I’m looking at a selection of oscillating edge sanders and wanting input from those who’ve purchased and used them.
Formerly, I had a RIdgid unit that combined both an oscillating drum and a belt sander, but it was a poorly made tabletop unit and not designed for heavy use.
I’m looking at the Grizzly G0563 and G0564 units, which feature a range of useful options in continuous use quality machine.
I’m surprised that there is very little information on the FWW forums, nor is there an editors’ review (John White?) of one of these versatile machines. It’s hard to believe that nobody is using one, since I find oscillating edge sanding to be a very useful feature in the workshop.
Any advice would be much appreciated.
Replies
I have the Delta 31-396 and have been very happy with it.
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
~ Denis Diderot
Formerly, I had a RIdgid unit that combined both an oscillating drum and a belt sander, but it was a poorly made tabletop unit and not designed for heavy use.
I have one them and use it almost every day! Hardly junk for the price I payed for it.
OK so I do not try to run it all day long!
And as to poorly made? I wonder? But I can live with your thoughts~
I'm glad you're having good luck with yours.I got two of them from Home Depot. The first one's motor burned up the day I took it out of the box. Within ten minutes of use, I smelled burnt windings/wirings, then I saw wisps of white smoke, and then it just quit. Returned it and got a second one. The second one's belt sander, after an hour's continuous use, refused to dismount from its drive-gear. It acted like it was epoxied into the table, and I had to use channel-lock pliers to undo the rubber-coated nut (which did wonders for the nut). This happened, again, each time I converted from the drum to the belt unit, until, finally the belt sander quit working, altogether; turned out it's little pop-metal drive gear failed, and no replacement part was available because the unit had been discontinued.This unit was well-reviewed by FWW, but that was, as always, an instance of the reviewer giving his first impressions, and not a durability, long-term, use-based assessment.I think this unit had some great ideas, which were executed in a very light-weight way. I also think the unit's dust collection was "iffy," at best, regardless of how powerful the attached dust-collection system was. I also found the after-service support from both Home Depot/Ridgid to be terrible. None of our local Home Depots (in either GA or CO) carry this unit any more, and none has replacement parts for the machine, or even sander sleeves.Design and execution of a product are two different issues. There was great versatility built into this platform, which is why is was greeted with an initial chorus of enthusiasm, but it's not a machine that's designed for heavy use. I wouldn't refer to the unit as "junk," in any case. For occasional home-owner, hobbyist use, I guess it's just fine (for some people).Most of my contractor-grade hand tools have been in use -- and bouncing around in a pickup truck -- for years, and include the usual stuff like circular saws, belt-sanders, etc. They cost about the same money, per item ($200), on average, but are much tougher and better constructed.This unit, for my money, was cheaply made and poorly supported, after the sale.Again -- I'm glad your experience has been different.Which brings me back to the purpose of the thread: Has anybody (including, hopefully, a FWW staff member) had any experience with a commercial-quality, oscillating edge sanding system, and can he offer any thoughts, experience, or advice.Edited 6/30/2009 8:18 am ET by sasquatch55
Edited 6/30/2009 8:32 am ET by sasquatch55
Which brings us back to the purpose of the thread: Has anybody (including a FWW staff member) had any experience with a commercial-quality, oscillating edge sanding system, and can he offer any thoughts, experience, or advice.
Sorry.. I tend to reply with my foot in my mouth. No hate here to you at all.
Have a great day!
AND I just loved your tactful reply to me!
Thank You.. I hope you find a good one!
I didn't get "hate" -- just somebody with a different viewpoint and experience.Thanks for your input.I'm perplexed, to be honest with you, that there haven't been more sanding systems reviewed by FWW. Dozens of thickness planers (over and over), drill presses, table-saws, etc. Some types of hand tools (e.g., planes and chisels) have been reviewed many, many times in this magazine, by a variety of staff and contributors. Even floor-model mortising machines have been reviewed, and they are hardly an item found in the average hobbyist's shop.I am one of FWW's charter subscribers and have every issue of both FWW and FHB, but stationary (floor model) sanding machines are virtually invisible in either/both of these publications. Multi-thousand dollar thickness planers and table saws get reviewed, routinely, why not a commercial quality sanding system for the serious woodworker or small shop?
I've used the extremely heavy duty oscillating edge sanders such as Oakley, etc in factories as well as medium duty non-oscillating edge sanders made by progress in the same shops. By slighty angling the table and moving the wood you can duplicate the the finish of an oscillating edge sander with a non oscillating sander. No one can tell the difference but your wallet would know.
Most of the woodworking machines aren't covered by the hobby mags like FWW because most of the people haven't been exposed to these tools. One of the best kept and affordable sanders is a stoke sander and they were briefly covered in the early issues of FWW but the drum sander kind of pushed the stroke to the side but not by folks who have used them. They are in custom metal working and woodshops. We had four different types of stroke sanders and one 36" widebelt in one shop. Many types of tools are still in Grizzly, Minimax but I would bet most folks don't know how to begin to use them never mind even maximizing their full potential.
Thanks, Rick, for your response.I agree with most of what you wrote.After using an oscillating drum and belt, however, I would never go back to a fixed-spindle. Work-piece stays cooler, sanding media stays cleaner and lasts longer, and the wood/metal doesn't get "grooved" by the abrasive.I also understand your statement (and agree) that most woodworking magazines don't cover these sorts of machines, because most hobbyists A) don't know about them, and B) wouldn't buy them as part of their basic tool complement.But FWW is a magazine aimed at a more sophisticated market (look at its price!), and I would think its editors would occasionally go out on a limb (see: Floor model mortising machine) and review an item that isn't necessarily in Ward Cleaver's garage. Stationary sanding machines, as a class, have been almost completely ignored, and it's hard to make curvilinear projects without some sort of drum sanding.An upside-down belt sander can only carry you so far...Most of the serious bloggers who occasionally write for FWW and produce video (e.g., Mark Mark Spagnuolo "Wood Whisperer") have such equipment in their shops and feature its use.Edited 6/30/2009 8:59 am ET by sasquatch55
Edited 6/30/2009 9:25 am ET by sasquatch55
After using an oscillating drum and belt, however, I would never go back to a fixed-spindle. Work-piece stays cooler, sanding media stays cleaner and lasts longer, and the wood/metal doesn't get "grooved" by the abrasive.
By angling the table slightly you don't get that grooved linear finish associated with non-oscillating sanders. I do agree that the oscillation keeps it cooler and lasts longer but you were talking about a Rigid which is a the beginning of the pile of oscillating edge sanders as a starting point. For a hobbyist or small small shop a Vega, Progress, Woodtek non-oscillating sander is a huge step up.
I have no idea of your intentions or status...pro or hobby? You can always upgrade and sell your old machine. I always find it amusing that folks want to buy the perfect machine once. I've bought and sold machines over the years and even down graded for various reasons as needed, space, moving, etc.
The non-oscillating Vega can be converted to an oscillating sander later on as well.
I am a semi-retired remodeling contractor, living in the middle of nowhere, Colorado (Missouri Heights). I am about 4 hours from Denver and about an hour and a half from Grand Junction. The nearest town (20 miles) is Carbondale, Pop. 5,000?).I've spent my whole life working wood, both in remodeling and in making all the case goods in my home and for the kids. Just finished making a pair of pencil-post beds for my son and daughter. Dunno whether you'd characterize me as "pro," but I'm probably something other than a "hobbyist." Some things resist being put in cubbyholes.I learned, forty-something years ago, the wisdom of trying to buy the best quality tool I could afford. I am too far from civilization to conveniently buy/sell tools, and that's not my idea of a rewarding pursuit, anyway. But -- that's why they make left-handed shovels, right? Everybody has a different need, and a different twist on how they want to spend their time...I have nothing against your approach, either. But, I'm trying to equip a fairly sizable shop (1200 sq ft) with good quality tools -- not necessarily "the best" or most expensive (e.g., the Griz looks good), but not something that's going to break down and leave me in the lurch the way that little RIdgid did, twice.Thanks for you advice.I cast and work metals, too. And and oscillating sander really helps, for instance, when working with metal parts and burnishing metal inlays.
Well that's certainly useful information to put on your profile. I don't even bother to post for the most part because I would give entirely different info to different people depending on the background. Folks should put something in their profile.
I've worked in custom shops and factories as well as a service tech for a tool dealer so I've used and repaired tools most folks wouldn't imagine. Also did a stint as a Metalsmith involved with casting and custom metal fabrication for custom furniture hardware and Architectural Jewelry.
I have an older -Max brand (US made) full Oscillating 12 spindles, tilting table very quiet & smooth running, I bought it at an Auction , I am happy with it but after Using a Kindt Collins - 2 speed ranges tilting Arbour instead of table & you can turn off the Oscillation, I think I would like the upgrade if I had the chance, I have bid on a couple locally but no luck.
I have the Rigid Oscillating Edge Sander and have used it quite a bit. It has held up to quite a bit of sanding. I probably will buy another one when this one wears out. Domer
I have had the Clayton 140 and what was the Powermatic(I can't remember the model #) but is now made and marketed as a JET tool. Both get the job done, the Jet at a lower price and the bed tilted. The Clayton ran super smooth and was extremely well made however I don't recall the spindle or bed tilting.
Are you using the belt sanding attachment, too, or just the spindle for the most part? The issues that I had with the machines were all related to the belt sander attachment, which I think is insufficiently engineered for the stresses it encounters. Both units developed bad vibrations after use with the belt sander, whereas they seemed okay when I was just using the spindle sander.
I have only used the spindle sander a few times. I almost always use the belt sander. Usually, I can use the end of the belt sander for what I need for a spindle sander. The screw that keeps the belt sander gets tightened while you use the belt sander and it is a pain to get off is part of the reason I don't use the spindle sander much.I am an amateur but do quite a bit of furniture building use the Rigid on almost every piece I build. I do hook it up to a dust collector most of the time and try to vacuum it out regularly. I don't know if that makes any difference or not.The only problem I have had with it was when it was pretty new, the up and down adjustment would stick a little and I had to tap the top of the sanding belt attachment to get it to adjust. It seems to be better now.I have seen it in the background of several of the Fine Woodworking contributors shops in their videos. I looked at several spindle sanders before buying the Rigid but did not see anything comparable at anywhere near the price. I have been happy with it.Domer
Thanks for the reply. I needed to switch back and forth -- sometimes several times a day -- which is why the tightening issue became such a deal-breaker for me. There is no way that small rubber nut can be released, by hand, once the belt sander has heated up the oscillating spindle and that heat and vibration has been transferred to the nut. It's on there like it was covered with red thread-locker. I resorted to channel locks (wrapped around a terry-cloth towel) the first few times, but the rubber got stripped off the nut, very quickly, and then the nut's shoulders got rounded over. If you look on the bottom of your belt-sander's drum, you'll see a light, pot-metal casting that's shaped like a star, and it is what seats over the spindles drive sprocket. On my unit (the second one) that small star shattered and rendered the belt sander inoperable.I think the Ridgid has a lot to recommend it (including a great price), but it was probably unreasonable to ask it to handle the service/duty requirements I was putting on it, day in and day out. It's not designed to handle the grind of heavy daily use.
I use channel locks to take the nut off. I have not done it enough times to completely strip off the rubber but it is dinged up.It looked like to me that you would need to spend a great deal more money to find something like the Rigid.Domer
I had a Crouch. I looked for a machine that had the ability to do inside curves on the end of the belt. I also wanted a dust hood that was effective but out of the way for doing long stock. Oscillation is the way to go for finish and belt life. I can't say that for the type of work I do and the way I do it, I found much use for an edge sander. I had a large shop, mostly 3 phase but the rent and utilities were killing me and good help was hard to find. The Crouch had to go along with a lot of machines that I don't miss.
http://www.rittermfg.com/cr-258.html
Crouch looks nice.Yeah--everything is based on what you make/do, and an edge-sanding machine has limited functionality.I noticed, though, that it meets a lot of my usage requirements, especially for projects that require curved patterns, where, recently FWW's expert contributors will go to the trouble of making an MDF template, and then going to the bandsaw, cutting out the pattern, then going to the router table and affixing the pattern to a band-sawed blank and using a flush-trim, bearing-guided bit to make a copy of the original pattern.For my money, the hours it took to do all that (unless we're talking about mass production) could be better spent doing something else, and it's much easier/faster to band-saw the two mirror sides of a curvilinear project, then tape them together and simply take them to the edge sander for final finishing. The two (or however many) pieces can be worked to "a line," and they come out ready for final hand-sanding and finish.Each to his own, I guess. In any case, this class of tools should be reviewed by the editors as a viable alternative to the router table for edge finishing and pattern/duplication.The Grizzly I was looking at is about $1500, including shipping, and I wasn't able to build my router table (with its bit collection and router lift) for anywhere near that price. Admittedly that's an unfair (apples/oranges) comparison, but there's a place in many shops for a quality edge-sanding option.
Edited 6/30/2009 9:59 am ET by sasquatch55
Gee, I thought "fine" woodworking meant that you were supposed to sand things by hand. ;-)
Since the vast majority of folks here are hobbyists (with a few exceptions, of course), I'm wondering if you might get more industrial-level input on one of the industrial woodworking forums.
"Gee, I thought "fine" woodworking meant that you were supposed to sand things by hand. ;-)"Kind of like pit-saws (instead of table saws), molding planes (instead of routers), and bow-saws (instead of band saws), right?:)(not to mention brace and bit, plus chisels for mortising, instead of mortising machines -- covered by FWW multiple times)...Edited 6/30/2009 9:51 am ET by sasquatch55
Edited 6/30/2009 9:53 am ET by sasquatch55
I went with a Vega edge sander, I have the model that doesn't oscillate. It is a very good machine and isn't priced too bad. They also have excellent customer support to answer any questions. I prefer a seperate spindle sander over using the end of my edge sander(the rollers on the end are fairly large). With the seperate spindle sander I can use a greater variety of spindle sizes according to what I am sanding. And, I have better control using the spindle sander over the using the end of the edge sander, and the dust pick up is better also.
Which spindle sander do you use?
I recently purcahsed an oscillating edge sander from LeNeave Machnery for around $800.00, it is good for light duty and I am going to sell it. I have looked at many others, the Grizzly looks good, but the Laguna edge sander looks to be a good buy. The one I have now has a 2 hp motor and that is not enough. The Laguna has a 3hp moter The only thing with the Laguna #A175020 it takes a 6x99 inch belt. The other one takes a6x89 inch belt and that is a standard size. One has to shop around to find a good price on the 99 inch one as you are into a custom belt. They sure save a lot of time, I just edge sanded about 30 bases for a job in no time.
JJC
Thanks for referencing the Laguna. It looks good, but I agree that there's an issue with the non-standard belt size. I'm going to go with the Grizzly, I think. I like the option of having both the oscillating edge sander and the spindle sanding drums, too, which the Grizzly provides. It doesn't look like the Laguna has that feature, though you could do some radius sanding on the edge of the main belt drive drum.The Grizzly's price includes shipping, which -- at least where I live -- saves (or adds with the Laguna) a couple hundred dollars.Thanks for your helpful input; I agree that this sort of machine saves a lot of time and effort, plus really increases productivity.
The 3hp Grizzly edge sander is the best buy, only about 100.00 more that the 2hp. I am leery of the 2 hp, the one I have is definitely under powered.JJC
I agree. 3 HP is the way to go.
http://www.industrialabrasives.com in PA has the lowest minimum, 2 pieces for custom belts and a low price and quick turnaround time. Do purchasing for a commercial shop so I buy a lot of tools and supplies.
Rick, appreciate your input, buddy.I've only posted here a handful of times, and -- you're right -- it's hard to address input to someone you know nothing about. Filling out "profiles" is an uncomfortable thing for some, because it can easily seem like you're thumping your chest about your accomplishments, when that's not your intention.I use this resource very sparingly, not so much for social interaction, but mostly to get specific, tool-purchase-related advice and try to get a consensus of opinion from other woodworkers who've bought/used tools before me.As others have pointed out, many of the same tools seem to get reviewed, over and over again in FWW, with other tools languishing, pretty much unnoticed. I would love to see floor model drill presses compared/reviewed, for instance. But the entire family of stationary sanding systems is one which has been egregiously overlooked by the editors.A couple of years ago, FWW even reviewed "combination machines," and this review helped me decide to buy my MiniMax FS-30, combination jointer/planer, which was one of the best decisions/purchases I've ever made.If the only criteria for deciding to review combination machines was, "Will the average FWW reader decide to purchase one of these?" I don't think the review would've ever been done. They're very expensive machines ($3,000-$4,000) -- appeal to a very limited target audience -- and most FWW readers probably end up buying a bench-top planer ($300-$400) and a cheaper, stand-alone 6" jointer ($600 - $800).Nevertheless, FWW decided to do the review, and I'm glad they did.Sanding is one of the most important aspects of woodworking, but we never seem to move much past a discussion of sandpaper types, grits, and/or hand-prep techniques, with an occasional foray into reviews of belt-sanders and random-orbital sanders, (which also has been done to death).I'm just sort of summing up my thinking on this -- not directing these comments at you, personally -- since I could be "preaching to the choir," for all I know.Thanks for your helpful advice.
FWIW, I'd agree that the editors have a difficult task when determining what tools or machines to review - particularly since the general style in woodworking magazines is to do comparative reviews of multiple items, as opposed to stand-alone reviews. The logistics involved with the larger machines has to be daunting, to say the least. Plus, there are no commonly-accepted benchmarks for woodworking machines, making the reviews quite subjective. In a "former life", I did reviews of high-end UNIX computer systems and storage at a computer magazine. We had the advantage of being able to run industry-supported benchmark programs on the systems, so some aspects of one review could be compared to another published at a different time. I also had the luxury of being able to review one system at a time, since comparative reviews didn't make sense in that context. For FWW, the line between small-shop and "production" machines probably plays a role in editor's decisions.
"For FWW, the line between small-shop and "production" machines probably plays a role in editor's decisions."Yup, I'm sure you're right.On the other hand, they've reviewed (several times) floor-mounted thickness planers that cost (with spiral head) upwards of $2,000-$3,000 when most woodworkers wouldn't/couldn't afford the space or money for those machines, and, instead default to the cheaper DeWalt-style benchtop planers.Also agree with you about the essential problem of all such reviews: The subjective nature of comparing one machine to another. With thickness planers, for instance, they've gotten around this by measuring (noise, snipe, feed-rates, ease of knife-changes, etc., etc).There are usually enough objective differences between machines to make a review worthwhile.I think it goes deeper; I think there is a bias against stationary sanders, and it's driven by ignorance of the machines' functionality, plus -- and here's a big part of it -- sanding is fundamentally "un-sexy."The average woodworker regards a hand-plane with some degree of mistrust/misgivings, because he doesn't know how to tune up a plane, doesn't know how to maintain a sharp edge on the iron, and can't noodle out how to use the plane for surfacing his stock. So, he regards a big investment in a thickness-planer as the answer to all his problems, whereas he looks at sanding and thinks, "Hell, any idiot can sand the edge of a board..." (for example) and places little emphasis on the value of a machine (like those we're discussing) which might save him many hours of frustration in preparing his projects.Personally, it's easier for me to make the case for a $1,500 investment in an oscillating edge sander (with spindle sanding attachment) than it is to spend substantially more on a floor model thickness planer (when final hand-planing, scraping, sanding will still be required), but -- again -- I think there's a commonplace bias against sanding machines that springs from ignorance among novice woodworkers.
"I think it goes deeper; I think there is a bias against stationary sanders, and it's driven by ignorance of the machines' functionality, plus -- and here's a big part of it -- sanding is fundamentally "un-sexy.""It might actually be just the opposite. The reciprocating motion might be too suggestive, and those spindles are absolutely phallic in nature. ;-)
And Freud would say " If you dream of an oscilating Spindle Sander........."
" . . . you'll spend your life fondling smooth, supple edges." ?? ;-)
Ralph,You've helped me to think of woodworking in new and disturbing ways.:)
Always glad to be of help. ;-)If I worked in a supply chain, I'd probably be at the "disturbitor" level. ;-)
sas,
Now I think you are close to the core reasons machines of this and other more production nature are not shown as much .
It is the SANDING that is objected to by the group that scrapes and says they can just look at a piece and tell if it was hand planed and scraped or sanded ,,,and that the sanded pieces look sort of "mushy" to them .
Well,,, we all have opinions , but for the custom production shop I have I could not produce the same , without sanding .
As far as the sanders go an edge sander with a spindle combo would be ideal for your needs. I do more edge sanding and use the rubber radius end of my old Rodgers combination edge sander / profile sander . For smaller curves you need the spindle .
BTW I agree totally , I have seen well built pieces that were not sanded properly and looked like trash.Sanding properly is very important as is proper use of sanders and abrasives.
regards dusty , I sand therefore I am
Dusty,I sent my pieces out to be finished (by a friend who does nothing but...) for years, because I'm such a nut about final appearance, and way over my head when it comes to finishing. I've worn out a lot of card scrapers, but there are some woods that just look better sanded. I think the softer the wood, the higher the benefit to sanding as a final step. Also, obviously, the type of piece and final finish designs (surface luster) play an enormous role.The oscillating edge sander w/spindle will be huge in my shop. I do a lot of chair-building and other projects that feature flats (where mortise/tenon attachments occur) along curvilinear surfaces (e.g., chair rails fitted to rear legs) and the edge sander is wonderful for producing sweeping curves that are "fair," when the alternative (say working with a spokeshave) is much more labor intensive and -- for me -- produces "spotty" results. Ditto making curved templates that can be taken to the router table and used with flush-trimming, bearing guided bits; a power edge-sander was made to eat up and smooth the edges of MDF and plywood templates. No fun doing that sort of chore with hand tools or sandpaper.I would almost hesitate to relegate this tool to just the "production shop," since it would be something many hobbyists would turn to, daily -- if they had one -- for shaping small parts and other chores. I think it's one of those tools that you don't think of as "indispensable," until you have one -- kind of like a microwave.I tend to think of machines like "time savers," with their ability to level and final-sand panels, cabinet doors, and sheet goods to be more of a "commercial shop" purchase (do I want one? you bet!) I've been reading Bob Flexner's "Understanding Wood Finishing" (I don't...), and trying to process all the information. One of the benefits of sanding (apart from just "smoothing") is that it determines how the wood you're working with reacts to colorants like stain. Coarser grits result in greater pigment absorption, and hence darker finishes; finer grits produce less absorption and lighter finishes, and so on. Sanding, then, increases the woodworker's range of options -- what his final, finished piece will look like -- in a way that scrapers and planes can't.Sanding the inside of tight curves, is, for me, the most thankless job of all. Using rasps and sandpaper wrapped around dowels gets old in a hurry for these arthritic hands. Grizzly, here I come.Thanks for your response.Edited 7/4/2009 12:28 pm ET by sasquatch55Edited 7/4/2009 12:29 pm ET by sasquatch55
Edited 7/4/2009 12:36 pm ET by sasquatch55
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