Old Growth Douglas Fir for Workbench Top
Tonight, I got a delivery of old-growth Douglas Fir. The grain is so tight, it’s amazing. What’s more, luckily for me, it’s quartersawn! It’s going to be used for the top of my new workbench and likely for the stretchers.
Each board is 6″ thick and about 14-16″ wide. Three are just over 8′ long and three are about 7′. The three thinner boards on top are cherry.
How should I go about making the three 8-footers into a benchtop? Each one weight a good 150lbs. I have 10″ table saw which won’t cut it. I have a bandsaw with a 12″ resaw capacity, a 8″ DJ20 jointer, and a 13″ DW735 Planer. Should I cut each board in two on the bandsaw and throw them over the jointer and through the planer? Or should I spend a weekend with the jack plane?
One last question: would I be insane to make a 5-1/2″ thick benchtop?
Chris @ www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
– Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. – Albert Schweitzer
Replies
nice score. Hope you didn't have to pay going rate for this stuff.
I dunno how dry it is. at 6" thick, I'd be cautious about moisture content even if it is specified. Hell I'd even be suspicious about species.
commerically speaking, I'd be thinking that 6" stuff, well that would be used for mine timbers and shoring, places where folks don't give a hoot about moisture content. Or whether it's fir or hemlock.
That being said. When it comes to ripping it, if you toss an 8 1/4" thin kerf decking blade in a 10" table saw, yu should be able to get a 3" cut, then flip the board over and do the other half of the cut. Ain't gonna be pretty, but will be way prettier than using a bandsaw. And if you got a 1/2" or so left uncut, well that takes only a few minutes with a handsaw to rip that little bit .
I'd maybe be expecting shrinkage for a year or two, It's really hard to imagine in this day and age that anyone could produce a through and through furniture grade moisture content on timbers of this size. Heck, they likely couldn't even measure moisture content beyond 1" into the beasties.
you was askin...
One last question: would I be insane to make a 5-1/2" thick benchtop?
well, if you want to mount a tradiional cabinetmakers vice (record/woden) you might wanna measure it out first. The biggest (Woden) vice I have is designed to mount under a 3" surface, smaller vices need a 2" top, and some of the smaller again vices need 1.5", but as it's all over the map, and I only measured the vices I have, I feel confident that having a 5 1/2" benchtop may well provide a honkin skokum rigidity, but frustrate you when it comes to mounting vices or boring holes for holdfasts.....
Just my thoughts
Eric in Calgary.
Eric,
I worked a deal to get this and a whole bunch of other wood. I build him a dogwood dining room table last December and this is part of the payment.
I haven't stuck a moisture meter on it (don't know how effective it will be. It has been sitting in a guy's garage for years and feels relatively light when picking it up, though it's a two-man job. Maybe 150lbs.
Your idea of a ripping blade on a table saw sounds good, as long as I can get a straight edge to register against the fence. There's no reason I can't, though.
Excellent point on vises. Currently, I am planning a twin screw tail vise and wavering between a shoulder vise and a patternmaker's vise for the face. Other than boring the holes, is does a thick top create problems?Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
One last question: would I be insane to make a 5-1/2" thick benchtop?
I'd say NO in no uncertain terms!
I once made a very nice woodworking bench out of Purpleheart. Top was one slab. That hunk of wood was so heavy I had to have it delivered by truck. Actually I got two slabs. The other was for the legs and what I thought would be aprons and stringers. I DID NOT NEED aprons!
As I remember it took me a month to hand saw the slab for the legs and such! I had NO idea what I was getting into! All in all, it turned out great. Only problem is I hardly ever used it! Was to nice to hack upon... I sold it to a man walking by and saw it.. I 'guess' I at least broke even.. Maybe?
Long ago I built a boat out of old growth Douglas straight grain fir.. That was in 1963 or so. Plans for 14/18 foot? cabin with inboard motor... It still floats! Motor wore out pushing it around!
Just a thought.. I left the bottom of the bench top as it was.. I only made the top flat AFTER the bench was fully made...
I worked hard enough witH just one flat surface!
Will,
Purpleheart! Jeez, no wonder you didn't want to use it! How is purpleheart to work? I have only drilled and turned it for making pens and it seems to split easily.
I think that I will flatten the top after laminating the slab. **6 slabs, each 6" thick, laminated together would yield a benchtop almost 36" wide and 14-16" thick!! Would THAT be too thick? [Yes] At that point, I could almost do away with the legs!**Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
How is purpleheart to work? Very nice to @#$$#^^^ stuff!
I use it all the time because I like a challenge and my hardwood supplier has alot of it a a reasonable price. Cuts/acts alot like Hickory which I also use frequently.
Yes it will to split easily as you said. Especially when using router. After ALOT of mishaps I found that watching the grain VERY CAREFULLY it is easy to work with light cuts.
You stated splits.. I'd call it shatter! I have NEVER found a good way to hand plane it! But then again if my hand planes or my Stanely/Baliey #7 does not work, I turn to my drum sander!
Once you are finished you will find it stays as you made it! All in all, I love it.. but then again I'm a bit strange!
Tough wood! I understand they use to use it for flooring on RR flat cars and truck beds!
EDIT: I forgot.. Just a thought.. From the pictures, I hardly think you would need to glue up the edges to make a wide table. Not sure if I can describe but I'll try.
When I made my 'nice' bench. Long ago so just going from memory.. I did NOT drill a bunch of 'dog holes' into the top. Or glue up the edges. I cut the edges as best I could (as in reasonably at about 2 degrees off of 90) so each slab fit together at the top with a almost invisible seam. The slab for the top was approximately 22 inches wide.
I used brass rods about 1/2 inch in diameter as 'pegs' or nails? to attach the slabs to the leg/frame/assembly. Brass rods about 1/2 inch below the top and plugs fitted. No glue for the plugs.. As in I could drive them out from the bottom if needed! Never needed..
I only drilled 'dog holes' in a few places 'as I worked' and determined what I needed for my work habits.
It only had one vice. A twin screw at the left front of the bench. The screws were made of 2 inch Hickory turned and threaded on a metal lathe I had at the time. Maybe steel is better but I wanted to try it! Seemed to work for me! I made a few extra screws.. Just in case.. Never needed! But then again I never use it that much!
The finish was automotive lacquer (not the top surface). Many coats sprayed on by a good friend that lost an arm in a fire that happened while he was spraying a 1932 Ford Duce rehab we were making!.. That was back in the very late 1950's! Hell, we were just kids!
AND his father yelled at him for burning the garage down! Parents can be so stupid sometimes! Still a good friend.. He can use one arm better than I can with two!
Edited 6/7/2008 2:39 pm by WillGeorge
I'm extremely jealous!
If you have a well tuned bench plane, use that to work the tops. It would be a real shame to cut those boards down.
It's not insane to make a 5 1/2" thick benchtop. Look for information on the Roubo bench, and get a copy of Christopher Schwarz's Workbench book, if you haven't done so already.
One question: you mentioned that you're using three of your boards to build a bench top. Do you really want a benchtop that's 42-48" wide? How are you going to use this bench?
I agree - it would be extremely wasteful to cut the boards down any more than necessary. My bench will be 36" wide. Depending on the dressed width, I may need to use three boards. Hopefully not!
I own Schwarz's book. I consider it an essential read for anyone looking to buy or build a bench.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Great wood I used some old growth doug fir 2x4s from the roof rafters salvaged from a remodel of a 1930s house and they worked great for a bench the top ended up being about 2 and 7/8 of an inch thick. The stuff is really heavy though. My bench is about 31x72 and the top alone must weight about 150 pounds. You might consider ripping the wood down to 2x6 pieces then those to 2x3 then after jointing and surfacing gluing them up into a top. I am sure this would be very sturdy and stable.
Troy
Troy,
Ripping, dressing, and laminating was my original plan, until I found out that the boards are quartersawn. I think that the benchtop will be plenty stable.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Sounds like stability will not be a problem. I was also thinking that a top that thick might be tough to move and I am always trying to get a little more out of the wood hence the 3" thick top. I am sure it will be great either way I really like the vertical grain doug fir. Be sure to post some pictures when you are done next week:) Troy
Here's an idea..... make a bench out of mdf and plywood. Use this now rare wood for some nice furniture.
Ahh be patient grasshopper... If you think that is nice for the top wait till you see the legs. This is a passion for Chris, he wants to work on a unique bench, and I believe it will be an inspiration every day he uses it..... <!----><!----><!---->
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-------(*)/ (*) http://www.EarthArtLandscape.com
INSPIRATION: that's something I would give anything for. Not that I don't have any, but it's something that I could not live with and would not work wood without.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Ewww. MDF and plywood? Not on my Cherry crotch legs! I have seen old growth Douglas fir used in some very fine furniture. Remember, only two or two-and-a-half long boards will go the the bench top and only one shorter one to the stretchers and other structural components!
View ImageChris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Those cherry crotch legs sure will make for a unique bench.What are you planning to use this workbench for? Given the wood you're using for the legs, my guess is that it won't be ideal for holding boards since you won't have a good way to use the legs for clamping. If it is going to be used for workholding, 36" still seems a bit wide.This is a thinly veiled attempt to get you to see that you only need to use two of your boards, and to send the third to me. :@)Actually, I'm working (slowly) on a Roubo style bench, and using Douglas fir 4x4's laminated together to make a "quartersawn" top, although it's only going to wind up being 3 1/2" thick.
While the legs don't help much for holding boards on edge or vertically, I will have a sliding deadman to offer support. I think that I can justify the 36" because it will be a walk-around bench. I can work on stuff on each side. 36" because that's the width of the cherry crotch and I can't bear to cut it down! (Don't tell anyone!)
I don't know about where you are, but here in BC there is an (relative) abundance of old growth Douglas fir. Most of it has been salvaged from old logging bridges or train trestles. http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/mat/704193458.htmlChris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Chris - Using those cherry boards for the legs on a bench is not a good idea, unless you're going to somehow rip them down and glue them up to make 4 or 5" squares. The reason is that if you tenon those boards into the benchtop (in the center), there will be poor support on the outer long edges of the bench, and that's a key observation from Chris Schwarz's book.
Another key observation from Chris' book is to avoid making a working bench into a piece of furniture (i.e., for looks) - that's one of the reasons he advises using Southern Yellow Pine.
Go back and re-read his text on the width of workbenches - reaching across the bench is only one (and a minor) reason for not building it wider than 24". Easily the biggest reason is that you don't want a benchtop that's wider than the standard 24" cabinet width, because it makes clamping difficult.
Finally, probably the most important part of the whole book is the chapter titled "Invent Nothing" - the point he's making is that there's a great reason not to try to make your bench "unique" with design features (like a wide top and cherry crotch boards for legs!) to show off your talents. Whatever you build will be unique anyway without going off-piste.
Thanks for your honest, straight-forward reply and constructive criticism.
I'm not concerned about supporting the outer edges of the workbench because the cherry crotch will be installed wide side up. I will add [ shaped feet to the bottom to make each leg look like this >[
Truthfully, the cherry crotch legs are what inspired me to build this workbench. Massive, substantial, and unique. I do believe that function should come before fashion, however I don't believe that looks are meaningless. Every morning when I wake up, I roll over and look at the headboard of my bedframe I built and smile. I built it three years ago. I want the same thing from my workbench everytime I go into the shop.
Though the top will be one 36" wide slab, I see it as two 18" benches stuck together. I can work from either side of the bench without interfering with what's on the other. My current workbench is 24" deep and has absolutely no clamping capacity, with the exception of a small face vise.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Actually, Chris - what I was referring to in Schwarz' book about clamping capacity has nothing to do with the particular vises or holdfasts made into the bench - it has to do with the width alone and the ability to clamp a standard cabinet (kitchen or fine furniture - they're all typically 24" deep or so) to the top with clamps.
Chris Schwarz has said a bit more about this in his blog entries, but his workbench book makes the point - with a bench that's over 24" wide, you have a difficult time clamping both sides of a carcass down to the bench. On a narrower bench, you've room to use parallel or cabinetmaker's clamps to clamp the flat surface of the side of a carcass (on both ends) down to the bench for planing or sanding.
I've also little doubt about the substantial nature of the cherry crotch legs from the standpoint of stability, mounted as you've noted. However, you will be unable to use the legs as a clamping surface, which is noted as a critical point in the book. Schwarz points out that this is why commercially available benches available "off the shelf" are poorly designed and unacceptable - the legs are inset from the front edge of the bench and cannot be used to support a long board on its edge.
Yes, I remembered what Schwarz said about cabinets. However, I do not fancy myself a cabinetmaker and would rather do anything else than build cabinets. The woodwork I build has historically been small scale (jewlery box size) or large (table size).
When you talk about stability, are you referring the the stability of the bench or the wood itself? I will be putting ~30" wide feet on the bottom of the crotches for stability. I've also stated that I will incorporate a sliding deadman for support. I can clamp work to the deadman if need be.
Keep the constructive criticism coming!Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Chris - My post stated that I would not be concerned about stability, given your design at present. It discussed why a bench should have linear, flat leg surfaces flush with the front of the bench.
A sliding deadman will help with holding boards on edge, but I'd wonder how you're going to mount the bottom runner for the deadman, given that the cherry crotch leg bottom will be inset from the top front edge of the bench.
This is, of course, my personal opinion, and it's your bench, but:
1) I'd advise against trying to meld a piece of showcase furniture and a workbench (i.e., making a bench a showcase piece of furniture). A workbench is designed to, well, work, and as such needs to be as utilitarian as possible. That doesn't mean that you can't use some nice wood and do good joinery.
2) Those cherry crotches would make an absolutely beautiful table, particularly in the orientation your sketch shows. so...
My strong advice is that you make your bench to a standard design out of Chris' book (or something very similar), and spend your engineering/design efforts and rare (and expensive!) cherry crotches on a piece of furniture that you can be proud to own, or sell.
Regardless of what you make now, there are very few of us that stick with making the same sorts of things year-in, year-out. Even most professionals shift around the focus of their work now and then, and a bench made to the principles in Schwarz' book will work for just about any woodwork, from bowl-turning and carving to kitchen cabinet making, and very well.
I'm out in New Jersey -- not too many old bridges left out here. :(Currently I'm using a 3 1/2" thick poplar beam about 9" wide and 6 feet long on some sawhorses as a temporary bench. I'm surprised as to how well it's working.But if you have an extra beam left over when you're done.... :@)
There are lots of old bridges in New Jersey. However, they tend to be made of stone....
-Steve
Chris,
You rot! You absolutely rot! (said with good natured affection as has been done in previous posts with the word "suck", wherein the responder created quite a connundrum for himself in that others misunderstood the gentlemanly humor implied in such a statement.)
I would break it down one of two ways:
Finally, joint and plane to suit.
We expect pics of this bench when completed -- this is a non-negotiable requirement!
Edited 6/6/2008 12:30 pm ET by pzaxtl
pz,
You rot! You absolutely rot!
Please don't tell me you're talking about them legs!?
I have a vision of those legs under Chris' Doug Fir benchtop; they are canted/splayed; only the bottoms are positioned outward; opposite to the ones under one of Mr. Nakashimas seating benches I saw in his book.
Perhaps tenoned into the top and with stretcher(s) tenoned into the legs with wedges, the weight of the benchtop bearing down on them. Might also be a cabinet underneath shaped to fit between the stretchers and legs, trapezoidal in shape.
Hmmmmmmmmmmm, whatta ya think Chris? Remember it is Friday gettin on towards quittin time!
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob,
Did I already tell you my intentions?
I hadn't though about splaying the legs, but that's a good idea! Currently they are 36" tall which would make for a very tall bench. To lower the bench, I had concluded that I must cut of about a foot of crotch. But alas, I see the light! Now, next question: inward or outward splay? Outward would add more stability with a longer footprint. Inward would allow the legs to be placed further apart. I like how it looks with the legs splayed inwards.
View Image
There will certainly be a cabinet below to add storage and mass to lower the center of gravity. For strength, I like tusk tenons, though I don't know if I can bear having them detract from the crotch. Maybe if I put them low enough.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Hi Chris,
The idea came to me as I was looking through some mags. looking for a design for a bench seat. I have some white birch crotch pieces that I want to use that are similar to yours. As a matter of fact seeing those got me starting to think about the bench. Great minds???????
Currently they are 36" tall which would make for a very tall bench.
OK, but remember that you will lose some height when they are spalyed, which might work to your advantage. After seeing your Sketchup model I like them splayed inward like you have them. What about leaving a live edge on them? Maybe even continue that kind of edge on the stretcher too? Kinda what I was thinking.
Now as for the cabinet I see where maybe an Esherick influence might work for the drawers/doors? You know, his Corner Desk. If you happen to have the latest Woodworking magazine there's an article about him in it. If I'm not mistaken FWW did an article about him years ago.
I would definitely inset the cabinet if you decide to go with the live edges on the legs and stretcher, but that's just my thoughts.
I also invented a new libation last night so bemay my mind is a bit cluody this MA. :-)
Regards, Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob,
I like the idea of continuing the natural edge of the crotch onto the stretcher. I'm also planning on doing the same for the drawer frames. A while back, there was a discussion on under-mount drawer slides and I believe that you were trying to convince me to take the plunge and buy the $40/pr slides. Well, I found some that are much more economical. 3/4 extension 75-pounders. http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.aspx?c=1&cat=3,43614,43620,55165&p=55165
By the way, I've already peeled the bark of the edges. It was falling off, so I felt I had no other option. There is bark on the inside of one of the crotches, though. I think I'll leave it there.
I'm still waiting for my copy of FW's latest.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Absolutely not! In fact, I'm thinking of hopping a flight out vancouver and stealing them from Chris -- the Doug Fir, too. Just wondering how I can get those items into my carry-on, though.
Good idea with the canted legs -- sure would be purty!
Mike,
I saw a bench and was thinking about Chris' bench and thought it would be a good idea. May not be practical for a bench but what the heck. I'd bet with some creative joinery it would/could be very strong too.
He did say he wanted to smile when he entered his woodshop and saw his bench. :-)
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
He did say he wanted to smile when he entered his woodshop and saw his bench. :-)
I think that's guaranteed given the wood he has for it. Shoot, he could assemble the bench with nails, twine and duct tape and he's still sure to smile when he sees that beautiful wood.
Pmichael,
A wood chipper would work! Cringe!Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Pmichael,
I'm really hoping that I can get a 36" width out of two boards only. If I need the third, I'll resort to cutting one or more down. Do you think it would be better to have two 16" boards and a 4" board or should I make all three boards the same width?
How would you go about jointing and planing? Would it be foolish to try to use the 8" jointer or 13" planer? Knowing me, I'll probably call up my buddy from Los Angeles, Jack (LA Jack, as I call him).
Photos? Absolutely. No two ways about it. You're getting them, like it or knot! (was that bad?)Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Oh, I thought you wanted to break them down to glue up a laminated top.
In that case, I'd probably edge joint them first with a hand plane, glue them together into one big slab then flatten the whole shooting match -- that is, assuming that the boards are reasonably flat and straight to begin with. That way, you're not flattening the board twice -- once to join them and once to flatten the bench top when completed. I definately wouldn't try the jointer and planer with lumber that size -- not unless you have some competent help.
And yes, the pun was bad, very bad. I'm thinking of a suitable punishment and the only one that comes to mind is that you must ship all of that Doug Fir to me. Oh, and the cherry crotch, too!
Sorry, I need the wood.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Chris,
Those are some nice boards you have there. I been thinking about your questions and reading the responses that have already come in. I have only a few bits of advice for you. But before I give you them, let me say that I really like the design you posted earlier in the thread. Now to my advice.
1. Don't build your dream bench yet. I don't know whether you've had a good solid bench yet or not, but your first bench is never your dream bench, even if you plan it to be. Your dream bench will be the one that you come to design after several years of woodworking. You've first got to figure out what you like to make and how you like to make it. You're methods of work should determine the design of your bench. That's the first truth of bench design. For example, a bench that works well for, say, Tage Frid would not work well for, say, Sam Maloof. The two just don't work in the same way. So, they're benches shouldn't be the same. So, you should build an inexpensive, but stout bench and work for a few years. Then you'll now what you need and want in a bench.
2. Read all the books, articles, etc. you can find on benches. You never know when you'll come across a great idea or solution to a problem. However, don't do something just because some guy at a magazine or some professional woodworker claims that it's the bee's knees. Only you know what will or won't work for you and your methods of working wood. Of course, you won't know that until you've done it for several years (so see bit of advice #1).
3. If you do decide to move ahead with your bench as designed, I would suggest that you either make a narrower bench (and perhaps make bent laminations out of cherry that mirror the shape of your cherry crotch [and if that persists, please see a doctor!]), or you actually do make two 18" tops. What I mean is make two 18" slabs and have about a 2" space between them. Then you could slip a clamp head up between them when you needed to clamp something in the 18-24" range. I stole that idea from David Charlesworth. Google his name for a peek at this bench if you're not familiar with it.
4. Although a 5-1/2" thick top would be truly stout, it's not necessary. Resaw your stock and make your top somewhere between 2-3/4 and 3" thick.
5. Finally, if you want to make your benchtop now, go ahead and make it, but don't make the bottom. Make a bench that you know you won't use forever, but one that has at least one component that will make it into your next bench. In your case, it could be the top, but it just as easily be a vise or a base. If you made a top 3"x24"x90" (just random dimensions), you would never need to make a new one (most likely) and you could try out different bases, vises, or vise configurations at you went along. What I'm really saying is that you should go into this bench thinking that you won't like it and that you'll want to change it. That way, you'll be okay with changing when you need to. And you will want to change it. Eventually, we all find some deficiency with our benches, or we change how we work. If you have invested a ton of beautiful timber, and untold hours into a bench that you thought was the ultimate and last word on benches, you'll find it more difficult to alter it.
6. Finally, finally: experience is the best teacher when it comes to benches. That's the upshot of all that I've written here. And I mean your experience, not mine, not Roubo's, and not Tage Frid's. Your woodworking experience will tell you what you need in a bench.
but your first bench is never your dream bench.. HARDLY!
Not true!
I made it and is was wonderful! Except.. I had to put a wood shim under one legs!
So, unless you dreamed about a bench with a shim under one leg, I'm still technically correct! At any rate, is there nothing you would change so that the bench better suits your working habits, projects, ect.?The reason I believe your dream bench can't be your first bench is because when you make it (unless you have loads of experience on someone's else bench), you don't really know what you need in a bench. And even if you have a good hunch, you'll probably develop as a woodworker and find that you are doing things your current bench can't accommodate well.And finally, to quote Aristotle, one swallow (the bird, just to head off any confusion or lurid responses) does not a summer make. You can only evaluate the true dreaminess of your bench at the end of its career (or you tenure in this mortal coil, whichever comes first).(Since it's impossible read tone on the internet, I'm speaking with a friendly voice.)I've had a perfectly wonderful evening, but this wasn't it. - Groucho Marx
Edited 6/9/2008 4:44 pm ET by MKenney
Will, In my garage just move the bench around and you will need a different shim on a different leg, depending on where you set it up.. I am going to apply bicycle inner tubes on the bottom and see if that works....Morgan <!----><!----><!---->
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-------(*)/ (*) http://www.EarthArtLandscape.com
Morgan,
So to level or raise the bench, you just hook up the compressor and...? I know that's not what you mean, but that would be quite something. How about a nice bubinga workbench top?Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Will, In my garage just move the bench around and you will need a different shim on a different leg,..
I agree..
My bench was perfectly level to the floor when I made it. I planted a Itsy, bitsi, tennie, tiny Maple tree about 30 feet away from my garage shop about 10 years ago.. BIG MISTAKE! That dang tree was lookin' for water somewhere and found it under my shop! Maybe my Blood, Sweat, and Tears working on the stuff I do?
Not sure which kind of Maple tree but it is SURE MESSY in the Spring, Summer, Fall.. It is sort of layed back in winter! Damn tree!
Tree roots have amazing power....able to lift tall buildings and inch a time.
I have tree in my backyard that is about 30 ft from my pool. One day I had tile popping off the pool and roots poking out. I jacked out the concrete ceck and then dug a ditch about 2 and half deep around the perimeter of the concrete. I put a heavy rubber liner down the side, backfilled the ditch and capped it with concrete. Works great as a barrier.
You could trench around your shop and do the same, of course it still won't be level but it wont get worse!
Morgan <!----><!----><!---->
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Matt,
1) I've used a number of benches with different vises and hold-down capabilities (devices), though there are many I have never used. This bench I'm building may be my dream bench, but in a few years when I get a new (bigger) shop (hopefully), I'll have room for another bench. I promise you that I will do my darndest to outdo this one! (Hey, that's what I live for!)
2) I have read lots of books and articles (have been for four-five years!) and posted lots on this forum and will continue to do so. I realize I may not have everything I need on this bench, but I can always modify it as I see fit. I will not hesitate to modify it if needed.
3) Well, I DO have two more crotches left, albeit thinner. My doctor says I'm beyond help! I like the idea of a split top. Maybe I can fasten one and run a metal guide rod through the slabs to allow the other to slide in and out.
4) While a 5-1/2" top may not be necessary, it does add a lot of mass and save me much work and waste. If it came as 3" stock, I'd use it, but I'll have to think long and hard about resawing them. I guess that would involve calling in a favour with someone with an Alaskan mill. Still an option.
5) I will certainly make the top now. I have the cherry crotch legs ready to be docked. What I have in mind IS knock-down, so I figure if I go ahead, I can still reuse the cherry legs and douglas fir top in another project/bench later down the road.
6) Yes, a workbench is a very personal project. It's all about what works for the end user.
I've been waiting about 4 years to be able to build a good bench and now I have that chance. Go big or go home - that's the only way I know how to do things. Thanks for all the suggestions and criticism!Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Chris,
I don't remember the discussion about the sliders, could be somestimers.
How thick are the crotch pieces that you want to use for the legs? Another thought I have is how dry are the pieces that you want to use? Hopefully they are dry enough so they don't move around on you, twist, cup, etc.
Do you plan to use wedge/tusk type tenons on the stretcher(s)?
Now you know you can't sidestep the cabinet underneath right? It too could present lots of cjhallenges, i.e. if it maintains a trapeziodal shape think of the joinery challenges! Dovetailed drawers, the faceframe joinery, drawers inside with trapezoid doors on the outside! I envy you with all these adventures coming your way.
Oh, and you could achieve adjustable height too by making several mortises in the stretcher(s) that hold the legs. Simplt lift the top, reposition the legs and reinsert the wedge/tusk(s)!
Of course you'll probably need everyone here in Knots to lift the benchtop for ya, but then that might be cause for a celebration anyway!
:-)
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob,
The crotch pieces are 2-3/8" thick, finished. They are quite dry and have moved all that they are going to. They started out as 3", but ended up thinner after I flattened them.
I plan to use tusk tenons for the stretchers. I think that I will use two stretchers and the drawer/cabinet assembly will drop onto them, possibly in three or four drawer banks to facilitate moving the bench to another shop.
Call me a cheater, but I'm planning on building all the drawers with square corners and making the drawer fronts trapezoidal. Much simpler. The angled space beside the outer drawers can be used to store thin stuff maybe?
Regarding your adjustable height idea, are you suggesting that it should be done by altering the cant of the legs? In theory, this would work, but the cabinet kind of diffuses this idea. Interesting idea, though.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Hi Chris,
Yeah, you got it on the adjustable height thang. I was thinking that would work if the bottom were left open and I think it might still work with a cab. underneath. But would add to the complexity of the bench so may not be worth it.
Besides, who really needs an adjustable bench anyway when you really think it through? Maybe if you have space issues.
Can't wait to see it!
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Wow, Chris, those timbers are truly wonderful!! Looking forward to hearing how things go as you construct the workbench. Amazing, isn't it, that DF used to grow like that around here (I'm down in Puget Sound).
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