Replies

1. 
   oldusty | Nov 20, 2009 06:47am | #1

   you might try some wet lacquer thinner rubbed rags while the oil is fresh still .

1. 
   stillfigurinitout | Nov 20, 2009 08:21am | #2

   Thanks oldusty,  I didn't know to use lacquer thinner.   I'll give it a try.

2. 
   HowardAcheson | Nov 20, 2009 06:18pm | #3

   Is it red oak or white oak?

   Red oak has very deep pores and short of using a chemical paint stripper, you will not get much of the finish out of the pores.

   Did you wipe off the excess after letting it set on the surface for 15-20 minutes?

   Note, there is a thread here about the desirability of testing your finishing plans on scrap before committing to your project. If you don't do that, you are letting your project be the test. All the experienced finishers I have known test the complete finishing process before finishing the project.

   Howie.........
1. 
   forestgirl | Nov 20, 2009 07:57pm | #4

   The thread Howard mentioned is here <click>.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

2. 
   9619 | Nov 20, 2009 09:15pm | #5

   Howard,
   You asked if it was red or white oak.
   Most newbies can't tell.Many of us have had a run-in with red oak. Its structure is like drinking straws. It just sucks stain and finish up, and some stains and finish "leaks out" in the days after applying it. I once applied Minwax stain to some red oak chairs. It kept "bleeding back" for over two weeks. I learned a big lesson on that project. Maybe a few lessons. I had tested the stain and liked the color, but I hadn't tested the "drinkability" of these red oak chairs. Since then, I have not applied stain to red oak, and I apply finish to it in light coats. I used to stain everything. In the past ten years, I haven't stained much. Have fun.
   Mel Measure your output in smiles per board foot. 

1. 
   forestgirl | Nov 21, 2009 01:01am | #6

   Yep, red oak can be a pain.  When I want to use a Danish oil, I wet-sand.  Also, it's a good idea to start your finishing at a temp you can maintain for a few days.  I've heard of some dismaying experiences where something was finished in a very cool shop, and then the temp goes up dramatically, and the darned thing starts bleeding.  Sheesh, just what ya need!

   I wrote a post on wetsanding with Watco a long time back.  There are as many variations as there are woodworkers, for sure.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

2. 
   lwj2 | Nov 24, 2009 07:17am | #11

   Mel:I built a bookshelf out of red oak years ago, using multiple colours of stain.I laid down a fairly heavy coat of burnt sienna stain, let it sit for about fifteen minutes, then wiped dry, leaving the stain in the pores.I waited about four days for the stain to dry, scuff-sanded with 320, cleaned up and put down two wiped-on coats of clear shellac.Next day, I scuffed it again, laid down my yellow based stain, let it dry, scuffed, wiped on another two coats of shellac, scuffed and laid down (IIRC) four coats of oil finish (1 raw linseed, 3 tung, 11.5 turps and 1/2 Japan drier), letting dry and scuffing between coats.Top coat was to polish with beeswax.Original surface prep was simply hand-planed.It's over ten years old, never had a problem with bleed through. I've renewed the beeswax every few years.Leon

1. 
   9619 | Nov 24, 2009 03:02pm | #12

   Leon,
   The gods must smile upon you.
   You are a lucky woodworker.
   Maybe it was the wax.
   Have fun. Thanks for letting me know.
   MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot. 

1. 
   lwj2 | Nov 24, 2009 05:02pm | #13

   You're welcome, Mel.BTW, if you want to mix stains from oil pigments, that oil formulation is what I use, the variant is the turps. I'll put the pigments into a pint glass measure, add an ounce of raw linseed slowly while stirring, then add three ounces of tung, still stirring. The turps is added to the 15 1/2 ounce level, then the half ounce of Japan drier to make a pint (US measure, for those of y'all across the Pond. The proportions work with any system.).If I want a less intense stain, I cut with turps. More intense, reduce amounts. Keeps about a year in a sealed glass jar. Don't store in plastic.Oil paint pigments can be obtained from art supply stores, the Michael's craft chain and possibly other craft stores. I usually buy the 37 gram tubes and use an entire tube per mix.Have a good Thanksgiving,Leon

2. 
   SteveSchoene | Nov 24, 2009 07:57pm | #14

   What tung are you using, specifically.  And, why use raw linseed oil if you are then going to add Japan drier? 

3. 
   lwj2 | Nov 24, 2009 08:21pm | #15

   100% tung -- I get it from one of the PPG paint distributors here. Woodcraft also carries it.The raw linseed oil suspends the paint pigments a bit better, in my experience. Not enough of a chemist to tell you why. Hence the Japan drier.One of these days I'll get around to trying some of the Tried & True stuff, I developed this formulation prior to T&T being on the market.Have a great Thanksgiving.Leon

4. 
   SteveSchoene | Nov 25, 2009 08:50pm | #19

   Your stain formula ought to work, but a few comments. 

   I've never had problems getting pigment to suspend in BLO, at least that I've worried about.  BLO is just raw linseed with metallic driers, making it not much different that raw linseed with added metallic driers from Japan drier.  It may depend on the pigment.  By the way, the cheapest of the artist's oil paints may contain fillers, including wax, that stiffen them for painting, instead of using as much expensive pigment.  I'd avoid the lowest priced student's grade pigment. 

   I'm not a fan of pure tung oil for much.  In this stain it might be just a tad lighter in shade than the linseed oil, but hardly noticeable.  It also takes a long time to dry.  I'm not all that sure that every product labeled Japan drier contains the specific driers that work with tung oil, so you might find that, if you get Japan drier with a different formulation, that you find your stain taking 3-4 days to dry.  Tung is also quite a bit more expensive than BLO.

   I also tend to want a bit more tenacious binder than you get just with oil, so I usually use a dollop of oil-based varnish instead of all oil.  Less varnish for large projects where I want more time before I have to finish the wiping off process, more if it is small and I am in a hurry. 

    

5. 
   lwj2 | Nov 25, 2009 09:10pm | #20

   Good observations.The oil pigments (paints) I buy are Windsor & Newton, being familiar with their product line and knowing from experience that it's consistent.If I recall my initial research, tung is a tad more durable finish than linseed. Turpentine was chosen because unlike mineral spirits, turps has a small quantity of solids present that help build a finish. Besides, I like the smell of turps. Varsol is, to me, something with which you clean paint brushes.My original idea behind it was to simply see if I could produce a decent oil finish and make stain from scratch. I found I could and so far it's worked for me. I elected to use artists oils rather than the raw materials themselves because of cost, the only supplier I could locate at the time is a German firm who charges dearly for what (I presume) is an excellent product line.Leon

6. 
   SteveSchoene | Nov 26, 2009 12:05am | #21

   I assume the German firm you mention was Kramer pigments.  http://www.kremerpigments.com/ is the web page for the New York version.  They are now further uptown on 29th St., between 8th & 9th. 

   Another source for dry pigments is http://www.oldemill.com with prices that vary with the pigment, but which aren't out of sight.  Powdered pigment do take a bit more doing to encorporate into the oil.  Olde Mill Cabinet Shoppe is a source for many "exotic" finishing materials--such as chemical and natural dye stuffs and natural resins.   

7. 
   lwj2 | Nov 26, 2009 01:19am | #22

   Thanks, Steve, yes, it was Kremer.Leon

8. 
   9619 | Nov 25, 2009 05:36pm | #16

   Leon
   tha k you. I wi try your formula. Am now in a car , driving to Florida.
   MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot. 

9. 
   lwj2 | Nov 25, 2009 05:50pm | #17

   Welcome, Mel.Drive safely, have a great time.Oh -- It'll build to a glossy finish, but takes about eight thin coats to do it.Leon

10. 
    9619 | Nov 25, 2009 08:41pm | #18

    Leon
    my wife is driving.
    MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot. 

11. 
    WillGeorge | Nov 27, 2009 09:36pm | #23

    Maybe it was the wax. 

    Mel no expert but I think the wax  JUST CHANGES THE LIGHT REFLECTION A BIT?

12. 
    9619 | Nov 27, 2009 11:15pm | #24

    EG,
    I think you are right about the wax.
    MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot. 

3. 
   Eef | Nov 21, 2009 01:22am | #7

   still,

   the first time i used watco oil was at the behest of a contractor for whom i built a kitchen. base cabinet was a ten foot face frame affair with the usual four inch belt drawers, frame and panel doors etc. as the contractor was calling all the shots on this one and i did not read the directions on the can, the oil was applied liberally and left to cure, without wipe-down. the next day we were in a situation very similar to yours and what worked was steel wool, thinner and much elbow action. it was a great big pain in the #### and it took a long time.
   eef

4. 
   SteveSchoene | Nov 21, 2009 06:49am | #8

   If you are fortunate, you will have started to remove this while the solvents plus some elbow grease can still do the job.  As Howard pointed out, it the solvents don't do the job sufficiently, then you would have to resort to stripper. 

   Methylene Chloride stripper is most effecient, but it must be used with caution, since it can do bad things to the body when breathed.  Personal protection, and ample ventilation are a must, not just a good idea. 

1. 
   Gretchen | Nov 22, 2009 04:09pm | #9

   AND if you have any unfinished wood, be very careful about getting stripper on it--or get it off immediately with some mineral spirits.Gretchen

5. 
   Jfrostjr | Nov 22, 2009 07:10pm | #10

   My memory is weak on color correction however you might check an article on "color". You will find a discussion on a "color wheel" where the addition of a color on the opposite side of the wheel (I think) could/would reduce the objectionable color you have ended up with.

   Frosty

   “If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert,
   in 5 years there’d be a shortage of sand.”

   Milton Friedman