New DJ-20 – same old question about alignment and setup
As the title says I have a new brand new – just out of the box Delta DJ-20. I spent the morning assembling and some of this afternoon trying to fine tune…. My question (along with some others) is how much fine tuning should be required for something out of the box and for this caliber of machinery?
Q1. The fence appears to be flat, but when I lock the fence in place the caming action appears to twist the fence noticably out of aligment. This is annoying obviously b/c I can get the fence setup perfectly but locking it in place throws it out along the top of the fence (.0015″) @ 4″ .. but on a 10″ wide board doesn’t get you a nice square edge. Even on a 4″ face it is not perfect. I am assuming the fence is flat as I laid it face down on the infeed table and there was no rocking motion from corner to corner…..but it is a heavy piece of iron so I wonder if the shear weight of it would actually make it lay flat?
Q2. I am ending up with a convex cut when edge jointing (noticable over 16″). Clamps can pull it back but over longer lengths it will be more difficult. Don’t ask me if the tables are co-planer b/c the damn thing is new out of the factory and I would hope that they come out right the first time. I don’t have a long machinest straight edge so have no accurate way that I know of to tell. Is there something obvious to check first other than assuming the table alignment is out?
Q3. Snipe? I’ve read that I should check the outfeed table. It is very minor and seems hit and miss and does replicate every time. The knives are all set the same as they came out of the box. I did (I think mistakenly) adjust the outfeed table as the fence slide was set lower then the outfeed table. After doing that I noticed that there is alot of play in the mounting bolts for the entire fence mount …enough that I didn’t need to move the table. I should have left the outfeed table alone.
I am not a professional wood worker (serious hobbiest) and maybe expect more than I should from this machine? It was a good price at $1,550 Can. The Delta manual that comes with the unit is OK for putting it together but is very limited in its explanation(if at all) for trouble shooting. I’m a picture and diagram guy …. If any of you expereinced DJ-20 users could shed some light that would much appreciated.
Thx … Ray
Replies
Solution for Q1?
If I understand the question, you are saying that the cam-lock on the jointer locks the fence out of 90? On my DJ-20, for the fence, you can loosen a screw that holds the cam-lock in place. From here, you can then set the fence to 90 without have the camlock pull it out of 90, then tighten the fence in place (not the cam-lock) and once the fence is locked, set and tighten the cam-lock.
Tuning required!
Ray,
I have no idea about your fence issue. My fence actually has a very slight twist (noticable with a square between the fence and beds at either end).
Your #2 and #3 questions had me puzzled at first as they seem to contradict yourself. Usually, if your edges are coming out convex, you should lower the outfeed table. But, if you are getting snipe at the tail end, then you need to raise the outfeed table. On the boards you are test-jointing, are you by chance positioning them with a convex edge down in the first place? If perfect technique is not used, then it will start and finished convex. However, if you start with a concave board, the jointer should take out the concavity and leave you with a flat edge.
I bought my DJ-20 about two and a half years ago and took the time to get it set up just the way I like. This involved a call to the helpful staff at Delta who e-mailed me a few pages with text and diagrams showing how to adjust the jointer for co-planar which was not included in the manual. Yes, I said co-planar. It was good but I wanted it more precise.
Don't have a straight edge? In John White's Care and Repair of Shop Machines, page 26-31, he details how to make and set-up a master bar. It's not technically a straight edge, but serves the same purpose in this case. You'll need three lengths of MDF and nine drywall screws and a maybe fifteen minutes to make and set it up.
Hi Chris,
I'll have to go back to the machine tonight and make sure that what I thought I was describing is actually correct. The edges are definitley convex but I will have to pay attention to my technique and how that edge is getting to that point.
I have spoken briefly with the Delta / Porter Cable mobile service guy for the lower mainland but trying to describe something over the phone (or in a mesage like this) without the unit in front of you can be difficult. I'll have to order a copy of John's book - his past comments and advice on other things I have had problems with or others have always been spot on. The master bar also sounds easier and cheaper than trying to explain to my wife why I need to purchase expensive machinist tools to adjust my already expensive purchase :).
I may be just naive with how I expected this jointer to perform out of the box, especially for the amount of money spent, but do not mind the learning process also to get it to that point if need be.
Thank you for taking time to reply my questions. Updates as to sucess or failure forthcoming.
Cheers ... Ray
Some things are easier once you've done them once
Ray,
Are you in the same lower mainland as I am? I live in Port Moody, BC. If you are nearby, I'm guessing the mobile service guy is Dave of Tancott Equipment - he's a good guy and helped me with my first jointer and sold me the DJ-20 I currently own (long story).
Personally, I don't expect anything to perform at it's best right out of the box. Between the jostling of shipping (at best) and climate changes (moreso with wood products like wooden planes), and my personal tolerances, I plan to spend time tuning my equipment up the way I like it. Whether it's a good comparison or not, Japanese hand planes arrive essentially as a kit, a body, blade, and chip-breaker - YOU have to do all the fine tuning and I wouldn't even consider it usable when it arrives.
Hi Chris ... I am just a couple of hours east up the Trans Canada in Salmon Arm. The mobile service guy I spoke to was Dave Carter who used to be the service manger? for the Porter Cable / Delta shop in Burnaby before Dewalt bought them. He is now a solo service guy.
I've ordered John White's book from Lee Valley (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=64099&cat=1,46096,46119&ap=1), as well as the 36" machinist straight edge (I am uptight about this stuff) and it will serve use for other things in the shop. Hopefully Canada Post puts it the mail box sometime before the end of the week.
Work and other things have prevented my getting back into the shop to figure things out entirely, but the little bit of time I have spent with the jointer tells me that bad technique (or lack of) is responsible for some of the error.
I still have to figure out the fence issue as having reread jointermans fix I realize I did not read it correctly. Delta Technical Service has a .pdf on the website for the table adjustment but I won't go there unitl I have thoroughly checked out the table alignment with the help of JW's book.
Appreciate your input to this question. Thanks again.... Ray
Patience and a little know-how
All you need to get well-tuned equipment is knowing the right stuff and patience to get it set up as you please. Rocket science it ain't. Good luck.
Jointer set up
Where can you get this book by John White??? Off of Amazon??? What is the exact title of his book???Thanks WW 57
Informative, and can't beat the price, either!
http://www.amazon.com/Care-Repair-Shop-Machines-White/dp/156158424X
EDIT: I don't know how to create a link. But if I copy a link, I can apparently paste it as I have done below:
Care & Repair of Shop Machines
Can anyone tell me how to make a link?
John White Book
Thank you for the info on the book. I was able to cut and paste to the link. I think I will get the book. WW 57
Ray, Same old answer for
Ray,
Same old answer for your same old question. If you contact Delta, customer service, and ask them they do have instructions for doing an 8-way alignment of the tables for that jointer. If you take your time and do this alignment then your new DJ-20 will work just as well as you had hoped that it would. You will need a long straight edge and a set of feeler guages to do this alignment, but a straight 6' aluminum rule will work just fine (at the store compare two rules/all four edges, any errors will be very obvious). No need to spend big bucks for a machinists straight edge unless you are that anal about things. Why Delta doesn't just include these instructions with the machine is a real mystery. Once properly tuned the DJ-20 is really an awesome machine.
Not real sure about your fence issue, hard to tell from over here. Best of luck.
Finally had the Delta rep come by and check out the problem with the fence .. it was short discussion as the problem still persists and is very obvious. The long and short of it is that Delta will replace the whole unit, which is a real suprise to me. We discussed replacing parts but he is willing to do the whole thing. I'm not going to argue with that!
Excited and curious to see how another will perform.
Cheers ... Ray
""This is annoying obviously
""This is annoying obviously b/c I can get the fence setup perfectly but locking it in place throws it out along the top of the fence (.0015") @ 4" .. but o""
you are talking 15/10,000"s of an inch,( 1 1/2 of 1,000 of an "). your pretty close. that is pretty good measuring. what tools are you using to get this reading
ron
Hi Ron .... .015" I might of
Hi Ron .... .015" I might of slipped an extra decimal in there. The gap opening between the edge of the square and the fence, depending upon where you measured and where you set the fence to 90, ranged between .015 - .005". The delta rep tried it a couple of times and it was obvious. I can hand joint about as good a bevel as the this machine does.
With the fence flat on the infeed table there is an obvious twist in the fence once I slipped the feeler gauges underneath. The fence is heavy enough that it will not rock corner to corner. Tool wise ... Starrett No. 55 6" precision square, Lee valley 36" steel machinist straight edge and feeler gauges.... and an uptight attitude when I'm spending a mortgage payment on a piece of equipment :)
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