I built my first wooden plane a la Krenov and I love it!
Now, I would like to make one with a curved sole to be used with a Hock blade with a radius of 5″.
How do I shape the sole?
Thanks,
Eric
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Replies
Eric,
I have had the same experience. I made a Krenov-type block plane and now am planning to make a few more. I would like to make a few that are convex and concave to help me do some linenfold carving.
I can't wait to hear someone who is competent answer your question.
My plan was to grind the blade first, then use that as the template for the sole of the plane. I would scribe it on the front and back of the body of the plane, and then use the table saw to remove waste which is outside the line. Then I planned to use another plane to shape to the line. Anyway, if I don't find better info, that is the plan. Let me know what you come up with.
Secondly, I wanted to make a plane which is rounded both "Front to Back" and "Side to Side". That sounds like a challenge. Might be interesting to use in finishing out the scooping out of a chair seat.
Have fun. Keep in touch.
Mel
Thanks,
Mel
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
IMHO, you have that backwards. You make the plane first, then insert the blade and scribe it to the sole. Then grind it back to the line and sharpen. The bedding angle makes it tough to translate the shape of a blade to the shape of a sole.
Just my opinion, based on making new blades for old planes, not the other way around. ;-)
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Mike,
Thank you very much for the good advice. As I said in my post, I didn't know what to do, so this is what I was going to try unless I got better info. Now I have it. Also, of course, I will do a lot more research before I undertake the making of my next plane. I want Philip to be fearful. :-)Thanks,
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
You're welcome, but I'm not sure exactly how "good" the advice is, having never made a curved-sole plane! I have thought about it a lot though -- it's one of those projects that I've always thought of trying.
To me, making the iron is the simple part. Making a profiled sole that is true along its length is another thing altogether! Just a personal preference, but using a router or shaper for this would be tantamount to "cheating"! ;-)
I've read various articles, info in books, etc. about how to go about this aspect of making the plane. The advice was varied, to say the least. Some suggest making saw kerfs to make "landmarks" at key parts of the profile and carving out the rest to meet the kerfs. My carving skills are not up to that task!
Although I've never seen in in print, what I've noodled out, and what I'd likely try, is to get close by carving, and then make sort of a large scratch stock a foot or two long, with the blade in the center, and fasten it to the bench, blade up. I'd then run the plane blank over it to bring it to its final profile. After the sole profile was worked, I'd then make the cuts for the "works" -- blade, wedge, etc.
No idea if that would work well -- just giving you my thinking to date so you can add it to your own thought process.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Mike,
Again, thank you for the thoughts. I have long believed that it is easier and better for a beginner at something to learn from someone else who has just learned it, rather than from someone who has been doing it for 78 years. You explain things well. I am not worried about "cheating" in making the sole. Anything that works if fair game. I like your idea of a scratch stock in a vice. You are not that far away. If you perfect the technique before I start my next plane, let me know. I'll take you out to Primanti brothers for a cheese steak and fries, and then we'll give Marcou and Holtey a run for their money. MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Hi Mike,
I was reading your post and it gave me a thought on rounding the sole of a wooden plane:
Cut several pieces of ¾" plywood with a U shape for a convex shaped sole and attach these to a 11" long section of plywood. Wrap the top of the fixture with some 1/8" material and affix it atop the previous pieces. Then apply (staple on the sides of the U) sandpaper for final shaping of the sole.
You could possibly do the same for a concave shaped sole by making a saddle type arraingement along the same lines as above.
Then pass the plane across the fixture to smooth out any irregularities.
Just a thought.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
All,
Making Traditional Wooden Planes, by John M. Whelan. Astragal Press, 1996
ISBN 1-879335-69-7
All you want to know about plane making, and more. From smooth plane to molders, plows and fillesters. Even a spokeshave.
Ray
"All you want to know about plane making, and more. From smooth plane to molders, plows and fillesters. Even a spokeshave."
What about making a plane from a croquet ball?
-Steve
sas,
You don't want to know about that. hahaha
Ray
Ray,
Whelan's book goes all the way back to 1996.
Are all of your books that old? Thank you.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Find tree with lots of curvy branches and pick one that has the sole curves you have in mind.
Cut off the branch, remove the bark, rough cut to size.
Dry.
Carve out mouth, fit blade and apply finish of choice.By the way I'm half kidding.:) But it would work.
QC,
You said
"Find tree with lots of curvy branches and pick one that has the sole curves you have in mind. Cut off the branch, remove the bark, rough cut to size. Dry. Carve out mouth, fit blade and apply finish of choice."OK but that sounds like a lot of work.
How about this.
I have an old Queen Anne chair that we don't use anymore. How about if I take one of the legs off, carefully remove the knee, carve out the mouth, fit the blade and apply finish of choice. I can then use the plane to make a Windsor chair. Those are a lot more comfortable than the Queen Annes.Mel
PS I was only half kidding. Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel,
Don't you dare cut off the Queens leg! She might have bugs in her drawers.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Mel,
Sadly, that's one of the newer ones. Some of my books are older than me. He//, some of 'em are older'n you! You're welcome,
Ray
Ray,
I will order the Whelan book.
(even if it was written in a previous century)!
Thank you.
Mel
PS I don't know if you have been keeping up with Madison, but her last message proves she is a fine lady and a great woodworker with a wonderful attitude. She uses a #8, and I was thinking of a measly #7. I gotta change my priorities.Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Here are couple of photos of the wooden plane I think you are considering (double curve). The small compass plane is nice for shaping seats for Windsor chairs.
Dan,
EXCELLENT, dude.
Thanks for the photo.
Do you know of any references (on line or books) on the double curve plane?I suppose that I could learn by trial and error, but there may be an easier way. If you don't have anything else, could you send me the overall measurements on yours, and an estimate of the curvature of the blade.
Thanks,
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Yes to all and I will post more photos. I took a stupid pill this morning and it kicked in when I was taking the shots. I posted 2 of the same angle.
They said Fine Woodworking not fine photography.. right?
Mel,
By the sounds of it, why don't you just chop the bed angle out of the middle of a bocce ball :-)
-Chuck
Chuck,
Not a bocce ball!
That would be a sacrilege!!!! I had my bocce balls blessed by the parish priest.
Maybe a croquet ball.
Mel
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
"Maybe a croquet ball."
That would make for an awfully tight butt fit.
-Steve
"I suppose that I could learn by trial and error, but there may be an easier way. "
I made several compass planes like the one pictured in the message and attached below. I will just describe my technique in general terms and answer questions after my poorly written summary.
Here's what I did to re-learn my geometry and apply it to the business of making a plane:
I used a large straight bit cutter on the router table. I took the curve I wanted and drew a series of arcs with dividers from the curve to establish the radius. Once I had the radius, I made an arm that I could attach to a block of wood(5"long 2"wide x 2" thick) that would become the center of the laminated wooden plane. I fixed a pivot point on the router table X" from the bit(radius) then I ran the piece across the bit after cutting most of the waste with the band saw. Several passes on the bit and you have a dead flat and smooth arc.
Step II: At the end of the arm, I made a fixture to put the block on a tilt as I ran it past the bit. I cut small increments(facets-about 6) on one side of the arc then flipped the block and did the other side of the arc.[20 minutes of gentle cuts]
Very carefully smoothed it out with files scrapers and a little wooden arc tool to check the arcs in the longitudinal and latitudinal axis as I go. Do not get crazy with the final sizing till you get the plane iron in and established. Then go final.
I did this as an exercise in thinking and problem solving. The tool in the early picture is a compass plane from a guy who makes them for Windsor chair builders. The compass comes with a nice Hock blade. Its a nice tool but honestly, I like the Travisher better and I use the tool much more than the compass plane.
Why did I make this jig and make the planes? Horsin' around with some chairmaking students and having some curly maple scraps gave me enough of a push to do it. If you want to skip cutting the arc with the block tilted, you can do it with files and do a good job. Here are some photos of the stuff. I will send more direct to you if you send your email address so I don't have to bore the other readers with this stuff.
Photos might make more sense after you look at the tools and where they are used on a chair. I am working with HS students at the time so I am not near my router table. Sorry
Hope this helps
So long
Edited 10/11/2007 5:05 pm ET by danmart
Dan,
I am in your debt.
What a fantastic job! Your description is excellent, and the photos bring it all to life. Of course, your statement that you use the travisher more is an eye opener. I enjoy tool making, but I like to end up with one that is useful. I will also look into travishers. Right now, my brain is fried with thinking about the plane. I am going to get the book that Ray Pine gave, by Whelan. I have printed out your message. When I am ready, I'll get back to you with further questions.I really appreciate the time and effort you put into your message. I wouldn't mind "apprenticing" in your shop for a while. But I would be the oldest apprentice on record. You have an inquisitive mind and the confidence and capability to bring the inquisitiveness to a real product.MOVE OVER PHILIP AND DEREK -- DAN IS IN TOWN!
Thank you very much.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel,
Have a look at the first photo in dan's next post, showing the sole of the plane. You will see that the mouth is the same gap right across, which is achieved by the shape of the mortice and well explained in Wheelan's book.
I made my first plane a few years ago (have only made a couple) and sort of made it up as I went along having seen a couple of old woodies. It was curved along its length to cooper some boards for the top of a chest and worked OK, but because I got the mouth wrong it will really only cut well in the middle 2cm of the iron.
Mine is not perfectly symetrical across the width, doesnt seem to matter.
It seems much easier to make the plane first and then the iron. You put the iron blank in and mark the sole shape with a fine alcohol pen like they used for overhead projectors (those pens are one of the most usefull things in my shop for any metal work) Then you just grind a 90* to that line, grind a bevel and hone - easy.
dave
Dave,
Thank you for the suggestions. I have learned a lot here. Quite a surprise. This thread was started by Eric. I answered him, and then I got a bunch of GREAT responses. I apologize to Eric for looking like I hijacked his thread. It was unintentional. However, the information has been so good, that I haven't held back.I appreciate your idea on the alcohol pen. After you say it, it becomes obvious. I found Whelan's book on Amazon, but I'll probably order it from Tools for Working Wood. Joel is a good guy, and I need a few other things that he sells. I am afraid that if I visited his store, I would have to take out a second mortgage on the house.I noticed the way the iron fit in the mouth in Dan's photo. Very nice. Looks to me that when it comes to toolmaking, he is up there with Derek, Mike and Philip. VERY FINE WORK.I appreciate your help.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel,No problem for hijacking the thread!
i actually came up with an idea. Once the rough shape is set using whatever way to remove most of the waste. I plan to use the table saw to cut a cove in a piece of scrap wood and then glue sandpaper inside the cove to finish the sole. I found a 5" radius blade on Hock's web-site.
That should match the cove I can make with a 10" diameter blade on the table saw.
The only problem is the fact that I will have to run the peice of wood perpendicular to the blade for the final pas otherwise the shape is not going to be perfectly cylindrical.
What d you think?
Eric,
Thank you for asking my opinion on your plan to shape the sole of your plane. You are giving me far more credit than I am worth. I am the guy who wrote down that I planned to make the blade first, and then the sole. Luckily, a bunch of people let me know that was backwards. My guess is that you will get feedback from some of the pros. I plan to buy the Whelan book that Ray Pine recommended. Then make a hollow and a round from his directions, and then make a compass plane using the info that we got yesterday from Dan and Dave.Of course, that item about the travisher that came up yesterday was interesting. For a Windsor Chair seat, maybe the travisher would be more effective than the compass plane? I will do some reading.I will keep this thread bookmarked, and keep in touch with you. Your plane will be built first, and I'd like to learn from your experience.Two nights ago I took a BIG old Eastlake-type mirror on chest into the shop. My wife wants it to be made ready for use. It is not in good shape and needs considerable repair. Actually it needs to have past repairs removed. The chest is wobbly and someone installed about 20 L brackets to strengthen it. It needs to be taken apart and reglued (and more). So it will be a while before I get that out of my shop.I will continue to monitor this. I hope you get feedback on the method you just described. Let's keep in touch on this project.
Thank you.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
http://www.windsorchairresources.com/
Mel
I forgot to include this chair site as a reference for compass planes and travishers. As I said earlier, I use the travisher to shape seats far more than the compass plane-- that's choice not gospel. After using the tool from Jim Wright, I wanted a tighter radius. Building the wooden "buckhorn" was easy - heating and bending the blades he sells at his pre-determined radius is another thing.
In the windsor world there are lots of great ideas and discussions on the ways to shape seats, turn legs, split wood ... on and on. Its useful outside the chair world. Take a look.
From my reading, I was thinking you wanted a COMPOUND CURVED compass plane. They are the trickiest to make. Straight convex and concave planes are much easier to make and have their own unique application. Its nice to have the lot.
There are lots of tool makers in small shops featured on the site that make really fine tools at what I think are fair prices. Take a look and send some feedback.
Dan
Dan,
Again, thank you for even more information. I was aware of the website you mentioned on Windsor Chair resources. Interesting place.So here is a story - My wife and I were at the Waterford, VA Arts and Crafts festival last weekend. We saw Ray Pine there. I believe it was his 31st year at this FANTASTIC juried show and sale. Not many pieces of furniture there for less than $1000. Well, there were about four or five Windsor Chair makers. One of them, whose name is on an info sheet on my bureau at home, does really interesting and different windsor chairs. They are "dramatic", not too dramatic, but very nice. We had seen the guy there last year as well. My wife said something that I didn't expect. I have never taken one of those 1-week courses offered by so many woodworkers and schools. She said, "Why don't you take this guy's one week Windsor Chair course. It cost the same as buying one of his chairs?" I was blown over by this idea from my wife. She just suggested that I spend $950 plus the cost of transportation, etc. She pointed out that he provides sleeping quarters and three meals a day for the week, and it is included in the $950. Well, I am thinking about it. I don't part with $950 without a lot of thought. That would buy a few Lie Nielsens and a bunch of Pfeil gouges, and still have enough left over for a pile of wenge and bocote. But my interest in trying some chairmaking has gone way up. I told Ray that I have stayed away from that because it seems intimidating. I have a hard enough time getting my 90 deg. angles right. His response, "Aw, just jump in and do it." So I am getting close. Your help in planemaking and ideas on travishers is excellent and well timed and much appreciated.
Thank you very much.
MelPS I did tell someone else, that my plane making plans have been to make some hollows and rounds for use in doing linenfold carvings. But when I saw that double-curved bottom on the photo of the plane you put up, I was amazed. That looks like the ultimate challenge in wood plane making. I am about to retire at the end of the year, and I have big plans. I hope I can bring them to fruition.Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
"I don't part with $950 without a lot of thought. That would buy a few Lie Nielsens and a bunch of Pfeil gouges, and still have enough left over for a pile of wenge and bocote."
When I read this, I was reminded of an odd phenomenon that I have noticed. I decided to take up playing guitar at the ripe old age of 53. So I got a $300 guitar and started taking lessons and practicing an hour a day. When meeting others interested guitar in a similar age range, I was struck by the number of them who owned multi-thousand dollar guitars, like vintage Martins, but didn't want to invest in lessons or practice. They all lamented that they couldn't play as well as they would like. After a few years of lessons and practice, my $300 guitar sounds better when I play it than a $5,000 Martin in the hands of one of these folks. Hmmm.
Somewhere, deep down, I suspect each of us believes that buying a great guitar (or, substitute "tool" in this case) will make us a great player ("cabinetmaker"), so we won't need to put in the hours of training and practice. My experience is directly contrary. Assuming you have a serviceable guitar (tools), your best investment is in training and practice. No new tool will ever substitute, no matter how fancy. A good technician will outperform a person without training or practice every time, no matter how nice that person's tools may be.
Take the class. I'd be willing to bet that you'll have a ball and get more than your $$$ worth.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Mike,
OK. You talked me into taking the Windsor Chairmaking Class.I like your ideas on learning the guitar. Practice practice practice.In 1975 I met two five string banjo players. I had never seen one or heard one up close. I was blown over by the sound. I did some research to come up with the best banjo I could get WHERE I was not paying anything extra for doo-dads (inlay, etc). I decided it was the Gibson RB250. I wish I had bought a dozen of them. I have this strange obsession that I can learn anything by practicing. I don't need no stinkin teachers. So I bought Peter Wernick's book, and and Earle Scruggs book (he didnt write it), and I taught myself to play. I got some hints and feedback from other players. It is possible I could have learned more or faster with lessons. I don't know. Same with tools. I like Ray Pine's approach. He doesn't collect tools. All his tools are users. That is my approach too. So when I get a tool, I practice practice practice. I get books and DVDs and I talk to people who are good at it. I seem to get by pretty well.But maybe I should break down and take some classes too. I will. Thanks to my wife, and now to you.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Hey, after class, mebbe we could do some pickin'! ;-)
Seriously, if you have fun in chair class (and you will), consider taking a short hop over to Elkins WV next summer for a week of bluegrass banjo at Augusta Heritage Center. Now that's REAL fun! A week-long pickin' party, with world class instructors to show you how it's done.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Mike,
Good idea.
Pickin and grinnin.
What could be better?
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Easy. Add beer!
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Windsor chair building. I don't know who is offering the class you are interested in taking but... I just want to make one plug and stop.
Some guys are better than Earl Scruggs on the banjo but they just can not slow down to show you. They have no slow speed on their meter. You get where I'm going so that's enough.
Chairs: I know a bunch of windsor chairmakers after 25 years. If you want to take a one-on-one course and take the chair home with you, there are 3 instructors I would send you to without any hesitation: Dave Sawyer in Vermont taught Curtis Buchanan in Tennessee who taught Peter Galbert in New York. They are all on the internet for you to check out. I have met them, seen their chairs and watched them teach others how to make a chair. They do not run schools with a room full of guys doing step by step after a demo. The three guys above build the chair with you and you only. You sit on their shaving horse, rive logs with their froe, turn legs and stretchers on their lathe and learn how to glue up a chair correctly(very shrewdly) I might add.
Seeing that you are in Virginia, I think the logistics would work best to see Curtis in Jonesboro TN. Curtis is my first choice for anyone wanting to learn windor chair-building --its your luck to be close by. When I say dedicated: he is the man. Curtis builds chairs just about all the time. He is very knowledgeable, good skills with hand tools and exceptional teaching skills on the lathe(very important) and how to line up the angles.
Finally, I have not seen any chairs(including my own) that are finished to the level of Curtis Buchanan's chairs. He is the guru in my opinion. I have made well over 100 chairs in the last 4 years and I know a good builder when I see one.
Be cautious: there are lots of "institute qualified guys" who didn't know a cupped board from an alligator till they went to a week long school. They pick up the vocabulary and they know the parts like Webster but they all make the same chair -- many with the same parts and not the parts they turned on the lathe. You figure the direction you want.
Look up Sawyer, Buchanan and Galbert. Even if you have made up your mind to take the class from Mr X, go with some additional knowledge before you get there and you'll take off running with the guy. There's a good possibility your guy is a student of one of the above?
One of the earlier messages really said it well. Get the training --its out there. When I started, there was no Windsor instructors and no Kentucky rifle instructors. It was slow and I did some stupid stuff thinking it looked great -- I was clueless. If I was starting out, I wood surely take a course to learn the important details and find out what tools are the real deal. When you get home you know with confidence where you want to go cause you held the tools in your hands and gave them a test.
Its a lot like the first time you saw a guy play Mississippi Sawyer and Soldiers Joy.. Oh that's how they do it!
Dan,
You are a veritable font of information and wisdom. That was a great message. I never much thought about how good this guy is as a teacher. I don't have his name with me. I will look it up and get back to you.You are obviously a good teacher. You pulled all the right strings to make me think (and that is a good thing). I haven't made up my mind yet. There were four or five Windsor Chair makers at the Waterford show, and they were there last year too. It is easy to remember them. Both times, my wife really liked the style this one guy has, and she let me know. When I learn his name and let you know, you may look him up and conclude that he is not "authentic", and you will probably be right. His chairs are a bit different. Anyway, thank you for the tutorial on the best teachers in the field. Armed with that info, I can make a more informed choice. I will send you the name of this guy this weekend.
Thank you very much.
You have gone far beyond being helpful. If I could give a "WOODIE" for outstanding performance in assisting others on Knots" it would go to you.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Dan,
I found the info on the Windsor Chair maker whose work that my wife and I like. It is Joe Graham. He is in Cleveland, Ohio. His website is:http://www.lenoxworkshops.com/I will get more info on him, and see if he studied with the three you mentioned in your last message.Meanwhile, I am anxious to hear what you think of his website.
Thank you.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel,Good luck with your project. I will let you know how it goes.
Eric
Eric, I reckon Mike has that in the right order.
Shape the sole first then the blade and chipbreaker to suit. You can spend a lot of time getting it perfectly accurate, Iguess, but I made my first one in a workshop with Krenov in 1983 and His advice was to just plane it to the desired radius with my trusty Stanley No 4. You can cut a pattern from cardboard to help. When you have the plane working you can fine tune the sole by scraping off any high points.
Its important that the iron is seated nicely and dosen't 'chatter.' That's more important than a scrupulously accurate sole.
I made several krenov type planes, they take some time and are a pleasure to use. Later when I was in a hurry to get on with the job in hand and needed a different radius plane........ I bought a few old wooden block planes from the junk shop, cut them down lenghtwise and shaped the soles to suit the job in hand. Not so beautiful perhaps but a pleasure to use and took only an hour or 2 to set up.
leoffric,Thanks for the advice. I will try to plane the sole as close to the radius of the blade as possible. Good to know a perfect fit is not needed.
I converted an old flea market wooden plane to a curved bottom plane (in both directions) to help dish out a chair seat. First, I found a drafting curve with the righ radius front to back and traced that onto the body. Then I cut that out on the bandsaw. Next, I got out my patternmakers rasp and did the radius by hand. I put the blade in periodically to check my progress, and looked at the sole very carefully as I worked in order to maintain symmetry.
After the shaping was complete, I made a sliding dovetail to put in a new throat out of bubinga. I filed it out until the blade fit with a fairly tight opeing.
The end result worked VERY well for the job at hand, and gave new life to an old plane.
Also, I just re-ground the blade into a radius on my bench grinder (dipping in water frequently to prevent loss of temper) It seems to still hold a nice edge.
Vince,
The idea of getting an old wooden plane cheaply at a flea market and making it into a compass plane is a creative idea. I will try to find a suitable plane and give it a shot.Unfortunately I live in Northern Virginia. When I go to flea markets, antique stores, junk stores, swap meets, garage sales, etc, the wooden planes that I see would cost more than you could sell them for on EBay. It didn't used to be so. So I don't go to such things as often. But if I do run across a suitable old plane at a reasonable price, I will give it a try. I have been reading up on travishers. From what a few folks have said, they are more useful in working on Windsor Chair seats than a plane with a double curved sole. Any thoughts on travishers?Thanks,
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Check out this tool...http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=54888&cat=1,310I think I would buy one of these over a travisher/inshave if I had the $... I haven't worked with either yet, however. The compass plane was my cheap solution... the old wooden plane was actually given to me for free. Took a little extra time but was worth it for a one off chair.
Vince,
you and I are on the same wavelength. I just looked up the Veritas Pullshave from Lee Valley that you gave the webpage for. Very nice, but as you said, expensive.Last night, I bought a similar tool at Woodcraft. You can see it at:
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=4867The Woodcraft "Carvers spoon plane" retails for $20 but I got it much less since I work there. It is similar to the Veritas tool in overall concept, except it doesn't have a second handle on it, and it obviously meant for lighter duty. I sharpened it and tried it out. It works pretty good. I wouldn't want to use mine to do a chair seat, but it will be find for spoons. I hope someone writes in with experience on the Lee Valley Pullshave. A travisher has a longer blade and takes a wider shaving than these two tools. It's blade seems to have a larger radius which is closer to that of the seat of a Windsor chair. Of course, these are just musings. I need to get some real experience to learn the differences. But I am on my way. Please let me know if you learn more. Thank you,
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
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