I have grown an interest in kitchen cabinet making and would like to know is there a place that can help a beginner like myself?
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I think you're there actually. Course, if you want a bit more in depth answer, you could do an amazon search for books on cabinet making. Or...if you want to speed to a pretty good source, try "The Home Cabinetmaker" by Monte Burch (it's a popular science book) Probably available at powellsbooks.com, or maybe even Amazon.com
Or, just keep asking folks here. They're pretty friendly and have lots of different experiences to share.
thanks for the info. I have a few books on cabinet making and they are very interesting
Fortunately for you, kitchen cabinet construction is a lot easier that most people realize. The challenges are threefold, good planning with detailed drawings, getting the right hardware options for the way you use your kitchen (it's pre-eminently functional at the end of the day), and lastly, working with larger pieces in your shop.
Lot's of books are available, however I have never found them to be entirely satisfying, but it's a good place to start. I find that browsing through some of the hardware catalogs is also useful from the standpoint of seeing what hardware I want to build my cabinets around. For example, whether you choose side mount extension slides or Blum Tandem undermount will affect your drawer dimensions.
A desktop CAD program can really make a difference here. You will be making a number of cabinet units that piece together so it's helpful to have a CAD program to see how they come together. Think about every detail, for example, will you range have an exhaust hood or a pop up unit? Stainless or in wood to match the cabinets?
Lastly, the dimensions of your cabinets are really important to how they will look. There is a thing called the "golden rectangle" you should look into. What it says is that there is a mathematical relationship between height and width that just looks "right" and it is 1.618. Put another way, a box that is 16" high and 10" wide looks better than one that is 16" high and 12" wide. If you are building your own doors keep this in mind when you layout the cabinets.
Edited 12/28/2005 2:20 am ET by tangomike
thanks does the deminisons of the door equal the formula. I think that is the only thing that scares me about cabinet construction the door deminsons
A trip down to HD with a tape measure and pencil/paper can take some of the fear out of it. There's a reason kitchen cabinets across the board pretty much follow the same basic demension, they just seem to work better.
Something else I forgot to mention is that you should decide what kind of countertop and appliances you will be using before building the cabinets. These decision affect your cabinet design.
The Golden Ratio is also used in room dimensions. Actually, if someone looked around, it's all over the place (sorry Donald Trump) and has been for a few thousand years, thanks to the ancient Greeks.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
"has been for a few thousand years, thanks to the ancient Greeks."thanks to a Greek sculptor named Phidias, which is why 1.61803 is known as Phi in mathematics. Pythagoras and Euclid are credited with the discovery and sometimes Hippasus, who was later killed by the Pythagoreans for discovering that the square root of 2 is an irrational number, which the "golden ratio" is also... the Greeks did take their math seriously. However, it's also worth pointing out that while the Greeks get all the credit it is the Egyptians that may be more deserving considering that many of the pyramids, including the Great Pyramid of Giza, are also based on Phi and of course pre-date the Greeks by about 2,000 years.More totally off the subject thread hijacking: the dimensions of the modern credit card are near perfect representations of the Golden Ratio.
Edited 1/2/2006 10:47 am ET by tangomike
I have no problem with the dimensions of the golden rectangle. I've used that relationship on purpose quite a few times. However, I think it is misleading to represent that ratio as the "right" one. There are countless other considerations one must be mindful of when designing. Blind adherance to any one design rule will lead to redundance and boredom.
"I think it is misleading to represent that ratio as the 'right' one."it's just a place to start, nothing more than that.
Tangomike makes a very good point - ya gotta figure out what you want the kitchen to do before starting to lay out the cabinets. Here is a great resource to get you thinking a bit "out of the box" (pun intended): http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0932767044/103-6795310-8538247?v=glance&n=283155
The author was a pro cook and is a certified kitchen designer so brings a unique perspective vs. the run-of-the-mill HD "designer". His site: http://www.donsilvers.com/
Edit to add: Oh yea, enjoy! I still have the doors and drawer fronts to install but working in your own custom-designed, custom-built kitchen is a joy hard to describe!
Edited 1/1/2006 2:07 am by wrudiger
"working in your own custom-designed, custom-built kitchen is a joy hard to describe!"Not too mention a heck of a lot cheaper. The maple cabinets in my kitchen quoted out at almost $30k when we did the remodel. My cost on the rough maple and all the hardware (all top grade hardware, including full extension pullout shelving in every cabinet) was about $3,500 plus another $2k for the granite countertops. I probably had 80 hours of work in total. There's a lot I would do differently if given the chance to do it again but after 2 years of use everything is working quite well. My wife keeps reminding me that I'm not completely finished, there's still 1 toekick piece I need to make... funny how the 15 minutes jobs can draw out for so long!
If you live near a technical school that has night classes, some will offer woodworking or cabinetmaking courses. There are also quite a few books available on making cabinets, boxes, etc.
One of the best tips I heard was at the WoodWorking Show a few years ago, from Marc Adams. He hired the previous owner of his cabinet shop to help out part time (retirement had him bored out of his mind) and the "helper" was looking at him like a dog watching TV because Marc was trying to fit the face frames to the boxes, which he built first. They had spent a few days on this job and most full sets of cabinets usually took him weeks to do. The old guy asked why he was trying to do it that way and he recommended making the faces first, then fit the boxes to them. They were done by the end of the week. His point was that in a production environment, it's not high art, it's business. If it's going to happen once, make them the way you want.
The face is what will be seen and unless European style cabinets are being made and installed, the boxes usually shouldn't have flush sides. European cabs are frequently mounted to a strip or panel on the wall, making them go on straight. Face frame cabinets are more forgiving of uneven wall surfaces due to the face being slightly wider than the carcass.
This was a free seminar and before I went, I had been thinking about making my own kitchen cabinets. After, I was absolutely set on doing them myself. He went on to talk about the joinery, the reality of how long most cabinets stay in a kitchen (due to home sales and people wanting to change things, regardless of who built what in their own home) and that making them with simple joints is fine, since the only thing hanging on the face is the doors, which don't weigh much. Sure, it was the first set of cabinets I made and I will do some things differently the next time, but there will definitely be a next time.
I guess to add some advice to what has already been given......
Making a square box is key. Without a square box, it will just compound the problems from the drawers to the doors and drawer fronts.
One thing I've found to be helpful is to find the square corner of the sheet and mark it with an "L" in pencil. You will start off with those two sides whether you're cross cutting or doing rips.
As you go along and cut the sheet, mark the continual square corner of the board. That way, when you go back to it, you won't have to check it each time.
Making a square drawer box is key too. If your drawer box isn't square, your drawer fronts wont lie flat against the face either.
Measuring corner to corner is more accurate than using a square.
Why? Because many squares aren't square. I went to HD the other day and went through 10 of them before I found one that was square. Some were out as much as 1/8"
As mentioned, a good place to start would be a technical trade school, or you could even contact the local high school and see if they offer night woodworking classes.
If you've never used a table saw or only a few times, I'd highly suggest you take some classes somewhere before you start building things.
In regard to appliances, there are many things to consider. It's not always just building a box. Sink bases don't require full stretchers as they'll get in the way of the sink. Sink bases only require a front apron and corner blocks. With cooktops, they require typically at least 2" of free space below it and nothing that's combustable. That's only the begining.
Before you cut one piece of wood, read the requirements of each appliance.
One last thing I didn't see mentioned is, you NEED to learn the spec's of kitchen cabinets and what to leave for standard appliances.
Once you get the hang of it, a lot of it becomes all relative, but you need to always be on your toes.
I started out in Jr High, High School and then a technical trade school. They will basically teach you how to use the standard machinery and how to keep your fingers.
Good luck
Edited 1/1/2006 1:05 pm ET by Woodwrkr
Edited 1/1/2006 1:07 pm ET by Woodwrkr
Thanks for the tips. I have a few books on cabinet making and have the tools to do it. I have been a Computer Technician/Electrician for about 7 years and I am looking for a new hobby. I have done wood working forabout 10 years but never cabinets. I have researched standard spec and have a true feel for it now
Well, you're on the way to the joy of cabinetmaking.
I've been in this business for 17 years/6 years self-employed and I'm getting tired of doing it to make a living.'
You're better off keeping it as a hobby. I use to enjoy making things, but now it's just a job and at times more of a chore.
You'll enjoy it more if you don't have the stress of wondering where the next job is going to come from and how to pay that next bill.
It takes at least 5 years to really get your name out there and it's a quite an investment too.
May I take a look at the site you found in regard to what the proper specs are? I'd like to see how accurate it is.
http://www.superkitchens.com let me know if this is acurate
Dishwashers - 24" wide (for installation in a cabinet, "Correct"
Free-standing and drop-in ranges - 3-" wide "Depends on the manufacturer"
Cook Tops - 30", 36" wide. (Some modular units available in 42" and 48" wide) "Some cooktops require more space from combustable materials"
Wall Ovens - 27", 30", 36" wide. (Note: since wall ovens are always built-in, actual oven widths vary. The dimensions given here represent the cabinet sizes required.) "Yes, but if you're custom making it, I'd leave a bit more room inside. The actual oven is typically 1-1/2" less than the cabinet required. I never make the oven cabinet with combustable materials, meaning, I never put a finish on the interior of the cabinet. With the kitchen I'm working on now, it's a 30" oven, but they recommend a 33" cabinet. That way it gives it some air flow room."
Refrigerators - free-standing models, 30 - 36" wide. (Built-in models, up to 48" wide) "I would be careful with this one. I had a client who had a 36" opening but the fridge was 1/2" bigger than the 36" opening. If you're getting into totally built-in refrigerators like Sub Zero, it's a totally different ball game"
Trash Compactors - 15" and 18" wide "Correct"
Microwave Ovens - Varied "Eh, yes and no. Typically the microwaves go over the range which is a 30" wide opening. "That is the typical standard. When doing microwaves above a range, you want the microwave to sit at the same level as the bottom of the upper cabinets or a bit above.
Sinks - Varied, but most are designed to fit in 30", 33" or 36" base cabinets. (Be sure to check manufacturer's specifications on your final selection!) "They are correct when they say to check the specs. The sink I'm working on now is a farm sink and sits flush with the top of the cabinets and the countertop overlaps it. You need to screw cleats to the inside of the cabinet sides for the sink to rest on, vs making a bottom for it to sit on. You also want to make the sink cabinet a bit bigger in width because it makes it easier to mount a laminate countertop with the clips.
A few things I didn't see with specific answers are"
Standard depth of base kitchen cabinet 24" d
Standard depth of upper cabinet 12" **Note** Be sure to make sure a plate will still fit! I use 1/2" backs for all the cabinets I make. I hate 1/4". The doors will be 3/4" and need 1/8" space from the backside of the door to the face of the cabinet to make most hinges work properly. 12"-1/2 back-7/8 door= 10-5/8" interior depth. "This would be for european style cabinetry, which is what I mostly make and it's easier to make.
Edited 1/1/2006 11:10 pm ET by Woodwrkr
Woodwrkr and All ,
Just a word of caution in regards to microwave ovens . Typically the only MW that goes over the cooktop is a hood MW combo , also no matter where they are located the shelf height they sit on is an important element .
Some states have a code that specs the maximum height , this is a safety issue . I simply will not mount them too high . Think about lifting a hot liquid item about chest high and spilling it down your frontside , ouch ! Especially for children .
When designing and laying out a kitchen I do my best to locate the MW in a user friendly place . A pantry type cabinet with a countertop ht MW works well and steals no countertop space .
Ultimately we need to make our kitchens correct for the end users
dusty
Edited 1/3/2006 1:44 pm ET by notDusty
You're right dusty. I guess I just assumed someone would know better. Thanks!
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