Domino complete set up for only $400. A guy bought it, used it on one project, then took a job overseas. Decided to sell it cheap and offered it to a friend who declined, but thought of me.I'm hoping to have my set-up done by November, so I can start work on these windows once the Chicago cold sets in.I'll report back with pics once I'm set up, surely needing more advice from the good folks here at Knots.Thanks to all.
Agree entirely on 8" jointer. I started with a 6", and found myself constantly splitting wood so it would fit. That 6" Delta and a Delta benchtop mortiser went to a local jr high school wood shop, to make room for an 8" Pmatic and Pmatic mortiser. Live and learn. Would have gone bigger on jointer, but that shop was in basement - thru garage, thru kitchen, right turn, down the stairs. 10" would never have made it.
In outfitting a shop on a tight budget, I'd consider $400 for the domino kit an extravagant purchase and not in keeping with the larger objective. You could have purchased a good used contractor-style table saw for that. With a budget of $2500, you just spent 16% of your budget on a non-essential tool(IMHO).
You need three tools to build windows: tablesaw, jointer and shaper. Sash cutters for the shaper. That's it. OK, maybe a random orbit sander. But a domino? Not sure about that. It would be way down on my list. I'd do dowels, M&T, or biscuits, depending on the application.
Sell the domino for a profit and buy something else you really need.
You sure my wife didn't put you up to posting that? :)I didn't really buy the Domino with the windows in mind. It was a bit of an impulse buy, but it'll come if handy when building my new dining room set. I've already used it to knock out a dozen wooden screen windows for my father-in-law.Back to my windows, would you recommend a shaper over a router table set up and if so why? I've been eyeing a Jointech table, fence, and digital lift set up that a friend owns. He's thinking of selling it as hes fallen on tough times. I think I can pick it up for $500 and I already own a 3 HP PC router.
I have both a router table with a jointech lift and a 3 hp delta shaper. In making doors and sashes, I go to the shaper. It has the heft, mass and power to make the required cope and stick joints on thick stock like a door or window sash. The router table excels at template routing and small or curved moldings. While you can do cope and stick joints on a router table, it takes more time, and perhaps multiple passes to achieve adequate depth of cut. If I were making 20 windows, I'd be running lots of stock with a feeder on the shaper, standardizing the window design as much as possible to create a minimum of required profiles.
Hi - FYI the link below is for a Delta contractor saw for free- It is a long way from you, but sometimes a deal is too good -depending on your perspective. Good luck. Listed on Craigslist on the Fairfield, Connecticut site on July 15, 2009.FREE Delta 10" Contractor Table Saw (Stamford)Reply to: [email protected] [Errors when replying to ads?]
Date: 2009-07-15, 1:48PM EDTFREE Delta 10" contractor saw with UniFence. Just come and pick it up in Stamford. I bought a new saw and this one is in my way. Everything works great except the casting that controls the miter is broken. Works perfectly at 90 degrees or buy the casting and fix it for a perfect saw. Location: Stamford, CT
it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
Where are you located?
Bruce"A man's got to know his limitations." Dirty Harry Calahan
Hi Wingdoctor:
I'm in the Houston area. I've seen some really good deals lately on CL in Austin and Dallas areas, and I've been tempted to travel, but I stay local. The problem w/ CL, at least in this area, is that it's first come first serve. There may be a promise made to hold an item till you can get there, but if someone else shows up first with the cash, it's theirs. It's an unwritten rule of CL here. I don't take it personal anymore :>Q and a good deal goes lightening fast. That's why now I don't drive much over 50 miles to made a purchase.
Damn! You should be the budget director for out new President here in the USA!
I get my inspiration from my better half. My wife invented frugal. She taught me the saying "never buy retail". I think she is hard wired. She did buy a dyson vacuum recently, which just about floored me. But to her credit, she bought a new last year's model at about 40% off. She's my hero! Thanks
Pino:
I don't think I've ever purchased a new stationary machine and honestly have a shop fullof large heavy old equipment that runs 6 days a week and I've spent far less than I might have had I purchased new consumer equipment. Now of course this has occured over the past 20 years so the strategy is likely not one that could be achieved in a few weeks or months. Still I would get the word out to area woodworkers that you're in teh market, you just might be surprised. I've got a big old Moak 24" jointer that I got for the price of hauling it off. Hubby and I painted it and cleaned up the table surfaces and plugged it in. I'ts been hard at work for nearly 3 years now.
Another approach you could take if you want to buy a few good machines might be to buy those you think you'll continue to use and take a class at an area college or tech center. Usually you can get some shop time and have access to the big heavy equipment. I learned to do some turning at our local community college and then conned the instructor into letting me use the lathes to turn a bunch of cabriole legs for some restaurant tables we had been commissioned to do. When we were paid for the commision we made a contribution to the school's scholarship fund and everybody won! Then a while later we ran across a woman who's turner husband had passed away and we worked a deal to buy his equipment and now we do our turning on a really nice old paternmaker's lathe.
Think outside the box and you will be surprised what you can accomplish!
Best of luck
Madison
They sure are for me.. I built my whole home with them and never needed a single repair in almost 9 years..
Look at Grizzly's shapers instead of a router table.. does the same thing for less money .
"Yes" to a Grizzly jointer, DP, BS, and DC, "No" to the benchtop planer....no real advantage there relative to a DW, Delta, Makita, or Ridgid.
You mention a 6" jointer and a lunch-box planer.
I would give serious consideration to a "combo" machine. I have a MiniMax FS30. The jointer is 12" (looks like the flight deck of a carrier) and matches the 12" thickness planer. There are several other makes on the market beside MM but I am very happy with mine.
Good luck. I envy the excitement you will feel as each additional item arrives at the door.
Frosty
"I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922
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