Newbie needs help with finishing – several questions
Hi all, this is my first time posting and in fact the first time I have attempted to finish anything, so please be kind – and SUPER specific 🙂
I hired a guy to make a kitchen table for me out of ash. Unfortunately his mother had a stroke and before he could finish the table he left town. So I now have an unfinished table top in my garage. I have to finish it, and then figure out how to attach it to the pedestal — but that’s a problem for another day.
My finishing questions have to do with sealing, raising grain, using a slurry and hand-rubbing. The look I am going for is kind of natural, not super glossy, and very smooth and buttery. I will not be staining it.
I plan to use Original Waterlox Sealer/Finish, based on what the guy told me before heading out.
My questions are:
1)Â Can I use the Waterlox to create the slurry, or do I need to use a different oil based product, say, a pure tung oil to make the slurry? Is 320-400 grit (wet/dry) the right grit?
2)Â Do I need to raise the grain before filling/slurrying it?
3) Do I need to put down a sealer somewhere in this process? (I mean, if I can’t use the Waterlox as a slurry agent.)
4)Â According to Waterlox’s website, it is not wise to sand in between the first few coats, but their instructions are a bit hazy after that. When to sand, and with what grit — I think this is because there’s so much personal preference involved. So what have you guys done that has worked for you?
5) Lastly – when it comes to the final coat – buffing? With a cloth or steel wool?
Thanks to all who answer — I was never expecting to have to do this, but now that I am I’m excited to get started and see the results (eventually!).
Replies
Yes. You can use Waterlox to make a sanding slurry using 340-400 grit. You should work is small areas, sanding in the direction of the grain, as the slurry will start to stiffen up in a fairly short time. When it starts to stiffen, you will need to wipe off the excess wiping cross grain (you want to leave the slurry in the grain pores).
No need for a sealer or grain raising for this process.
You should consider using a grain filler like Aquacoat or Crystalac as an alternative. You may get better results with less effort. There are numerous brands available. I would suggest that you obtain some scraps of the same or similar species (oak would work if you can't find ash) and try different processes and materials before doing it on the final piece. Follow mfg. directions.
The comments about sanding between coats refers to after the coat is dry, not the slurry. Let your sense of touch tell you when it is needed. I like to use a fine (320) grit with a light touch to just remove dust nibs between coats.
After the final coat is fully cured, I like to polish by wet (water) sanding with 1000 and 2000 grit wet/dry and then apply some paste wax. Always sand in the direction of the grain. Sometimes, I may use some automotive polishing compound before the wax.
Thank you!! I have been reading about both Aquacoat and Crystalac but many people have pointed out that it shrinks more because it is water based and therefore one still ends up with only partially filled pores. What is your opinion about that? I was also thinking maybe using pure Tung oil as the slurry-generating material, because I figured the Waerlox would go over it quite well. But then I have read that it never truly dries ...
I don't have a lot of experience with either aquacoat or crystalac. They were just two examples that came to mind and both are clear which would work well for an unstained piece. As I said, there are a lot of other brands, some oil based. Since you are not staining, you need to be careful of your choice. Some will add color or mask the natural color somewhat. I know that Aquacoat recommends 2-3 coats; probably because of the shrinkage.
I would not use either linseed oil or tung oil alone. However you could mix equal parts of linseed (or tung), varnish (poly or alkyd), and mineral spirits (or turpentine). This will make a nice slurry and cure hard in a day or two. For faster drying you can add a touch of japan drier. You could also use danish oil which is very similar to the mix. Again, I strongly suggest making some test panels.
I'm going to make a suggestion to you and other newbies who might be looking for advice on tools or techniques: search for a nearby woodworkers' guild or club. I waited 6 years to join my local guild and have regretted the delay ever since. I'm lucky enough to belong to a large, we'll equipped guild with many retired members who have vast knowledge which they share freely. Our guild has excellent machinery that is maintained by members with the necessary skills. The shop is available 7 days a week and you are trained before you can use it. Every officer and supervisor is a volunteer who enjoys the hobby. Some are retired cabinet makers. The biggest benefit is the opportunity to interact with other woodworkers, most of whom are more knowledgeable than yourself. We offer many classes that teach skills for specific projects like table construction. We build many charitable projects each year to support needy organizations in our community. We provide lumber at discounted prices to our members. If you don't have a local guild, start one. Ours started with the efforts of 5 people, including a local craftsman and now numbers over 700 members. Many members have no home shop or power equipment because of what the guild provides. Check with a local tool shop to see if they know of a guild or a person who might allow a newbie to use their shop on a limited basis. Visit my guild by searching for greenville woodworkers guild in greenville, sc if interested.
Good wood!
Jim G
For a first finishing project, trying to use Waterlox, sanding, filling pores with the slurry, etc, is a lot to ask. You could pretty easily end up with a mess. I think youll be a lot happier using poly. If you want tgge pores filled, you can sand between coats until you build the level you want. Light coats.
@John_C2: I kind of agree with you, but I really want a super smooth finish; buttery, like aged wood. Is there a way to get close to that with poly?
I'm not sure what you mean by buttery? I would guess that you don't want a really thick finish?
CatsinQ | Sep 07, 2019 03:31pm | #5
"@John_C2: I kind of agree with you, but I really want a super smooth finish; buttery, like aged wood. Is there a way to get close to that with poly?"
Regardless of which method or product you use, you get the "buttery" finish with the final polish using very fine wet/dry sandpaper, maybe polishing compound, and a finish coat of paste wax.
@Bilyo: you mean an auto polishing compound and Johnson paste wax on top of that?
Yes. If my finish is a hard film type finish like poly, acrylic, or alkyd varnish, I will sometimes use auto polishing compound and paste wax after a wet sanding with 1000 and 2000 grit
I'm going to answer out of order :)
2) You can raise the grain with a damp cloth and a light sanding once it's dry, 320-400. Oil based finishes on ash shouldn't raise the grain very much but it never hurts to do this step
1) I love using a diluted poly for my finishes on bare wood (no stain), applied with 400-600 grit wet/dry sandpaper. Waterlox should do the same. If you apply with the 400 grit with the grain and wipe it off against the grain, you should fill most of the pores. The 2nd+ coats will want 600 grit
3) No sealer needed, actually just the opposite, you want to attack that very top layer of wood to get the smooth finish you're looking for.
4) Sanding between coats depends on the air quality in your finishing area. Dust nibs are your enemy. If you're getting a smooth finish, no need to sand. Otherwise after the second coat, try a dry 400 grit very light rub down, like one pass only.
5) The final step depends on the finish sheen you want. Buffing will make it shiny if you go with a really fine compound. Steel wool will be the opposite extreme and it will be very dull, even with 0000. See what it looks like after a day of curing and see if you like it.
Hope this helps and that I'm not too late to the party and you're already done Lol
@jpg13, I am in Panama City Beach FL and I've never heard of a woodworking guild here but I am definitely going to look into that!
And to everyone, thank you so much! Unfortunately my project is now on hold because the custom tabletop I ordered is a wreck and I don't know if I can use it. I may have to try and get the guy to re-do it, or find another person and pay for it a second time. I'm kind of sick at heart about it.
Anyway, I appreciate you all and will be back!
Hey,
You could look in Highland Woodworking's library section. There are great articles on finishing by pro furniture refinisher A. Noel
Hope this helps.
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