From time to time I wonder about buying an old infill plane, a Norris, Spiers or Mathieson, and recently I’ve been cruising eBay looking at what’s for sale.
There’s no logic to this, of course! I don’t do a lot of hand planing, I already have a fairly full collection of conventional hand tools, including planes, and if I was after performance I’d be best advised to buy L-N or Veritas, both if which are as good as anything made in the past.
It’s about liking the idea of owing a bit of woodworking history, and they just look so staunch, don’t they!?
So where do I go for the best advice, and the best indications of what is a fair price to pay? What’s been happening to prices recently? Do hand tool woodworkers actually use these old tools, or are they mostly going into the collectors’ cabinets?
Malcolm
Replies
I also wanted to try out the old technology of infill planes. I visited Shepherd Tools and built a shoulder plane from their kit. I love it. I use it and love the results. It was a lot of fun to make and I now have a set of three shoulder planes and will likely look into getting a smoother next year. Getting a piece of history or participating?
As to the quality of the plane, it's easly as good my Lee Valley planes.
I've thought about that as well!
From time to time in FWW there have been articles and pictures about reader-built planes, and some of them have looked very cool!
Making a kitset is also a possibility.
Are there any custom makers in the knots community?
Malcolmhttp://www.macpherson.co.nz
Anyone know anything about Ray Iles A5 smoothers?
Malcolmhttp://www.macpherson.co.nz
yes,
Buying one would affect the NZ balance of trade figures.
Jeez yes! $800 ex UK plus shipping. I guess that's a useful benchmark if looking at genuinly old tools, or a kitset!
Malcolmhttp://www.macpherson.co.nz
Actually, Patto, the kit option isn't much cheaper!
I think I'll give up and get real.
Malcolmhttp://www.macpherson.co.nz
Malcolm,
Don't you need to get a Hotley in your hands before you make any decisions on what to buy ??
At the antique auction I go to up in New Hampshire, I think it's Tony Murland that has the greatest collection of Spiers, Norris, and lots of craftsman planes at the show.
A chance would be a fine thing, BG.
My chances of actually seeing any of these things is vanishingly small - if it wasn't for FWW I probably wouldn't know they even existed!
Malcolmhttp://www.macpherson.co.nz
Malcolm,
If I remember correctly, one of your first posts a while ago was a hand plane you had made...quite beautiful. After seeing the Norris, Spiers and especially the craftsman's planes..and how they add lead for weight...your plane building skills tell me your not missing much. I'm teasing about the Hotley ($10,000)...but if were going to dream...
http://www.holteyplanes.com/
I took a look at Ken Holtey's web site! Absolutely lovely tools. If money were no object, I'd have one - just because of the craftsmanship. I don't think there's a more beautiful tool than a classic plane.
The fine tools retailer in the UK has an interesting (if slow) web site as well.
Dream on, eh!
I am sort of seriously thinking about a kitset, however.
Malcolmhttp://www.macpherson.co.nz
seen these...??
http://www.sauerandsteiner.com/who.htmMike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
> seen these...?? <
Have now!
Pretty cool eh! Been very interesting spending a few hours cruising around the web looking at the top end of the infill plane business. Some very impressive tools being made. Holtey's stainless steel smoother is the winner by a mile - what a tool!
Malcolmhttp://www.macpherson.co.nz
Holtey's 98 finished in damascus steel was a sight to behold.. work of art.. but of the two I'd far prefer to have an S&S... totes customised to your hand... your choice of stuffing and blade angle...
Getting spoiled for choice with infill makers thesedays....Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
> Getting spoiled for choice with infill makers thesedays.... <
Yep. Note how many of these guys are ex woodworkers as well!
Malcolmhttp://www.macpherson.co.nz
I'm not exactly sure if this is what you're looking for... but this link may prove informative... or it'll scare the cr$p outa ya... ;)
http://www.trindersfinetools.co.uk/
their server's a bit slow tonight for some reason...
if you're keen on getting an antique infill, Andy at Inchmartine tools might be worth getting in touch with....
http://www.toolbazaar.co.uk/
Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
Malcolm,
yes they do work but like all tools they are not all created equally. Stick to the name brands like Norris, Spiers, and Mathison. A lot of the old planes were made by the craftsman and may not be as good as the name brands. Be prepare to pay a minimum of $400-500 for a decent one and more for a collectors model.
I have several and I love most of them. A well tuned Norris or Spiers will work a little better then a L-N which I have and think highly of. The blades are thicker than the L-N and the whole plane has more mass.
i have found that the best place to get them is Great Britain. The prices are better for the most part than here is the US. Go to the Mid West Tool collectors web site at http://www.mwtca.org and fo tho the links section and you will find several. Two that I have bought many antique planes from are Andrew Stevens at Inchmartine in Scotland and Tony Murland in England. Tell them you want a good user rather than a collectors item and they will help you. I have never been disappointed with them.
Be careful, old tools are addicting. There is something very special with a plane that is 100 to 200 years old that still makes whispy thin shavings and sings to you. Have fun.
Well, I've ordered a Sheperd kit!
The new smoother. Go Ben and Doug!
I figure I can make a traditional style infill to a standard that pleases me, with some customisation (shaped to suit, engraved with my makers name etc) for about the cost of a low grade, not in very good condition used tool (there are some real dungers on eBay at the moment for 300 and 400 bucks - these things are really sought after, eh!)
I'll post a photo when finished (sometime around Xmas)
Malcolmhttp://www.macpherson.co.nz
Malcolm- "dungers"?????
Let us see when you have finished the plane.Which model did you get?
Philip Marcou
Edited 10/13/2005 12:27 am by philip
Here's a couple of dungers currently on ebay, one for about 80 pounds sterling, one for about 40.
What would you do with these things!
I have ordered one of the new Shepherd 4.5s, after a Spiers #7 I think. I'm wodering whether I should have ordered a Norris-style adjuster!
Also keen to have a go at making a block plane from scratch! Holtey has some nice little block planes with tombstone shaped irons that I like the look of. Simple design, probably within range of my metalwork.
Malcolmhttp://www.macpherson.co.nz
What would I do? I only am interested in those with Norris type adjusters. The only time I have seen Norris , Spiers etc here was last weekend in Tirau-all in good condition, but none with ajusters-prices around 4 to 6 hundred.
If I saw similar to your pics and they had adjusters I would look closer to see viability of restoration. The gun metal ones did not at least suffer rust attacks. I have metal working lathes and some skill so I always have a good look....Those dungers-if the body is sound there is the basis for a rejuvenated in-fill-did you see the pic I posted some time ago of a very nice one?
Enjoy your Shepherd-if it does not plane properly send it to me;-)Philip Marcou
Edited 10/13/2005 1:24 am by philip
> if it does not plane properly send it to me <
I'm happy I'll be able to handle the metalwork, Philip, and should be able to put together a workable tool.
I've been really impressed by the work the top makers are doing - Holtey is only one of a half dozen craft planemakers who are doing great work. And this is no new thing. I dug out FWW 45, from '84, where there's an article about tool making that has some very nice pieces of work.
Why did you decide not to have a go at toolmaking?
I've made a half dozen wooden planes over the past couple of years - rosewood, oak, matai, lignum vitae - and really enjoyed the experience. Metal is a step up, but not a big step, and I like the idea that I can bust a piece of beauty out of just plate metal, with just a few tools!
Are you interested in doing some maching for me?
Cheers
Mhttp://www.macpherson.co.nz
> last weekend in Tirau <
What's in/at Tirau Philip?
Malcolmhttp://www.macpherson.co.nz
Tirau is of interest to me because a) there is a shop there that is full of long case clocks and b) the only antiques/collectables shop that has woodworking tools worth looking at-all in cabinets, easy to see , good condition and some rare stuff.Philip Marcou
I had second thoughts and changed to a Norris style (A6) adjuster. Some of the links in the 'Fine metalworking' discussion have been very informative. The more I look at tool-making the more I like the idea!
I've always been impressed by the very nice hand-made hand tools that sometimes appear in FWW!
Malcolm
Definitely a better plan. Why make a superior plane and then handicap the thing by excluding a nice adjusting mechanism?
Apart from the cost factor, this Norris type adjuster is what seduced me into getting those two Veritas planes-and I don't regret it and now I can actually see the mechanism I can make my own if and when I make a plane.
Don't look at those links from Rick- it will be fatal.Philip Marcou
> Don't look at those links from Rick- it will be fatal <
It's too late, already!
Malcolmhttp://www.macpherson.co.nz
do you have any knowledge of a place to start to try and sell my stanley #55 and its 52 cutters?
You could try e-bay which is probably the largest auction going for antique tools. Some do not like buying anything with out touching it or liiking at it first. Several retail tool stores might give you an offer if it is in good shape. Go to e-bay even if you are not going to sell there to find out what 55's are selling for. If it is an early to mid model in good shape in the original box it could go for $400 to 500.Good luck
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled