Replies

1. 
   Lataxe | Jun 21, 2009 11:49pm | #1

   Shoe,

   For that bench I made, I ened up mixing/supplying some goo for the allotment lads & lasses to slap on.  They would nivver get around to making up or buying their own finish.  Also, the finish has to be dead-easy to put on.  So....

   The goo I make for them is:

   • 2 parts any ole tung-based oil with driers and UV inhibitor in it.  Liberon garden-furniture, decking or similar oil is what I use.
   • 1 part teak-coloured spirit dye.  This is just to counteract any greying that might have happened on the bench because them allotmenters haven't got around to slapping on the goo before weather-fade happens.
   • 1 part Cuprinol, which is a very light, oil-based, anti fungal liquid.

   This mixture can be slapped on with a big brush.  It keeps the colour of the timber there (dye); stops stuff growing on the surface (Cuprinol) and holds back the worst of the surface-checking of the wood (oil).  The volatile Cuprinol and the driers in the oil means the goo can be slapped on but then just left to dry off (takes about 48 hours) - no wiping off, which them allotment rascals wouldn't get around to.

   This protection is quite basic but easy to apply.  It doesn't stop some fading and some surface checking, especially if the goo-applications aren't made regularly (about once every couple of months).

   Lataxe

1. 
   forestgirl | Jun 22, 2009 12:12am | #2

   Ow.  What the heck is an "allotment lad" (or lass).  You've stumped me on that one, Lataxe!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

1. 
   Shoemaker1 | Jun 22, 2009 02:05am | #3

   Ahh yes what is an allotment? seems Queen Liz is planting Allotments round the Royal Palace and the first lady had planted a garden at the White house. first time since, oops sbrain fart FDR? Get this massive amount of trivia off CBC radio. Any way Thanks for the reply. Lataxe. would like something I don't have to put on monthley. But I am in dry climite, except for the last few days of Massive rain and thunderstorms. Power outages and winds that cost me two trees one pulled out and one 50 footer split right up it's middle. Last night was a 6 hour lightning show.
   I looked at my current for profit landscape project today it was a wee swimming pool. But if I would have laid any pavers they would have washed out anyway unless totally done and tamped. 6 inches of rain in 6 hours has a way of remodeling nature and man powered efforts.

2. 
   Lataxe | Jun 22, 2009 12:13pm | #5

   Girl,

   You are a lass or lassie, of course. Also "a lovely young Colleen" (LYC). 

   "Lass" and "lad" are used in Scroatland and the north end of England in lieau of "young woman or man".  Since we in the Western world must all now remain young, even at age 60 like moi, the term may be bandied-about with abandon. 

   The Irish employ the LYC phraseology.  Naturally, all women are young and lovely, apart from them as goes into politics or certain other degrading professions, such as selling expensive, ineffective and unnecesary face-improvement goo on the telly.  (Why would all the LYCs need to look any lovelier)?

   I mentions "Colleen" as this is the given-name of my own fair ladywife, or the LYC as she is known to all hereabouts.

   So, an "allotment lass" is one found buggerin' about with soil and veggies down in a communal growing plot divided feudal-fashion into strips of land that are temporarily cultivated by grower-tenants (allotments).  As the growers get old or bored, they move orf to the gimmery, or to another pursuit; and a new allotment tenant arrives.

   The rents (the land is usually owned by local government on behalf of all us citizens) are peppercorn - a few quid per year.  There is much sharing, atween the plot-tenders, of seed and expertise; much swapping of surplus veggies and fruit.

   Yes, it's another branch of that evil British Socialism!  Fetch the acountants and land-thieves!  We cannae have free lunches, especially of home-grown veggies! The peasants will get ideas above their station!!   :-)

   Here is a pic of the LYC perched on that bench (another free lunch from this socialist divil to the allotment lot, undermining the profits of bench-sellers everywhere).  In the background you can see the veggies and even some flowers growing (buncha hippies).  If you listen very attentively, you will hear them veggies growing, as the weather has been ideal for it this past month or so. Already I am going pink through eating 35llbs of strawberries every night.

   View Image

   Lataxe, writing to you from Paradise.

1. 
   AZMO | Jun 23, 2009 03:20am | #27

   Sir David Lataxe Crosby,

   Nutin wrong with a few stragglin leftover hippies growin some flowers. Mind you, if you were a clever lad they would be saving some special extra large and fragrant ones for you to present to "The LYC". Brownie points, last I heard they have lots of value, even in Paradise....

   Brownie Scrounging Hippy Dog Morgan                  <!----><!----><!---->

   -----------_o

   ---------_'-,>

   -------(*)/ (*)   http://www.EarthArtLandscape.com

1. 
   Lataxe | Jun 23, 2009 09:42pm | #31

   Morgan,

   I haz a bone to pick with thee!

   When you mentioned that Specialized Roubaix bicycle I went off a-searching-oh to see what the thangs had to offer.  It wasnae the road bike that hooked my iye but this gem:

   View Image

   Ooooh!  That is a precious thing and I wants it, I does.

   Howivver, I am just a poor pensioner so send donations of dollars immediately to "Lataxe' shiney toy collection, Auld Gimmers Heyday Charity, Galgate, Angland.  Don't forget to add a few cents for the mudguards.

   Lataxe, who has been out testing a bridle path or two today on a mere mountain bike, whilst buying a gutter-log.

2. 
   SteveSchoene | Jun 23, 2009 11:09pm | #32

   Sorry, Gollum,  Bilbo must cast it into the fiery pit.   

3. 
   AZMO | Jun 24, 2009 01:42am | #35

   Sure, its a purty thing right now. A few bridle paths and some good Anglish Muck and she won't be so shiny and nice lookin. Now dont' be settin your sites on things like this, when you hit sticky spots you have pick em up and RUN with them. Now why oh why would I want to RUN up a hill carrying my bike... Macks no sense it does not.

   Nope you need on of these things to ride rocks and scree and dodge the cholla, now this will make grown men giggle like a wee lad on his first bike ride. I will save one here for ya to try out on the hills behind my house, jus take your whatever pounds you get selling flowers and vegatables and fly direct to Phoenix. I do recomend waitin just a few more months for the weather to be a bit more moderate.

   View Image

                     <!----><!----><!---->

   -----------_o

   ---------_'-,>

   -------(*)/ (*)   http://www.EarthArtLandscape.com

   Edited 6/23/2009 6:45 pm by AZMO

   
4. 
   Lataxe | Jun 24, 2009 11:49am | #36

   Morgan,

   Aieeeee!  This thread is turning into cycle-porn!!

   Still, we lads must have an illicit pleasure or two otherwise the testosterone will drive us down to the pub looking for a fight.  I cannot afford the dental bills.

   As to getting mucky - I confess to being something of a fair-weather cyclist as I am basically delicate and shy.  Yesterday's outing was my ideal - sun, a cool breeze off the lake, mountains glimmering in the distant haze and plenty of splendid distractions, such as the ice cream parlour in Coniston, which I will recommend to all concerning the quality of its dairy foods and also the cappucino.

   There is a fine fashion parade passing the outdoor tables of that cafe, although one must put on the dark glass to avoid more obvious staring.  Also, jaw-drop is a bit of a giveaway.  But I digress.

   Today is an "ex Royal Marine" day.  This is where I go to be tortured aerobically by a chap who lies about how long it is going to hurt as well as how much.  What do they do to them in them Nissen huts, to make them behave so badly toward their fellow humans?

   Lataxe, bike fetishist.

    

2. 
   forestgirl | Jun 23, 2009 08:08am | #29

   Thank you, Lataxe, for the enlightenment you bring and the fetching photograph of your LYC surrounded by such vigorous evidence of Mother Nature's best side. 

   "...even at age 60 like moi, the term may be bandied-about with abandon."  I like that! being right on your heels age-wise. ;-)forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

1. 
   Shoemaker1 | Jun 23, 2009 09:02pm | #30

   Steve
   I was in the big city yesterday. Looked around and found Sikkens Marine Varnish $70 a quart.
   So I remembered Cloverdale paints(a late friend of mine used to manage the store)
   So I called them. I then went to there web site and found a product called Sunfast.So I called on of the technical folks and he mentioned now they have a waterborne version. So they are going to get some out here for me to try. Fast recoat time. vs the solvent base which he said was very flexable.
   He also mentioned staining with cedar. So i assured him I was going to precoat all the parts then recoat the fastner heads, and use corrosion proof screws. He thought I had it well planned out. So now I'm going to pace till some product shows up .
   I would post a link but can't fiqure out how to do it.
   Google Cloverdale Paints
   Thanks

2. 
   SteveSchoene | Jun 23, 2009 11:29pm | #34

   Sikkens makes several marine products.  The most widely available is Cetol Marine.  It is translucent and comes in several yachting relevant shades.  There is also a clear gloss, but that is designed to go over the colored Cetol to make it look  more like varnish.  Cetol works fairly well, but doesn't really look like varnish, and is harder to strip and refinish when that is neaded. 

   Sikkens also does make a traditional Marine Varnish, that I haven't seen.  I'd expect it to perform well, but can't really make an informed comparison. 

   By the way, to post a link, just type the url, including the www , you will see it turn color and become a link.  I don't know Cloverdale, or Sunfast.  I would be very dubious about waterborne marine coatings.

    

2. 
   SteveSchoene | Jun 22, 2009 04:51am | #4

   Your first step should be to thoroughly impregnate the ground contact surfaces with epoxy. 

   Your northern latitude will help, despite the longer days of summer.  Will this bench be in full sun all day, or will it be shaded for some or all of the day? 

   What kind of look are you going after?  So you want the fir and the cedar to look the same in the end? 

3. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Jun 22, 2009 12:57pm | #6

   Shoeman,

   I also bought a gallon of the Cabots Austarialian timber oil and after seeing several examples after a year of exposure decided against it.  The examples I saw were not too impressive to me.  I suspect there could be all kinds of reasons for this, perhaps not related to the finish itself.

   For mine I chose to use boiled linseed oil as a first coat and let it dry for several days, wiping off any excess as it dried.  I then applied two thin coats of Cabots Spar Varnish, the third will be applied if it ever stops raining!  The humidity right now is akin to being in an acquarium................

   A believer in KISSIT (Keep It Simple or I'll Stupid IT,

   Bob @ Kidderville Acres

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

1. 
   Shoemaker1 | Jun 22, 2009 03:26pm | #7

   Thanks for that I am going to go with BLO.
   Steve I had thought of epoxy for the feet and will do that also. I am after as natual finish as possible. I don't mind some amber effects. Probably in the sun most of the day.Lataxe My lady wife is also named Colleen. HMMMM
   and thank you fort explaining allotments, that pic shows a large area. How big?

1. 
   Lataxe | Jun 22, 2009 04:06pm | #8

   Shoe,

   Obviously, we both knows an LYC when we sees one!  Lads of taste and discernment, us.

   Those allotment strips vary in size a little but Colleen's is a typical example at 12 feet wide by 150 feet long.  The plots are separated by a grass strip of around 1 yard wide, with a central grass area of some 10 yards wide for access by trucks carrying loads of compost (also communally bought and shared).  There are 20 lots, as I recall,  They are adjacent to the (communal) village playing fields - football, cricket, bowling and so forth.

   The allotment area is a suntrap bounded by those playing fields, two ancient farm hedges and the railway embankment.  The railway is the mainline from that London to western Scroatland so one may be a trainspotter as well as a gardener.  In summer weekends there is a steam-hauled train pulling old pullman coaches full of happy nostalgists going for a trip to the English Lake District.

   I did say it was Paradise.  :-)

   Lataxe

1. 
   Samson | Jun 22, 2009 05:20pm | #11

   In Banbridge Town in the County DownOne morning last July,From a boreen green came a sweet colleenAnd she smiled as she passed me by.She looked so sweet fronn her two bare feetTo the sheen of her nut brown hair.Such a coaxing elf, sure I shook myselfFor to see I was really there.Chorus:From Bantry Bay up to Derry Quay andFrom Galway to Dublin Town,No maid I've seen like the brown colleenThat I met in the County Down.As she onward sped, sure I scratched my head,And I looked with a feelin' rare,And I say's, say's I, to a passer-by,"Whose the maid with the nut brown hair"?He smiled at me and he says's, say's he,"That's the gem of Ireland's crown.Young Rosie McCann from the banks of the Bann,She's the star of the County Down".Chorus:From Bantry Bay up to Derry Ouay andFrom Galway to Dublin Town,No maid I've seen like the fair colleenThat I met in the County Down.At the Harvest Fair she'll be surely thereAnd I'll dress in my Sunday clothes,With my shoes shone bright and my hat cockedRight for a smile from my nut brown rose.No pipe I'll smoke, no horse I'll yokeTill my plough turns rust coloured brown.Till a smiling bride, by my own firesideSits the star of the County Down.

1. 
   Lataxe | Jun 22, 2009 06:55pm | #20

   Sean, ye rascal!

   Ye've met the ladywife down at the Galgate Fair perhaps; or at the Annual Show, where she judges Victoria sponges, childrens' crafts and the lead fairy cakes?  (She enters the veggie competitions so is banned from the judges' podium when it comes to 'warding the rosettes for biggest leek or carrot shaped most like a todger).

   And it is the case that I nivver touch a pipe not a plough these days, despite the fact that I have her more or less well-married and yoked to my fireside (when she ain't growing veggies or cookin' 'em).

   Angels musta smiled on me, gawd-knows why.  :-)

   Lataxe, a spoilt lad.

   Edited 6/22/2009 11:58 am ET by Lataxe

2. 
   SteveSchoene | Jun 22, 2009 05:33pm | #12

   When, if ever, it stops raining, I would recommend you continue with more coats of spar varnish.  (total to equal 6-7)  Thickness of the film is what gives the UV absorbers the capacity to protect the wood.  I'd also recommend you shift to a good marine spar varnish.  Epifanes Gloss Clear is great.  In the same league are Interlux Schooner and Pettit Captain's.  Once you have started down the spar varnish road, you ought to do it well.  Also remember, that if this is in the sun you will need to scuff sand each year and add a "booster" coat.  Varnish is a high maintenance finish outdoors, to be sure. 

1. 
   whitedogstr8leg | Jun 22, 2009 05:52pm | #14

   One "trick" around these parts is to use a good quality oil paint BASE.   It's the "base" one gets BEFORE the store adds the "tints" to colour the paint.  Base will dry clear but will still protect the wood like regular paint. Just a thought.

    

    

   St. Patrick drove out the snakes here, but he gave us the English instead.  Talk about a "Mixed blessing".

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Jun 22, 2009 06:11pm | #16

   That idea is bandied about quite a bit.  I've seen a few anecdotes about it's effectiveness, but frankly I am quite dubious, especially in comparison with true marine spar varnish. 

   Paint is expected to have enough pigment to make it opaque.  Therefore manufacturers would not include the UV absorbers that protect the wood under the paint.  They might include the different variety of UV protectants that protect the paint resins on the surface.  They might include a mildewcide, which won't be relevant in full sun, but will in shaded areas. 

   Exterior oil based trim paint is formulated to sell closer to $35 or $40 per GALLON, while marine spar varnish is designed to sell at 4 times that price range.  There just isn't a free lunch.  If this were such a great exterior clear finish the manufacturers would be eager to sell it.  But you don't see anything that might be such a product repackaged for marine use.

   Also, be aware that not all brands of oil based deep color paint base would dry clear.  (And, it's only the deep color variety that even might.) The base for lighter shades would all have some degree of white pigment already in it and would not dry clear. 

2. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Jun 22, 2009 11:13pm | #25

   Steve,

   A  coupla questions.

   When I re-glazed some old wood windows it was recommended that I oil (BLO) the wood before applying the glazing.  I'm assuming that this is to keep the wood from absorbing the oil in the putty and thus the putty stays soft?  Also it is quite common to apply BLO to bare wood to enhance the figure of the wood.  I was trying for the latter via the use of BLO.

   I should be able to scuff sand the spar varnish then apply Epifanes over it, yes?  I might consider switching if prep is necessary next spring.  The furniture will be stored inside out of the weather for winter.

   Yes I plan on more coats of the spar varnish.  It's been so wet and humid I decided to wait for some drier weather soon, mebbe Thursday this week!

   Regards,

   Bob @ Kidderville Acres

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

   Edited 6/22/2009 4:15 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres

1. 
   Shoemaker1 | Jun 23, 2009 01:56am | #26

   Thanks for the input.
   I'll look to see if there is a Sikkens dealer in Regina. Not a place famous for it's marine stores.How's the 'Chuck we spent our first year married there and returned for the tornado, Stayed at West Edmonton Mall that day, i'll never forget.
   I missed that issue 205 but picked up the new one today.Might be easier to make a cover for the bench.
   Steve are there any epoxies that can be applied that have UV absorbers?

1. 
   Don01 | Jun 23, 2009 03:23am | #28

   Shoe,
   Life near the Chuck is good, life in the Chuck is busy - very busy as all large cities are.I got my Sikkens at Windsor Plywood and have seen it at the Benjamin Moore outlets. They do not all carry the full range - mostly the deck coatings.
   I believe Sherwin Williams carry Epifanes (or can get it) which is very good as well. Epifanes encourage you to thin down the first coat or 2 50% to ensure good penetration and bonding of subsequent coats.Don

2. 
   SteveSchoene | Jun 23, 2009 11:11pm | #33

   Yes, you can apply the Epifanes over sound spar varnish of another brand.  Scuff sanding--yes. 

4. 
   ASK | Jun 22, 2009 04:36pm | #9

   I emailed Thompson's to see if they had a product which would protect the wood and let it grey naturally. They recommended contacting Penofin (800) 736-6346  and/or The Sikkens Company 1-800-833-7288.

   Haven't done either yet. I got the slats cut for a 4' bench, Ipe, and for the legs I got clear cedar. I am making new patterns for the legs from the drawing I did which didn't exactly fit the patterns I got from Larry. My nonsense not his.

   ASK

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Jun 22, 2009 05:39pm | #13

   For the purpose of protecting while greying, Cabot has a product call "Bleaching Oil"  The caveat here is that the wood you put it on must be a good outdoor wood.  White cedar will go to a nice silverly grey,  Western red cedar, with get rather dark grey, teak if particular nice grey, ipe is nice too.  White oak is also OK outdoors, but red oak is very bad. 

1. 
   Shoemaker1 | Jun 22, 2009 06:08pm | #15

   Steve exactly what are these UV absorbers we talk about? Can I just give a shot of SPF 50 sunscreen on it LOL.
   Can we buy these absorbers across the counter and add to our home brew?I really don't want it to grey out to much and I will do annual touch ups.Samson thanks for that poem that was great!! Yup happen pretty much that way but she was wearing shoes. Some 32 years ago.

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Jun 22, 2009 06:20pm | #17

   No, UV absorbers can't be bought over the counter. And, you can't home brew a product to use them if they were.  Oil/varnish mixes which you might make at home can't really have meaningful UV protection because they can never be allowed to accumulate a film on the surface since it would be too soft to be practical.  You can buy mildewcides to add to finishes. 

   And, of course, cooking oil and resin together to make varnish is not an "at home" project--dangerous in the extreme. 

   By the way, Lataxe has a big advantage over us.  Regina, Saskatchewan. is south of London England, giving those folks on that side of the pond less intense sunshine, even if there are longer summertime days. 

1. 
   Shoemaker1 | Jun 22, 2009 06:30pm | #18

   Thanks again. So will BLO followed buy varnish hold up?
   I,m going into the big city today so I will see what is up. and no I will not cook brew at home. I learned at 16 while distilling wine on a natural gas stove. Moved real quick no damage.
   but had to iron the formica counter top down before parents got home.

2. 
   SteveSchoene | Jun 22, 2009 08:56pm | #21

   The BLO is pretty much irrelevant in this situation.  By itself it does very little, under and oil based varnish you would be unlikely to see any difference.  Won't hurt if you have already done it.  If you like sitting on a varnished bench, then go with a good marine varnish.  All varnishes are not alike. Big difference between consumer grade varnishes you might find in a big box store or paint store.  The marine spar varnishes are almost only found at boating supply stores.

2. 
   ASK | Jun 22, 2009 06:43pm | #19

   Steve,

   Since I am using Ipe and cedar (guess I should find out which type it is) the Cabot might be an option.

   Thanks

   ASK

5. 
   stanley2 | Jun 22, 2009 05:17pm | #10

   For exterior work I follow the lead of log house builders.  There are several products available from manufacturers serving that market.  I am using Sikkens Cetol SRD on cedar siding and a deck.  As best as I can tell there is no easy one-time finish that will defeat what the climate brings without periodic maintenance.

6. 
   Don01 | Jun 22, 2009 09:04pm | #22

   Shoe,
   Being just outside of Edmonton I can tell you that any oil other than that black crude Domtar supply for railroad ties and power poles will not last. So if you have nothing better to do than reapplying oil on wood, then go for it. I bought a couple of those iron & chinese oak garden benches - mainly for the iron end pieces. I have played with some oil products on the "oak" for kicks and they just do not stand up more than a few weeks. I have a can of Sikkens marine to try this summer. I made some teak pieces for a friends sailboat and caoated with the Sikkens. I am anxious to see how those hold up this year.
   Then recent article on comparative wood finishes FWW 205 shows what happens to various finishes in different climates.

   Don

1. 
   saschafer | Jun 22, 2009 09:08pm | #23

   "...any oil other than that black crude Domtar supply for railroad ties and power poles will not last."

   Hey, even that stuff doesn't last forever.

   -Steve

    

1. 
   Don01 | Jun 22, 2009 11:09pm | #24

   Very true Steve. Don