“POP” the grain or highlight the hidden beauty of dark woods with oil first and then wait for a long long time and finish with your choice of finish later. Baloney! did I spell baloney right?
I would like to concur with already published finishing advice from pros. I recently read an article published by FineWoodWorking about using oil first to POP the grain and/or highlight darker woods hidden color. The article suggested and correctly determined that ANY oil based product placed directly on the sanded wood yielded the same “look” as oil first (wait a long time ) re-apply.
My experience concurs and I am so grateful to articles that save time and tell the truth about finishing myths. …..
Just go for it with any oil finish and get the job done quicker with the SAME result. I have duplicated this advice and it works just fine. Time is money, why wait for oil to dry when you need a paycheck on the kitchen table.
By the way, long oil varnish that is advertised as gym floor varnish is superior in scratch resistance than even catalitic/conversion/fancy wancy/professional/spray health beware laquers/varnishes/alien liquids.
I read this in FWW. It must be true. I gotta try this gym floor finish. If I remember correctly the article said it was McClosky Gym Floor.
The term “long Oil” really has to do with the way the molecules link together. There are advantages in all finishes but for “my money” why not just make life simple and get used to ONE dependable and time tested trustworthy finish.
I hope my testing proves that this finish is good for us woodworkers.
Please share your experience with this aklyd (sp) “long oil”finish.
Yo,
DonC
Should I have I spelled this topic with “old wife’s tale” instead of wives? I hate spelling! I love woodworking and this forum.
Edited 3/25/2009 11:56 pm ET by DonC
Replies
Don,
Don't matter how ye spel eet!
But I would caution you on the use of the word old - wives don't particularly like being called old, especially in conjunction with the word bat. Don't ask me how I know this. :-)
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 3/26/2009 8:52 am ET by KiddervilleAcres
Yeah, I had an old wife once. I traded her in on three young ones, but they left me right after the old wife took all my money in the divorce. ;-)
" Old wife left with the money "
had a neighbour who said his wife left him and took 20,000 when a friend of mine met her later and asked her about it she said she would of left sooner if she could of got 20 bucks from him let alone 20,000 LOL
finishing myths. ..... Anybody can do it?
Sounds like my old Math and Art teachers....
I think you are mostly right about the special "grain popping" effects of linseed oil versus oil/varnish or oil based varnishes, though some do believe there is a little more "translucence" brought by the oil. Using BLO for this does not call for anything more than a single coat, and not even a flooded on coat. Just enough to wet the surface, and then wiped off as fully as possible.
"Long oil" is a property of varnish whose name derives from the proportion of oil to resin ingredients before they are cooked to create varnish. Using a relatively large proportion (long on oil) of oil gives varnishes that are relatively flexable, a desirable property for exterior items, but not such a good thing for interior furniture.
McCloskey Gym Oil is no longer. Cabot acquired the McCloskey brands and has mostly been rebranding under the Cobot label. One thing you should remember about the McCloskey varnish for gym floors is how coaches were always insistent on not wearing street shoes in the Gym.
There are uses for many different finishes depending on the particular application, so I do disagree with the find the one best finish as stick with it approach. Floors want the abrasion resistence that comes from polyurethane, kitchen tables need more protection than picture frames. Casual furniture and certain styles look best with an "in-the-wood" finish. Period reproductions call for another look.
Steve,
In your experience, has the "popping" effect ever fade out or lessen after time?
Thanks,
T.Z.
Yes, just as wood changes color over time, the contrast can also change. In some sense though these mellowing changes brought by the natural properties of wood all enhance the beauty, not really detract. The effects that occur when finishes yellow and darken over time (as the oil and oil-based finishes do over time.) are not always so fortunate.
On some types of wood I find oil, thin oil, penetrates better and gives more depth than if I just used finish. If the depth potential is there to be got. Other wood I do the same process and it makes no contribution.
So. I say experiment a bit on the particular project. If it shows a benefit then go the extra step.
The oil I use doesn't really dry so i don't wait. The oil based product I then use as the top coat shows no problem from not waiting. In addition I have very limited experience practicing french polishing and they put shellac over undried oil also. No problem.
I am having a sneaking feeling that I did not entirely understand your question/problem. Sorry if I am off base here.
Perfect spelling is for people with minds that work that way. Photographic or what ever. I can't think (get an exciting idea down before I forget it ) on paper and spell properly at the same time. Hemingway said the first draft is always $hit. Not sure if spelling was what he was referring to but I am going with it.
roc
Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Edited 3/26/2009 8:42 pm by roc
I'm brand new here, but I'm going out on a limb to post a reply.
McCloskey GymSeal is the product mentioned, I believe . . . but sadly, it is no longer made. Valspar is hawking a urethane product as a replacement.
In 1998, I finished the floors in our main rooms with GymSeal. It held up very well, especially considering the house was built in 1850 and the floors are softwood.
If you can find a true replacement for GymSeal, please let me know!
B-A-L-O-G-N-E
balogna??!!.......bologna??.....baloney................better than liverwurst!
BA LON KNEE
My experience is much as you say Don: a wipe over with bolied linseed oil does little or nothing to enhance the final appearance of the wood if you are using an oil based finish over the top, eg, polyurethane varnish, danish oil, etc.
Where I do find it a useful first finishing step are cases where you might be following up with a non-oil based finish. For instance, it gives a richer, warmer colour to walnuts, eg, Juglans regia and J. nigra, prior to applying pre-catalysed lacquer. Without the boiled linseed oil walnut can look a bit cold and uninviting when polished with pre-catalysed lacquer alone. Similar characteristics can be beneficial when oil is used as a first stage in other woods, eg, cherry and maple where, in both cases it darkens them. This may or may not be desirable depending on the look desired, but it is a tool available to use.
There are of course other ways to adjust colour prior to applying any film forming finish over wood that may be better in particular situations, but boiled linseed oil or pure tung oil do have their uses.
I can't comment on this gym floor varnish stuff you mention, it being foreign stuff unavailable to Brits on the eastern side of the Atlantic. Slainte.
richardjonesfurniture.com
I've wondered about the same thing for a long time. I've done a lot of finishing with Danish oil, Sherwin Williams CAB lacquer, individually, and together. But I've never done a controlled comparison until just recently. I built a bench recently for my radial arm saws from some oak plywood that was in my shop for ten years or so, and some solid lumber left from a recent job. Sanded to 120, sprayed with vinyl sealer, and a couple coats of gloss CAB lacquer. Didn't use Danish oil because the cabinet was 8' long, heavy, in the way, and I didn't want to wait. The door and drawer fronts, built a couple weeks later from the same batch of lumber, sanded to 120, Danish oil, wait for 3 days, spray with vinyl sealer, and a couple coats of CAB gloss lacquer. Noticeable difference in appearance, more than shows in the photo. Face frame and bench edge, no oil, doors and drawer fronts, oil. Sorry about file size, don't know how to change it.
The file size is a real problem . . . Brian
Brian,
Right click on the picture, when the drop down menu appears, select "Open Link in New Window". The picture will pop up and fit your screen.
---or wait till someone resizes it---
Regards,
Mack
"Close enough for government work=measured with a micrometer, marked with chalk and cut with an axe"
Edited 4/7/2009 4:08 pm ET by Mackwood
Or just hold down the Shift key and left mouse click on the link and it automatically opens in a new window and resizes an image. Slainte.richardjonesfurniture.com
Richard me lad,
Is it OK to say that? Except for Mel, most of the folks here on Knots are lads to me.
Would ye be givin lessons to Mr. Gates on how to use his 'puters anytime soon? Very impressive.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 4/7/2009 9:17 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Call me whatever you like Bob. I'm into rugby; insults and abuse are indications of friendship and, no, I won't be showing Mr Gates anything. Slainte.richardjonesfurniture.com
Tried that. STILL HUGE.Gretchen
My mouse only has one clicker, Mack. See the irony?Brian
Brian, perhaps it's time to buy a new mouse, one that has two functioning buttons and wheel thingy. On the other hand perhaps you're using one of those weird Mac things, ha, ha. Slainte.richardjonesfurniture.com
>weird Mac things, ha, ha<Opening in new window worked on my Mac. Thing is, for me any way, a mouse is history. I now use a touch pad with multi touch. For instance to right click just tapped the pad with two fingers and down came the menu. I sure don't miss cleaning the track ball or the wire on the desk.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VeAOK8RxooStill "weird" here and glad of it.ha, ha : )rocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Your photos clearly show the benefit of applying an amber colored finish as a medium for highlighting and enhancing the color of the wood. In reality, it makes little difference what is used for the source of the amber color. Boiled linseed oil, "danish oil", amber shellac or almost any oil based clear finish will highlight the grain. "Danish Oil" is generally nothing more than 75% thinner, 20% linseed oil and 5% varnish. It's the linseed oil component that provides the amber color. Some oil based finishes are made to be light in amber color. Varnishes made with alkyd resin and soya oil are quite light (pale) and do not highlight the grain as much as darker varnishes like poly, Waterlox and Behlens. These products are made with either linseed oil or phenolic resin both of which are dark amber in color.The bottom line is that finishes that have little or no amber tone to them (waterborne clears, bleached shellac, many lacquers)will not do much to highlight the grain. Many who use waterborne finishes will apply an initial coat of BLO or an amber dye to liven up the wood grain.Howie.........
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