I’ve just completed a mahogany (phillipine) shadow box that will be hanging on a wall so will not see a lot of abuse. I’ve not used shellac before and thought that this would be a good project to try it on. My questions are:
1. Since it comes in very few shades, what’s the best way to darken? Can dyes be mixed in with the shellac or should that be done to the wood as a separate step?
2. How about a sanding sealer. The wood is quite porous and I was thinking that maybe a sanding sealer might darken the wood as well as sealing? I’ve never used sanding sealer before either.
Thanks in advance for any help.
Replies
I've only recently adopted shellac as my favorite finish, so there are others here with more experience than me, but here goes.
Sanding sealer is typically a 1-2 pound cut of shellac. It goes on quickly, dries fast and encapsulates the nibs in the grain so you can sand them off. Lately, I have been using a 1-1/2 pound cut for all my shellac needs. It builds slowly, so it takes many coats, but I like that because I can see how the finish is developing as I go along. If 2 coats looks right, I stop; if not then I can go to 3 or 4 or 5 or whatever. I'm not a production shop so I'm not in a hurry.
You can buy flakes in a variety of colors from super blond (nearly clear) to dark garnet (a deep reddish brown). There is also lemon (bright yellow) which is a great grain popper. In my experience, blonde is still a little bit amber and in a 1-1/2 pound cut, garnet doesn't darken all that dramatically.
The toughest thing I've had with shellac is developing the patience to brush it on and leave it alone. I had been accostomed to brushing varnish where you can brush and brush and still have your brush marks flow out. Not so with shellac - you get one or two strokes at the most. With a light cut, most brush marks will go away when the shellac dries and those that don't can be sanded out easily before the next coat. I finish by applying a wax/naptha mix with 0000 steel wool and the result is ooh la la...
SheriDi,
Shellac is by far my favorite finish. Nothing equals it for ease of application, appearance, reparability and known track record.
The dark shellac can be difficult to apply, because it can leave lap marks. I use a lot of de-waxed dark shellac, but I thin it down and build the colors in layers and pay careful attention to the brushing. You can add dye to shellac and the results can be impressive, but here too, the application has to be done carefully. In general, I'd color the wood in a separate step.
I have never used a sanding sealer with shellac.
Rob Millard
http://www.americanfederalperiod.com
SheriDi,
Shellac is great but you won't know that unless you play a bit with it. With your mahogany I've gone both ways either dying first and then shellac or just garnet shellac. Mixing the dye in the shellac is doable but is another learning curve to master.
A key to understanding shellac is that the best finish is really quite thin and very hard. You sand after applying 3-4 coats of 1.5 lb cut. Then the fun part begins; using a french polish technique, you pad the shellac on to level the surface, eliminate any drips or runs and bring out a beautiful finish. You'll quickly learn that if you make ia mistake it's easily repairable.
I foliwed a protocol I found on the web for finishing a violin.
Go to Homestead Finishing - look in Articles for Padding Shellac. I really like this technique - no brush strokes. I use 1.5# from flakes - like the other responders above. Even with something fairly small - just did a 14" x 20" table top - by the time you have gotten to the end of your first pass, the surface is usually ready to start a second pass.
Putting down multiple coats doesn't take a lot of time. ALthough, I usually stop after 3, wait an hour, knock down the surface with 3M 600g Gold, and then keep going. Before rubbing out, I wait a couple days
Thanks all for the responses and tips.
I've got some scrap from my shadow box project that I'm anxious to use for practice now!
There you go - exactly right - practice - won't take long to get the hang of it. Good luck - let us know how it turns out, eh?
Well my first venture into shellacing went pretty well. It was a very small, simple project so not so much room for mistakes! I'm ready to graduate to a larger project - a pair of nightstands with figured veneer tops.
I've mixed another batch of de-waxed shellac (2 lb.), but in this batch I notice some cloudiness at the bottom of the jar. Is this wax, and should I now filter this mixture to remove it? I didn't notice it on the first batch I mixed, but that was only 1 lb. It could very well have been there, I just didn't see it.
On the figured veneer tops there's a possibility that I'll use several coats of shellac and a coat or two of P&L varnish for more protection.
Thanks again.
Well...........kinda hard to tell from here, Sheri.
Did the flakes say they are dewaxed? Reputable source?
Wax typically shows up in the bottom half or so - it is white, cloudy, opaque. You can get rid of this by carefully pouring off / decanting the clear part - like making clarified butter for your lobster or Chesapeake blue crabs. (I don't know anything about how one eats that imposter crab stuff from the Left Coast - hardy-har-har-har. THAT oughta get some return fire).
Sometimes I get a "murkiness" that isn't wax, but this goes away when I filter it through a few layers of cheesecloth (which I recommend any time you mix your own).
I have no experience with the P+L, so I don't know one way or the other, but some top coats are not compatible with waxy shellac. Maybe someone else knows? If you use dewaxed you are always good to go - AFAIK.
Careful. . . . I'm on the left coast, but I'm one of the few sane ones!
The cloudiness is at least one third of the mix, so I'm assuming it's wax. I bought if from shellac.net and it was advertised as de-waxed.
Thanks for your input!
Gee - it sure sounds like wax, Sheri. I haven't bought from them, so I don't really know what to say. I get my stuff from Homestead. You can still decant it, though, with no ill effects, but you've paid for the stuff you will toss out, so that kinda puts a crimp in the cost equation.
You might want to call them and ask Whiskey-Tango-Foxtrot?
Also - don't buy any crabs from them - probably that imitation dungeness stuff people pass off as "crabs". :)
Have a good Thanksgiving, and good luck - sounds like it has been successful so far - and when you ran into something that didn't look correct, you slammed on the brakes and asked around - good approach, IMO
Yes, I guess I'm a bit disappointed to see something I paid good money for go down the drain. Oh well, have a great Thanksgiving yourself!
Ask them about that when you call. If they are reputable and made an honest mistake, they should give you some $$$ back.
I have been buying shellac from shellac.net for a long time and have NEVER had a problem.
Edited 11/22/2009 12:33 pm ET by Woody1202
Spotcheck:I know exactly what you mean, it doesn't taste right to a boy who grew up on the Bay.Leon
Hello Sheri,
I purchased some de-waxed Hock brand shellac from Woodcraft. After mixing, I always seem to have a cloudy sediment in the jar, but because it was Hock shellac and advertised as de-waxed I never gave it a thought, I simply shook it up and applied it to whatever I was working on at the time. So far I have not seen any ill affects nor do I have any concerns. I have been mixing shellac from this one pound bag for some time now, when it's gone maybe I will try another brand just to see if there is a difference, but I doubt there will be.
Bob, Tupper Lake, NY
Thanks Bob, I'll probably give it a try as is.
Bob,
I'm using the same shellac flakes and have the same "sediment". I plan to strain the stuff through some cheese cloth (per multiple posters here) on the next go around. I've only been mixing up a cup at a time and I find there are "bits" close to the end. I think the straining will eliminate these.
Regards,
Mack"Close enough for government work=measured with a micrometer, marked with chalk and cut with an axe"
Straining home dissolved shellac is a good idea. It will remove any contaminates that may be in the flakes. However, it will have no or only minimal effect on any residual wax.Howie.........
I'm sure you're right. I only buy the dewaxed flakes from Hock via Highland Hdwr. I don't want to mess around trying to dewax!
Is there any advantage in any situation to flakes that are NOT dewaxed??
Regards,
Mack"Close enough for government work=measured with a micrometer, marked with chalk and cut with an axe"
The only circumstance I know is where you need really dark grade shellac such as you would see from seed lac or button lac. These are sometimes of benefit to antique restorers.
And of course since I never contemplate using polyrethane varnish on furniture, and have only occasional interest in waterborne top coats over shellac, it makes little difference. You don't need to have dewaxed shellac under oil based varnish except polyurethane varnish. Dewaxed is a little more moisture resistant than waxed, but also a bit more difficult to sand.
If you are using shellac as your final finish, there is no need to used dewaxed shellac. Dewaxed shellac is only required if you plan on overcoating it with a polyurethane varnish or a waterborne finish. P&L #38 is a non-poly varnish and can be applied over a shellac containing its natural wax.I have found that even "dewaxed" shellac flakes can have some residual wax. It is generally so little that it has little or no affect on the actual finish. If it bothers you, merely decant the shellac above the residue and go to work.Howie.........
Thanks Howie. My main concern was the P&L, so I think I'm good to go!
Sheri
When you mix up shellac even the best dewaxed will give a sediment (button shellack- lots). for you best work decant off the top two thirds , The rest can be used for sanding sealer, or a base for paint. Also have you checked your alcholl, if its not 99% by volume it will leave a cloudy residue. If its less than 97% it will cloud the finish on the piece. I often shellac over gold leaf I mix in the sediment, any discoloration will show up far more on gold than wood, its never a problem. But water in the alcohol (only 4%) will cloud the finish, if you leave the top off the bottle it will take water from the air very quickly.
Good info Marco, I have not checked the Alcohol. I'm away from home right now but will check when I get home. I purchased it at Home Depot so maybe it's not the purest!
Sheri
Denatured alcohol always contains ingredients other than ethanol, with methanol being one of the common choices to make it not drinkable. Now, since methanol is cheaper than ethanol, some brands are closer to 50% methanol. Shellac dissolves well in methanol, but it evaporates faster than ethanol, and is toxic to boot. Check the MSDS to see for any particular brand. The only way to get pure ethanol is to buy Everclear, at least in states where the 190 proof version is available. But then you pay liquor taxes to dissolve your shellac, and still the remaining 5% is water.
And, even if you start with very high purity ethanol, and that's what the label and the MSDS both say, it would never be 99% pure in use because alcohol (both ethanol and methanol) naturally absorbs water from the atmosphere. If I recall right, it will reach a little over 4% moisture content from the air. That amount won't effect shellac and would well neigh impossible to avoid, even if you could purchase anhydrous alcohol to begin with at reasonable cost.
Not arguing - just an observation -
I have never had any visible sediment with the flakes I use from Homestead and I use the DA off the shelf from the neighborhood Ace Hardware. After mixing I run it through some cheese cloth and (for extra or ultra pale) I end up with perfectly clear light amber shellac, looking for wome wood to jump on. I assume the garnet has similar properties, but can't see through that mix, of course.
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