Newfangled AKA pipeclamp workbench. Please comment re usage.
Gene_Davis
| Posted in General Discussion on
My neighbor worked with me in my shop and we built a pair of tool tote boxes, from a plan in a mag he gets each month. Nice little arrangement of dovetailed joints, rebates, curved handles, drawers, etc. We used the whole array of power tools, plus hand tools, and my bench.
He wants to get set up for woodworking, and has some power tools, but no hand tools, and ought to have a bench as the anchor of his handwork side of the shop.
I am suggesting he do the bench mentioned above. If you know about it and how it works for woodworking, please comment.
A nice video can be seen at a FH website that shows the magazine’s shop manager describing its use.
I recommended it for its low cost and ease of construction, plus its features.
Replies
What is your tolerance for having to move fillers every time you need to clamp something, having clamp handles stick up, pipes and handles sticking out, clamp blocks flipping loose and the possibility that the 2x4s will warp and twist the bench, limited clamping positions for work pieces plus tools, fingers and other body parts hitting the pipe clamp parts when you work?
If you can find time post some photos please.
>tool tote boxes, from a plan in a mag he gets each month. Nice little arrangement of dovetailed joints, rebates, curved handles, drawers, etc.<
Hey . . . we would like to see the tool totes you built if you can find time to put up some photos here.
Yes sir that would be great.
The NFW Bench Is a fine ADDITION to the shop but . . .
it is NOT a hand tool bench and it is not a good only bench in the shop.
Nah dude nah
nope
nope nope nope
here is a big 'O discussion
http://forums.finewoodworking.com/fine-woodworking-knots/general-discussion/new-fangled-workbench
If you or he want to just cut to the chase and get on with a hand tool bench just build this
https://www.finewoodworking.com/Workshop/WorkshopPDF.aspx?id=2129
No really ! I spent a great deal of time looking at this hand tool thing and you REALY CAN DO NO BETTER.
But if you enjoy research as much as I do knock yourselves out. Ten years from now ( if you are doing a lot of high end hand work ) I bet you arrive at that bench.
Keep us posted on your thoughts.
Most important feature?
OK if I understand how you framed your question was that your friend is relatively new to woodworking and starting workshop with very few tools. I am going to take it that the skill level is novice+. I built one almost 10 years ago with very few tools and at about the same skill level. I have found solutions to most of it short comings and feel finding simple solutions to solve its shortcomings to be part of its charm.
Is it the best bench ever, well no, but is to me since I built it. My initial investment was low and now that my skill levels have improved I could build a much more refined bench. Unfortunately, as with most things refinement costs more money and/or time both of which seem to becoming scarcer the older I get. Any good bench that your friend can build and improve with time is the right way to go. It doesn’t need to be a traditional design to be right for you.
Good luck.
Yes, he is pretty darned unskilled, when it comes to using hand tools. The beauty of this thing is that it is inexpensive and builds quickly and gets him started.
" . . . it is inexpensive and builds quickly and gets him started."
Those are the key words, I think, Gene. Although I don't have one, I'd say it's a huge step up from a solid-core door on a pair of saw horses. There are pros and cons to virtually any bench design. Figuring out which features are "pros" and which are "cons" - for him - will require some time for him to figure out, based on the nature of the work he ends up doing most frequently.
Not a bad starter bench
I think it's a good first bench for someone starting out. And I think you can do lots of hand work on this bench. You have a crochet, you have support for long plank edge-planing, you have the means to secure boards on the benchtop for planing, you have the equivalent of a Moxon-type vise for dovetailing, you can remove one or more of the middle boards for clamping.
I like the notion of removing one of the middle boards and replacing with a device (e.g. router).
About the only change I'd make to the original design is that I would rout out some rabbets to support those removable MDF boards down the center of the bench - without the rabbets, I would push on an edge and the board would flip up and smack me in the face.
And I do wonder if the mass of the bench is sufficient - evidently Mr. White has no problems.
You could also replace the two long pipe clamps with dogholes and the wagon-vise-like contraption Mr. White designed for his more recent electrical bench
Gregg
Oooops
>without the rabbets, I would push on an edge and the board would flip up and smack me in the face.<
That's Beautiful
Ha, ha, ha, aaahhhh, Ha, ha, ha, ha
Just as I imagined it could be !
I am not laughing at Gregg ; just the whole situation
Of course it will be doing those sorts of gymnastics while attempting to plane a board flat.
To plane a board flat one MUST have a SOLID . . . FLAT surface to back up the board being planed. If the bench surface is constantly changing dimensions, in an unpredictable way, so will the surface being planed (unless perhaps the stock being planed is more than two inches thick ).
Sounds to me like a very frustrating time for someone just starting out WITH HAND TOOLS and who may not realize why the task they are attempting to learn e.g., simply hand planing a half inch thick drawer front flat, is impossible.
If you want simple, fast ( to make and set up ) and effective use a Japanese planing beam and short beam (throw in some saw horses for . . . . . . . . . . oh . . . I don't know . . . . . . .
sawing stuff on ( how does one do that on a fangled that is too high ? ).
If you want all kinds of bells, and whistles and noise to distract from the simple task at hand : working wood with hand tools, then the fangled is your huckleberry.
Upon Reflection
I didn't really provide a solution. Assuming that the person starting out cannot sit on the floor for half the day holding the work down with a knee or a foot. I can you see. I grew up doing and teaching yoga. Flexibility does simplify ones life.
So
where does one go when they don't want to sit on the floor all day and the hand planes go the opposite direction to the pull to cut Japanese planes ?
Oh that's easy :
Make the planing beam. I made one fifteen feet long because I wanted to cut it later to the best length for me. I wound up cutting it roughly in half. I now had two eight foot long beams.
I already had two Workmates. Note those were inadequate for the REAL cabinet making I hope we are talking about here.
However when I put one or both beams on top of both Workmates and clamped them . . . . wellllllll
That was a pretty darn nice and versatile bench with a pretty darn stable base. Jammed in the corner, which one does anyway with a planing beam and it was super solid and stable.
I made really nice Krenov saw horses from there, so I did not have to take my above bench apart for lowering the workmates for sawing.
With all this I made the Klausz bench. I also had a Record vise bolted to various things through out the shop including the top of my 500 pound welding machine which was not as solid a base as one would think , during this time. Could have done it without it but it was a good interim vise for cutting the large dovetails of the Klausz bench.
The workmates make a super quick and extremely versatile solution to the work bench base.
The planing beam makes a quick and super flat/stable solution to the work bench top. BY THE TIME HE PLANES THIS TOP FLAT AND STRAIGHT ( 0UT OF WIND ) . . .
HE WILL KNOW HOW TO USE A HAND PLANE . . .
or die trying.
There
a realistic solution
PS: I recommend the higher number Workmates because they have the most beef. I swear mine is a 500 or 550 but the 425 is about the same. Two of them can support a thousand pounds and they don't wiggle and they have rubber feet so they don't scutch across the floor. Too much. Until you jam it in the corner of the shop.
: )
http://www.amazon.com/Black-Decker-WM425-550-Pound-Workbench/dp/B0000224R9/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1325026183&sr=8-1
I bought two of those ages before the planing beams. On the right side in the last photo "Krenov horses at work " you can just see the bases of the Workmates with their feet folded under for medium hight mode. They have three hight settings. One is very close to the ground but good for holding a door or wide plank etc., vertically on edge.
PPS: for the planing beam I used 2x4's ( as few knots as possible; take all day to look through all the lumberyards in town ).
I through bolted them with half inch all thread and counter sunk washers. As Daphne on Frasier says "I don't know why". I didn't even glue them together. Doing it again I would just make the beam 8 foot and glue them.
No . . . I had too much fun through bolting them.
"I don't know why"
: )
PPPS: the Krenov saw horses are bubinga. They look too weak but are super strong for their size.
I tried yoga once. I much preferred the type with fruit that you mix in. ;-)
You are very "cultured"
Ralph
>Yoga<
: )
That group and the stores that cater to them have some good bumper stickers :
My karma ran over my dogma
and
Get a taste of religion . . . lick a witch [ not that witches have any connection to yoga ; generally to keep the doors open the shop has to cater to a wide range of "weirdos".
Yoga is easier to do than most would have you believe.
If you are under a lot of stress and so are carrying tension in your neck and shoulders and you watch it happen and consciously relax those areas then you are DOING yoga. It is all about connecting ones mind and ones body and allowing them to function together to promote good health and peace of mind and so contribute to the same in the world and people around you.
No "weirdo" religion required. But I suppose that is there for those who seem to need it.
So
Stir that fruit in with full conscious awareness. Become one with the spoon.
: )
And if you do most likely you won't mistake that half dead bee for a blue berry. That happened at work this year by the way. Bees were coming in the shop all summer and croaking. Some times in people's snacks.
: (
being "cultured"
Cultured - tee hee.
I actually did yoga when I was young. But now, my body is a little regressive when it comes to flexibility. One might even say that I'm a little back-tier-ium in that respect (just to continue the cultured metaphor). ;-)
I have also suggested to my neighbor that we build for him the Tom Caspar torsion box workbench. It's the one I have, and it's the one we used for the little introductory project we did together. More costly to build, but very heavy, and very flat.
I can't help it. I have to ask . . .
>very flat<
How do you know it is flat ?
What tests were made to verify this ?
And more importantly . . .
if it wasn't/isn't . . .
how does one correct it ?
For instance if it were to change with a change in shop location or weather/seasonal fluctuation.
How flat is flat?
David J. Marks does it with winding sticks and straightedges, and so do we.
New Fangled Flat
I will say that when I considered building this bench, that I had concerns about building it in such a way that the top was built flat. You have 3 disassociated surfaces there that have to line up and be flat:
1) The front "L"
2) The MDF inserts
3) the back section
And what does one do if the front surface (the "L") has to be flattened? How does it then line up with the MDF inserts?
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